HD-AM "Fix" for night at Citadel stations = no fix

[JohnnyElectron]

According to The Leslie Report via RW, iBiquity, Cox and Citadel are getting together to see what can be done so that they can resume night-time AM-HD transmissions; but it appears it is getting them to accept it the way that it is without any changes as noted:
"...When I asked about the nature of a solution, Struble said rather than changing the IBOC system, the answer would be more in “understanding what the issues are and what can be done … with the existing system. It’s really more us supporting their efforts.”..."

In other words, it appears to me that it's 'take AM-HD the way that it is and go away - and don't forget our payment'.

Anybody else see it any differently? WJR and WABC have been off at night for sometime now.

 

[Savage]

Obviously Bob Neil and Martin Stabbert haven't gotten the word:

HD-AM may not be perfect, but "it's what we have now." It's the only solution as the AM audience rapidly shrinks and ages (according to IBOC proponents, the average AM listener today is 4' 9" and 136 years old.) Interference, both co- and adjacent-channel isn't too bad, but even if it's awful, it's still okay, because IBOC is the only solution. People who think otherwise are naysayers. If there are problems, it's the receivers. If it's not the receivers, it's the people who use them and who just won't understand how to use longwire antennas. And the cost of an AM-HD radio isn't really prohibitive when you compare it with similar consumer audio-visual gear, like for example a 60" plasma TV or a full entertainment center crammed with McIntosh components. If anybody thinks tinny and screechy audio on the talk programming heard on 85% of AM-HD stations is hard to listen to, it's the fault of the originating stations for programming satellite delivered talk shows because of additive artifacting. Everyone knows that the stations should have their talk shows Fed Ex'ed to them on unprocessed CD-Rs. If the coverage is spotty and unacceptable it's the fault of the stations for using directional antennas. Or not having enough power to begin with. Or something. And because of listeners for straying too far away from the TX site. HD-AM listeners need to learn how to stay put!

Skywave adjacent-channel interference? It doesn't exist. Well, not much, anyway, except for naysayers like the 150 people who have joined at stopiboc.com. There's a misunderstanding on this because stations need to appreciate that They're Not Entitled To Any Coverage Outside Their NIF, unless you're a 50kw'er throwing deafening IBOC spurs, in which case you get a free pass to do anything you want as long as it's digital. That means you can even invade the NIF of first adjacents, just as long as your iBiquity royalty check clears.

Some of these naysayers will just "never get it." Bob and Martin need to stop being hysterical, anti-IBOC obstructionists and get on board! The IBOC train is leaving the station! Yep! Here we go! Ab-so-tively! Any minute now!! I think it's starting to move....

 

[vsa]

According to The Leslie Report via RW, iBiquity, Cox and Citadel are getting together to see what can be done so that they can resume night-time AM-HD transmissions; but it appears it is getting them to accept it the way that it is without any changes as noted:
"...When I asked about the nature of a solution, Struble said rather than changing the IBOC system, the answer would be more in “understanding what the issues are and what can be done … with the existing system. It’s really more us supporting their efforts.”..."

In other words, it appears to me that it's 'take AM-HD the way that it is and go away - and don't forget our payment'.

Anybody else see it any differently?  WJR and WABC have been off at night for sometime now.

Now we know why Disney sold these AM stations, don't we.

Fortunately, Citadel is not stuck with iBiquity if it wants to go digital in a very big, heavily-promoted way. There is another digital technology that is available. And signal coverage for each station would actually improve, not get worse. It causes NO interference. Also, the list of products that are capable of receiving these digital signals is growing. I've listed links for just 15 of these devices or systems. These products and many more are available right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Sangean-WFR-2...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Revo-Pico-Por...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-13
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Ener...8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-8
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-930-...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-46
http://www.amazon.com/Tangent-Quatt...4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Digital...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/OXX-Digital-I...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-10
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201964&sr=8-31
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-37
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-philips-str.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/01/14/logitech.squeezebox
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/366142-0-0-225-121.html?jumpid=ex_R602_go/mediasmart
http://www.amazon.com/Baracoda-BPHX...lp_edpp_ttl_in?ie=UTF8&qid=1201202050&sr=8-43

Yes. It's called Internet radio. Add dozens of smartphone models, plus every desktop, laptop and handheld computer in the world and you have penetration and reach TODAY, not in 10, 20, 30 or 50 years with HD radio - if ever. Two-thirds of radio listening is done at home and at work. With growing EV-DO penetration, and the advent of WIMAX beginning this year, in-car listening will soon follow.

http://tuner2.blogspot.com/2008/01/success-new-york-to-washington-dc.html

Who needs HD radio? It's like trying to sell pagers in a cellphone world!

