HD = 8 TRACK TAPE = QUADROPHONIC = AM STEREO

[joshzz]

It's just a matter of time before HD joins a long list of innovative but doomed to fail ideas.

The sad is reality that the money keeps flowing into this tragedy. There is an answer that won't be costly, already works and won't cause all the noise inherent in the IBOC mess. It's called FMeXtra.

The problem is that the big boys, Clear Channel, etc. have put a ton of money into IBOC with the belief that it's got to work...

They can keep throwing money at it all they like but HD as it stands is doomed to ruins or it's doomed to ruin radio altogether...

I've talked with top engineers in radio and NOT one says its workable... joshzz

 

[joshzz]

It's just a matter of time before HD joins a long list of innovative but doomed to fail ideas.

The sad reality is that the money keeps flowing into this tragedy. There is an answer that won't be costly, already works and won't cause all the noise inherent in the IBOC mess. It's called FMeXtra.

The problem is that the big boys, Clear Channel, etc. have put a ton of money into IBOC with the belief that it's got to work...

They can keep throwing money at HD Radio all they like, but HD as it stands is doomed to ruin or it's doomed to ruin radio altogether...

I've talked with top engineers in radio and NOT one says its workable... joshzz

 

[Tom Wells]

In the fall of 1969, my dad asked if we wanted an 8 track or a cassette recorder. At age 8 I already knew 8 track was doomed.
We got a cassette recorder for Christmas, and I'm still collecting material recorded from that recorder.
I'm just as sure HD is a just a bump in the road at age 48. When will it be gone, already?

 

[ddsparxx]

I once had someone tried to get me to trade in a radio-casestte recorder for an 8-track stereo player and knowing that he might be taking an advantage of me, I said no.

 

[Mike Walker]

HD Radio has already lasted longer than Quadraphonic sound.

The first quadraphonic products were introduced around 1972. Quadraphonic technology was virtually gone from the market by 76.

HD Radio has already lasted quite a bit longer than that. Really poor analogy there, guy. And HD is growing, not shrinking.

 

[joshzz]

You are correct in suggesting this. However, the only reason HD has survived this long is because most of the big radio companies have a vested interest in it and are throwing great amounts of money into it. Most people in the US haven't even heard radio with HD.

I believe once the majority of Americans hear what it sounds like they'll revolt either by complaining or abandoning radio. That seems to be the consensus among experts in the know.

josh

 

[HowardMBurgers]

You are correct in suggesting this. However, the only reason HD has survived this long is because most of the big radio companies have a vested interest in it and are throwing great amounts of money into it. Most people in the US haven't even heard radio with HD.

I believe once the majority of Americans hear what it sounds like they'll revolt either by complaining or abandoning radio. That seems to be the consensus among experts in the know.

josh

"Revolt or abandon radio"? That seems a touch on the dramatic side to me.

If HD radio doesn't fly in the long-term, people can still listen to analog (FM), just fine. Those diminishing numbers 55+ still listening to AM will abandon it only because they've passed on.

Even you as a hobbyest, have you "abandoned" radio because of HD? No, I didn't think so. I think you'd agree that a handful of folks on a radio discussion board really wouldn't be considered a "revolt" either.

 

[Savage]

Granted, it's true that a handful of HD detractors on a message board don't amount to much.

HD has a much bigger problem than the hated "naysayers" and, from HD boosters' moral equivalent of Joseph Goebbels, the "DXer"**: the 99.999994% of radio listeners who do the "golden retriever cocked-head" thing whenever you try to talk to them about HD Radio. Typical responses:

"HD Radio? Like, Sirius-XM?"

"I keep hearing those stupid commercials for HD Radio. What the hell is that, anyway?"

"I already get that on my Kraco. Sounds pretty good."

"I was watching the Food Channel in HD last night."

"Oh, yeah. I was in a friend's car that has that HD thing. His radio was skipping like a scratched CD."

And so forth.....

** For any visitor here not familiar with HD-speak, a "DX'er" is defined (by HD boosters) as "anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's interference-protected contour."

 

[HowardMBurgers]

Oh I agree Bob, the radio companies who jumped on the HD bandwagon and invested heavily have completely screwed up the promotion of the product/system. The cryptic messages and unwillingness to promote outside of their own radio stations has cost them valuable first impressions or interest in the product.

Along with that, I think that most didn't come with much of a compelling product to place on ancillary channels, not too mention the "oops what do you mean the secondary channel coverage doesn't go as far as the main signal?"

I also agree that the whole AM-HD is dead in the water. Beyond the interference issue that probably means little to the average consumer, again there was totally no communicated motivation to consumers as to WHY they needed to buy an HD tuner. There are no ancillary channels on AM-HD, which just caused more confusion to those rare individuals who are trying to decipher the cryptic promotional messages.

Many broadcasters thought that they needed HD to go head-to-head with the satellite guys. That was dumb, because the satellite guys had millions, if not billions more in (borrowed) money to throw into promoting their product/service.

 

[KB1OKL]

There is a difference between HD and 8 track players, 8 track players worked. HD radios seem to be stacking up like old can openers everywhere.

 

[landtuna]

There is a difference between HD and 8 track players, 8 track players worked.

Yup. I've still got my almost-30-year-old 8-track player/recorder with Dolby. Not many hours on the old girl though as 8-track cassettes are rather hard to find.