 

[clouseau]

Now we know why Disney sold these AM stations, don't we.

Yeah I guess you do. Brilliant take as usual by the Anti folks.

Fortunately, Citadel is not stuck with iBiquity if it wants to go digital in a very big, heavily-promoted way. There is another digital technology that is available. And signal coverage for each station would actually improve, not get worse. It causes NO interference. Also, the list of products that are capable of receiving these digital signals is growing. I've listed links for just 15 of these devices or systems. These products and many more are available right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Sangean-WFR-2...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Revo-Pico-Por...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-13
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Ener...8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-8
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-930-...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-46
http://www.amazon.com/Tangent-Quatt...4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Digital...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/OXX-Digital-I...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-10
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201964&sr=8-31
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-37
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-philips-str.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/01/14/logitech.squeezebox
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/366142-0-0-225-121.html?jumpid=ex_R602_go/mediasmart
http://www.amazon.com/Baracoda-BPHX...lp_edpp_ttl_in?ie=UTF8&qid=1201202050&sr=8-43

Yes. It's called Internet radio.

Now if It just worked in my breakroom at the office or on the kitchen counter at home or in the car when Idrive or when I ride the lawnmower out back or in the stands of a footbal game, we might have something. Right now, for Me, It does NONE of these.

Heck of a product.

Clouseau

 

[vsa]

Now we know why Disney sold these AM stations, don't we.

Yeah I guess you do.  Brilliant take as usual by the Anti folks.

Fortunately, Citadel is not stuck with iBiquity if it wants to go digital in a very big, heavily-promoted way. There is another digital technology that is available. And signal coverage for each station would actually improve, not get worse. It causes NO interference. Also, the list of products that are capable of receiving these digital signals is growing. I've listed links for just 15 of these devices or systems. These products and many more are available right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Sangean-WFR-2...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Revo-Pico-Por...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-13
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Roku-SoundBri...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Ener...8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-8
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-930-...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-46
http://www.amazon.com/Tangent-Quatt...4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Digital...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/OXX-Digital-I...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201664&sr=8-10
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201201964&sr=8-31
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-Wireles...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201202050&sr=8-37
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-philips-str.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/01/14/logitech.squeezebox
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/366142-0-0-225-121.html?jumpid=ex_R602_go/mediasmart
http://www.amazon.com/Baracoda-BPHX...lp_edpp_ttl_in?ie=UTF8&qid=1201202050&sr=8-43

Yes. It's called Internet radio.

Yes. It's called Internet radio. Add dozens of smartphone models, plus every desktop, laptop and handheld computer in the world and you have penetration and reach TODAY, not in 10, 20, 30 or 50 years with HD radio - if ever. Two-thirds of radio listening is done at home and at work. With growing EV-DO penetration, and the advent of WIMAX beginning this year, in-car listening will soon follow.

http://tuner2.blogspot.com/2008/01/success-new-york-to-washington-dc.html

Who needs HD radio? It's like trying to sell pagers in a cellphone world!

Now if It just worked in my breakroom at the office or on the kitchen counter at home or in the car when Idrive or when I ride the lawnmower out back or in the stands of a footbal game, we might have something.  Right now, for Me,  It does NONE of these.

Heck of a product. 

Clouseau

Tell me what model of HD radio do you use to receive digital broadcasts while riding your lawnmower or while sitting in the stands of a football game? Or for that matter while taking a walk or sunbathing at the beach? I can or do enjoy Internet radio at any and all of the locations you listed and more - and over longer distances - worldwide. Tens of millions of people do as I do weekly if not daily. How many listen to HD radio, if they can even get the signal within a few miles of the transmitter?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Skywave adjacent-channel interference? It doesn't exist. Well, not much, anyway, except for naysayers like the 150 people who have joined at stopiboc.com. There's a misunderstanding on this because

You have GOT to be kidding! All you have to do is turn on a radio to an adjacent channel within 1000 miles of these 50 kW blowtorches running HD, and you can hear the sideband interference! I live in the DFW metroplex. WOAI IBOC sidebands are very audible over KFXR 1190 - within its protected countours - at night. Even more dramatic, I have never heard a trace of WOR analog in the DFW metroplex. But their sidebands are very audible over WGN - when I throw a null at NY, the sideband on WGN disappears! Don't try to tell me that there is no skywave adjacent channel interference, because I have personally heard it, and so have a lot of other people who aren't even aware of the stopiboc website.

 

[hipporadio]

OH STOP-IT “Inspector”... Nighttime IBOC CANNOT BE “FIXED”... May I ask you to recall the late-70s/early-80s Imperial Margarine commercials that posed the question: “You CAN’T fool Mother Nature”... It’s as SIMPLE as that!

WHY would you possibly be driven to believe that transmitting TWO additional OFF-CHANNEL carriers during nighttime propagation conditions could possibly enhance the “AM Experience” while mitigating the biggest enemy of AM reception—interference? Do you REALLY believe that the so-called “benefits” available to ONE-PERCENT transcend the reception realities of the remaining NINETY-NINE PERCENT? I’m scratching my head here? ...And I’m itching that scalp as I consider the considerable REDUCTION in ANALOG audio quality afforded NON-HD listeners in the overwhelming MAJORITY... SO-FEW can benefit from this destructive, defective, and MINIMAL quality advances offered by this doomed technology... WHY offer it?

I am BEGGING to understand a cogent defense of IBOC technology on the AM band... I just CAN’T fathom it! There IS NO rational defense for it! It is very-simply—a violation of nature AND good engineering practice... It is a sad byproduct of the corporate radio malaise that has reduced this industry to a fraction of its original self.

 

[Play Freebird]

Hey, Hip -- and the resta you naysayers -- Put a cork in it!

Dissent will not be tolerated! Read this:

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.10299.html

Well, I suppose Mr. Poole is trying to be a loyal employee who faithfully preaches the company line, but I'm just stunned that he could be so misled as to believe HD offers a tangible benefit to "daytimers out there with less than 100 watts of nighttime power."

I suggest he review the 300+ comments recently filed in the AM translator rulemaking. If in-band HD AM offered any realistic solution, why then do all of these daytime AM station owners (including myself) want FM translators?

 

[Chuck]

Now if It just worked in my breakroom at the office or on the kitchen counter at home or in the car when Idrive or when I ride the lawnmower out back or in the stands of a footbal game, we might have something. Right now, for Me, It does NONE of these.

Heck of a product.

Clouseau

Wow! I thought I lived at "the edge of the universe." It is working quite well for me, and I'm in my kitchen.

 

[LinoNYC]

Obviously Bob Neil and Martin Stabbert haven't gotten the word:

HD-AM may not be perfect, but "it's what we have now." It's the only solution as the AM audience rapidly shrinks and ages (according to IBOC proponents, the average AM listener today is 4' 9" and 136 years old.) Interference, both co- and adjacent-channel isn't too bad, but even if it's awful, it's still okay, because IBOC is the only solution. People who think otherwise are naysayers. If there are problems, it's the receivers. If it's not the receivers, it's the people who use them and who just won't understand how to use longwire antennas. And the cost of an AM-HD radio isn't really prohibitive when you compare it with similar consumer audio-visual gear, like for example a 60" plasma TV or a full entertainment center crammed with McIntosh components. If anybody thinks tinny and screechy audio on the talk programming heard on 85% of AM-HD stations is hard to listen to, it's the fault of the originating stations for programming satellite delivered talk shows because of additive artifacting. Everyone knows that the stations should have their talk shows Fed Ex'ed to them on unprocessed CD-Rs. If the coverage is spotty and unacceptable it's the fault of the stations for using directional antennas. Or not having enough power to begin with. Or something. And because of listeners for straying too far away from the TX site. HD-AM listeners need to learn how to stay put!

Skywave adjacent-channel interference? It doesn't exist. Well, not much, anyway, except for naysayers like the 150 people who have joined at stopiboc.com. There's a misunderstanding on this because stations need to appreciate that They're Not Entitled To Any Coverage Outside Their NIF, unless you're a 50kw'er throwing deafening IBOC spurs, in which case you get a free pass to do anything you want as long as it's digital. That means you can even invade the NIF of first adjacents, just as long as your iBiquity royalty check clears.