 

[badjef]

** For any visitor here not familiar with HD-speak, a "DX'er" is defined (by HD boosters) as "anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's interference-protected contour."

...and for going under a bridge or around a corner inside of the contour.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Savage]

Comparing HD Radio to 8-track tape is a bit of a fallacy - largely because of revisionist audio history which has unfairly and inaccurately lumped "8-tracks" with "Edsel" and "New Coke." The truth is, 8-track tape was wildly successful. It was merely made obsolete quite rapidly once cassette audio quality was improved to be on a par with the larger tape format moving at twice the playback speed.

It took about ten years for technology to improve so successfully consistent tiny playback head gaps and quality high-speed duplication could make cassettes match the channel separation and bandpass offered by 8-track.

Of course the major drawback of 8-track tape was its endless-loop design. As we all know, there are maybe three or four songs max on an album we actually want to hear, and the rest we could care less about. With 8-tracks, once the novelty of playing your own selections in good-quality stereo in the car wore off, stepping the head selector around and waiting for your favorite song to come up became an annoyance. Cassettes allowed you to fast-forward or rewind conveniently to your favorite selections.

Cassettes were also smaller and cheaper. But in the period from the initial "Lear-Jet" 1965 players to about 1975, 8-tracks ruled. And unlike HD Radio, they were reliable, offered a consistently high-quality listening experience and were "ubiquitous," if you'll excuse the term. That's why you can still buy them today at yard and garage sales.

 

[Tom Wells]

But even in 1969 an 8-year old could hear the hiss and tell that cassettes would be the winner in this particular race.
By 1980 cassette technology could provide a higher frequency response than CDs do today.
So just how weak was the concept? Too narrow a track, tracks changing in the middle of a song, etc.
I was a GREAT concept for full or half track cartridge play at radio stations, but not able to compete in the 8 track mode.
It's one of the few modes I have always avoided due to these drawbacks. Way too much hiss for me even in 1969.

 

[badjef]

8-track, just as Betamax lasted longer than the public was aware. Both formats just took on the commercial market.

8-track became wanted and needed for years in radio and TV.

Betamax took on TV with the Beta I speed and used for years at TV mobile vans and studios.

Quadraphonic came back later on as "Dolby digital" - with the sky's the limit on speakers and channels.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Carmine5]

Betamax took on TV with the Beta I speed and used for years at TV mobile vans and studios.



Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

You must be referring to Betacam oxide which was introduced in 1982. The tape speed of Betacam was about 6X faster than Beta I and used a component color recording system vs. Betamax which used the "color under" technique with composite color information on a sub-carrier much like U-Matic and VHS (although Betamax used an additional pilot color burst which provided more accurate color than VHS). But, yes, stations, production companies and videographers (such as myself at the time) loved the compact size, low tape stock costs and high quality of Betacam and quickly adopted it, despite the limited recording time of 30 min.

But a point I think that is also being missed by this topic's title is that all of these formats worked and worked beautifully (OK, so 8-Track tapes and 4-Track carts were difficult to cue up in terms of finding a favorite song). But they sounded very good. Plus, no station ever had to worry about interference from Quad-FM or AMS. There were no great numbers of listeners complaining because their new radios didn't work reliably or their old ones got suddenly noisy. Instead these formats were either marketplace failures or consumers simply moved on to some other format like the cassette.

c5

 

[Obtuse1]

8-track, just as Betamax lasted longer than the public was aware. Both formats just took on the commercial market.

8-track became wanted and needed for years in radio and TV.

Betamax took on TV with the Beta I speed and used for years at TV mobile vans and studios.

Quadraphonic came back later on as "Dolby digital" - with the sky's the limit on speakers and channels.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Also pre-recorded 8 tracks were available and being manufactured through 1988 (via Columbia House and RCA Music Service).

 

[nd2023]

** For any visitor here not familiar with HD-speak, a "DX'er" is defined (by HD boosters) as "anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's interference-protected contour."

...and for going under a bridge or around a corner inside of the contour.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Actually, an AM DXer is defined as anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's transmitter site.

 

[badjef]

** For any visitor here not familiar with HD-speak, a "DX'er" is defined (by HD boosters) as "anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's interference-protected contour."

...and for going under a bridge or around a corner inside of the contour.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Actually, an AM DXer is defined as anyone listening 3 feet or more outside a station's transmitter site.

...or anywhere outside the parking lot, I'm sure.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I don't consider Quad or AM Stereo failures as they both worked decent from a technical standpoint, and with time, only got better. Third generation AM stereo chips got rid of (Kahn's complaint of) 'platform motion' and even had an "FM stereo style" mix to mono with weak signals! Also, over 14 million AM stereo chips shipped out - far more than the 2 million HD claims, so 7 times the receivers are/were available, so it must be the programming, not the mode of stereo signal. And as others have said, QUAD laid the groundwork for the Dolby surround sound we have today. Actually, the 1972 Quad was probably better than the original Star Wars soundtrack as far as the 2 rear channels and their separation are concerned!

Quadraphonic and C-Quam AM stereo didn't destroy their host signal, or the adjacent stations' signals either.

8-tracks sold like crazy -quality varied greatly, but quicker track access than cassettes at the time of their popularity.

HD is yet to be seen.