Some of these naysayers will just "never get it." Bob and Martin need to stop being hysterical, anti-IBOC obstructionists and get on board! The IBOC train is leaving the station! Yep! Here we go! Ab-so-tively! Any minute now!! I think it's starting to move....

HD-AM may not be perfect, but "it's what we have now." It's the only solution as the AM audience rapidly shrinks and ages (according to IBOC proponents, the average AM listener today is 4' 9" and 136 years old.)

Well, 'ol BS is in fine form today. fact is that iboc is the only solution on the plate at this point. Since your days at WWDJ speeding-up records and cranking the e-q, nothing has worked to stop the erosion of listeners for AM and the near total absence of any future listeners.

Over thirty years and two generations now have little or no use for AM Mr Savage.

I know, you can make a buck by simply selling your time but that is alot like opening a restaurant that has only it's staff as customers.

We are alittle over four months into the "armageddon" of 24hr operation...where is that great public outcry! Where are the lawsuits that even I thought would have begun to materalize by now?

For the public's side there are two possible reasons for this silence:

1) It ain't so bad.

2) More ominously, they don't care.


Personal prediction; Cox and Citadel will eventually resume 24hr on most of their properties and other AM's that have adequate nightime power will follow suit.

You may ridicule all you wish but this admittedly flawed system is AM's last shot at future viability.

Lino

 

[Savage]

Thanks, Lino! "The ONLY solution for AM is IBOC." Ahhh, there's nothing like the smell of a little dogma in the morning.

Hey, Bruce - I WAS kidding! I was just parroting the pro-IBOC talking points, as are frequently (and tiresomely) chanted by the system's proponents - apparently all of whom post here (at last count, about ten.)

Meanwhile: we must observe, as even-handedly as possible, that Citadel and Cox will do what they will do irrespective of what pundits say from either side of the controversy. My personal conviction is, don't look for any change in stance for either Citadel or Cox any time soon. On the one hand Struble/iBiquity are essentially saying "we're done with HD-AM, it is what it is, and don't look for any technical mods. You just 'need to understand' HD better." On the other hand WABC isn't interested in losing much of its commuter audience from Long Island and the Poconos to critical hours IBOC noise from its co-owned adjacents, and WSB needs its suburban listeners in Atlanta....so I seriously doubt that Martin Stabbert is going to overrule himself and re-implement IBOC at night. From what I hear Bob Neil just thinks IBOC is stupid on all counts.

And - Clear Channel - who weighed in on the FCC First Report And Order on IBOC opining that IBOC stations should reduce digital carrier levels 6db @ night to mitigate adjacent-channel problems, but was overruled by the likes of Buckley and CBS - has shut off IBOC at night on WRVA because the sidebands were wiping out WDFN's 9-tower 10kw in Detroit.

C'est la guerre. Gotta scoot and get back to "speeding up records."

 

[clouseau]

OH STOP-IT “Inspector”... Nighttime IBOC CANNOT BE “FIXED”... May I ask you to recall the late-70s/early-80s Imperial Margarine commercials that posed the question: “You CAN’T fool Mother Nature”... It’s as SIMPLE as that!

Hippo. You're going over the edge my friend. Aside from a remark about interent radios, all I have posted on this topic is the following response. The comment and response are below.

Now we know why Disney sold these AM stations, don't we.

Yeah I guess you do. Brilliant take as usual by the Anti folks.

Maybe we really should ban HD Radio! It seems to make the detractors insane.

Clouseau.

 

[hipporadio]

Clouseau, YES, I’ll admit to “going over the edge” in this forum! There is no-doubt that you are a consummate professional that wishes-only to present and market “radio” in its BEST LIGHT! I don’t doubt that for a moment! I’m sure we could “throw-down some brews” and enjoy each others company for many hours discussing radio trivia... You are THE BEST HD protagonist on this board and I RESPECT YOU! Interestingly, we may just AGREE on MORE than we dispute.

OK... Can we come to a “peace treaty” and agree TO BAN HD on AM while allowing the marketplace to settle the FM option? ...I can easily “go there”. I have NO OPPOSITION to a migration to digital delivery in the radio biz. I just despise iBiquity’s model and system. It is doomed to FAIL, and the prerequisite proof at this stage is overwhelming.

 

[dbdigital]

According to The Leslie Report via RW, iBiquity, Cox and Citadel are getting together to see what can be done so that they can resume night-time AM-HD transmissions; but it appears it is getting them to accept it the way that it is without any changes as noted:
"...When I asked about the nature of a solution, Struble said rather than changing the IBOC system, the answer would be more in “understanding what the issues are and what can be done … with the existing system. It’s really more us supporting their efforts.”..."

In other words, it appears to me that it's 'take AM-HD the way that it is and go away - and don't forget our payment'.

Anybody else see it any differently? WJR and WABC have been off at night for sometime now.

These are car salesman weasel words. "Sure we sold you a lemon but we'll work it out...and, no, you can't return it. And be sure you keep making those payments or we'll ruin your credit."

Ibiquity is so used to government hand holding and "favors" that it wouldn't surprise me if they get the FCC involved once again to make some crazy ruling on HD-AM without fixing the technology.

How about allowing AM stations the option to broadcast digital-only at night, losing the sidebands in the process? Sounds dumb but this is the iBiquity/FCC/NAB unholy alliance we're talking about.

db

 

[clouseau]

Clouseau, YES, I’ll admit to “going over the edge” in this forum! There is no-doubt that you are a consummate professional that wishes-only to present and market “radio” in its BEST LIGHT! I don’t doubt that for a moment! I’m sure we could “throw-down some brews” and enjoy each others company for many hours discussing radio trivia... You are THE BEST HD protagonist on this board and I RESPECT YOU! Interestingly, we may just AGREE on MORE than we dispute.

OK... Can we come to a “peace treaty” and agree TO BAN HD on AM while allowing the marketplace to settle the FM option? ...I can easily “go there”. I have NO OPPOSITION to a migration to digital delivery in the radio biz. I just despise iBiquity’s model and system. It is doomed to FAIL, and the prerequisite proof at this stage is overwhelming.

I'm not really in any position to come to a peace traty with anyone. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not an IIbiquity emplayee or shill. Just a guy who works i radio.

I think we agree that all but the most radical folks see FM HD as basically a "no real problem" Technology.

AS for AM, HD does improve the sound. A lot. It has the potential to allow AM to become competitive in formats other than niche or talk. I do not particularly like it implementation, however it does have several positive points.

1) It's along for the ride in every HDFM radio. Don't know how long that will last, but for now, it is. If we were to continue to "Roll to HD" theoretcally in 10-15 years, it might make sense to go to All Digital on AM. I think we would agree all Digital on AM would probably work better than the hybrid. (Ditto FM actually).

2) I improves HD fidelity on AM today. Range is not as great as analog, but there IS a sound quality improvement.

3) It's approved. Nothing else is. And I believe it's better than Cam-D Of course I don't know. No one has ever seen a Cam-D radio as best I can tell.

For AM, we're going to need to agree to disagree. Frankly, I would have much prefered to leave it the way it was, Allocate a "Digital only" band to all AM licensees and have a mandatory sunset date for analog. (Not anytime soon). Couple that with the Digital free ride with HDFM and we'd be in a better place. But we aren't.

Actually I wish we'd have converted both bands to Eureka 147 together, but that's a WHOLE other story. Way too much politics there.

Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

Well THANK-YOU Inspector [I think]... I DO NOT oppose digital delivery for radio – I merely oppose the iBiquity model. After TWENTY rewarding years in “radio”—TEN in ownership, I think I can “relate”. Now, I work for a firm that successfully vends its services to the consumer electronics biz. 'Wanna talk about WHY AM performance is inhibited by the Sonys of this world? Interference, plain and simple—they design consumer-oriented AM receivers to minimize it.

Do you really believe the Asians purposely-restrict audio bandwidth because of a “cost” issue—NO! They do it to affect the REAL WORLD complaints from consumers about interference. They purposely-restrict audio bandwidth BECAUSE of the effects of such... Do you really believe they would lessen the audio quality of their products otherwise?

In 2002, Tivoli released a Kloss-inspired table radio to the market... Analog tuned and VERY quality-oriented on AM, yet it suffered from insensitivity at the lower end of the AM band due to it’s small built-in ferrite antenna. Last year, Tivoli re-released that model with an external AM antenna option—THE ONLY reason for this “quiet mod”... At the same time, they lowered I.F. bandwidth on AM... In a communication, they told me it was because of IBOC and the HD AM reality. So now, we have ANALOG AM radios being further “dumed-down” due to the ONE-PERCENT penetration of HD Radio... HOLY COW... Sounds STUPID to me!

 

[Savage]

Some posters think that morphing to all-digital HD-AM will fix the problems? Think again.

Once again the nonnegotiable skywave characteristics of the medium-wave band will frustrate pro-IBOCers. Real-world tests have shown that field strengths of 40 mv/m - EIGHT times what's currently considered "city-grade" on AM - are necessary in most cases for reliable digital decode, in order to overcome skywave interference. This is not a receiver-sensitivity or selectivity issue. This is a reality issue, having everything to do with the non-robustness of the iBiquity digital signal once it's transported out of the test lab.

Even if the most ardent IBOCers "thin the herd" doomsday wishes come true and, say, a third of current AM signals disappear, dropping the aforementioned signal strength requirement for digital to say 25 mv/m there will still be too much skywave noise for HD-AM to work reliably.

 

[Play Freebird]

Once again the nonnegotiable skywave characteristics of the medium-wave band will frustrate pro-IBOCers. Real-world tests have shown that field strengths of 40 mv/m - EIGHT times what's currently considered "city-grade" on AM - are necessary in most cases for reliable digital decode, in order to overcome skywave interference. This is not a receiver-sensitivity or selectivity issue. This is a reality issue, having everything to do with the non-robustness of the iBiquity digital signal once it's transported out of the test lab.

To carry this discussion a bit further...

I'm sure most of you have heard the adage: Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick any two.

Digital modulation works the same way. You are limited to two of the following:

-- Good noise immunity

-- Fast speed (bits per second)

-- Reduced RF bandwidth ('cheap' in terms of spectrum use)

The problem with AM IBOC is that the medium wave band is inherently noisy (lightning, power line buzz, skywave interference at night, etc.) but there's very little RF spectrum available for the adjacent channel sidebands, and there's only so much "crunching" that can be done to the audio signal; the codec bit rate has been reduced about as far as it can go. Hence, the noise immunity suffers.

To bring performance up to a somewhat acceptable level, the RF bandwidth of the digital carriers must be increased (which means shutting off the analog portion of the signal and putting digital in its place) or the power of the digital carriers must be increased to overcome the noise. Neither of these options is practical in-band at this time.

I don't have a problem with allowing AM stations to make a transition to digital, but we need to do it in a higher frequency, less noisy band where adequate RF spectrum is available. Hint: 76-88 MHz

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

I don't have a problem with allowing AM stations to make a transition to digital, but we need to do it in a higher frequency, less noisy band where adequate RF spectrum is available. Hint: 76-88 MHz

We could instead have such stations transmit in analog on that band -- it's basically a good chunk of what the Japanese use as their FM band. Do most people really care if radio is "Digital" vs. analog as long as they get the programming they want?

Coby recently got into the IBOC receiver game. I never would have expected it from the "Ghetto Sony".

http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=pcat&pcat_id=3005

They're actually just rebranded units from Revo:

http://www.revo.co.uk/media/news.php

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

I don't have a problem with allowing AM stations to make a transition to digital, but we need to do it in a higher frequency, less noisy band where adequate RF spectrum is available. Hint: 76-88 MHz

We could instead have such stations transmit in analog on that band -- it's basically a good chunk of what the Japanese use as their FM band. Do most people really care if radio is "Digital" vs. analog as long as they get the programming they want?
Coby recently got into the IBOC receiver game. I never would have expected it from the "Ghetto Sony".
http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=pcat&pcat_id=3005
They're actually just rebranded units from Revo:
http://www.revo.co.uk/media/news.php

I'm with you on this one. When it comes right down to it, people end up making thier decisions based on content, and not necessairily delivery method.

I also would favor a migration of current AM band stations to the soon-to-be former TV Channels 5 & 6, operating in hybrid IBOC mode just as current FM stations do.

This would, in turn, free up the AM band for lower powered community oriented stations operating in a pure digital mode, preferably DRM.

In the interests of diversity, one would hope that the "K-Love" people, and the like wouldn't be allowed an excessive number of these.