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HD/IBOC digital disaster site

If their arguments against HD are as bad as their website, iBiquity has nothing to be worried about.
 
Oh geez... I actually just read some of that crap...

In the 1930s Hitler gave away 9 million AM radios to the German public, all calibrated to one channel. People who listened to forbidden stations such as the BBC were sent to concentration camps. Every single radio blared the Nazi party line, you could not escape it anywhere.

The Effect of the current proposed version of a mandatory Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) format conversion is like the Nazi radio giveaway because it destroys by regulation our ability to receive weaker or more distant signals without replacing that with local competition ... further concentrating power to edit our perceptions of reality (via the media) into the hands of the few.
Click to expand...

I've gotta go make a tin foil hat before I read any more!
 
EasyPeazy said:
If their arguments against HD are as bad as their website, iBiquity has nothing to be worried about.
Click to expand...

I just luv stuff like this, especially when East Bay Express and the Washington Post start calling into question the motives behind HD/IBOC !
 
EasyPeazy said:
Oh geez... I actually just read some of that crap...

In the 1930s Hitler gave away 9 million AM radios to the German public, all calibrated to one channel. People who listened to forbidden stations such as the BBC were sent to concentration camps. Every single radio blared the Nazi party line, you could not escape it anywhere.

The Effect of the current proposed version of a mandatory Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) format conversion is like the Nazi radio giveaway because it destroys by regulation our ability to receive weaker or more distant signals without replacing that with local competition ... further concentrating power to edit our perceptions of reality (via the media) into the hands of the few.
Click to expand...

I've gotta go make a tin foil hat before I read any more!
Click to expand...

I used this example once recently to show how attractive it is to control media and distribution of info via radio.

In the unmentionable example, a totaliatarian state wished to restrict the public's choice of autonomous information.

In the present example, station ownership wishes to restrict listening to your correct market.

The government wishes such a thing as a 37-state AM blowtorch had never existed.

Such autonomy can be detrimental, should an inconvenient or damaging truth find airwaves directly.

It is preferred that everyone should have local distribution from central sources, where the correct position on information
can established for the public's consumption.

The similarity of mode is so similar as to invite comparison.
We should never permit a mode which seems intent on destroying multi-state AM capabilties, a "free infrastructure"
we use in ways you refuse to measure, respect, or consider the value of, whether in times of disaster, or lonesome desert highway.

I respectfully curse the pox you place upon our airwaves, you undertake a formidable challenge in the best of Don Quixote fashion.
You will find the analog-ness of the RF/Maxwellian "ether" you dabble in is intent on squashing digital things out.
Consider the lowly thunderbolt, its DC as a square wave of untold amps, yet its noise on AM falls off well before a good AM skywave.

Let us use the water/wave analogy. See how easy it is to send a wave from my side of the pond to yours?
Yes, because wave motion in water is analogous to "mysterious maxwellian argument substance sometimes called aether" in radio.
Now let us try to move information digitally in the water. Send me over 2 holes and a hump to this side of the pond.

What's that? They round off, fill in and turn into waves?
Have you not heard of slew rate, and calculated the distortion from the difference in speed of propogation
in the antennas versus free space?

Why would a bunch of computer people have any idea these things matter?
Find a picture of a sine wave, a picture of a "magentic hysteresis loop" and consider carefully the implications
of what it is you're attempting to completely disregard.

It will work, just never as well as something in keeping, in harmony, and in kind with natural phenomena.

I again challenge anyone to suggest a system in which "god" or "nature" has given us a digital anything.
It has not, because the efficiency is always too low.

Have wonderful day, and may your problems all be analog.
 
The "motives" behind IBOC? The motive on the part of the FCC was to provide digital radio...without noise and interference and (later) multicasting (a really late arrival...and probably the biggest positive for most listeners). On the part of those who invested, their "motive" is largely the same...there are certainly quicker roads to profit. But PROFIT is also a motive. YIKES! The shame! This is a capitalist society. Profit is the oil that lubricates business. There's nothing sinister about MAKING MONEY. It's a good thing. It is what actually spurs people with ideas to turn them into ACTUAL PRODUCTS. I'm no Gordon Gecko. Hell I'm not even a republican. But if you put profit on a ballot, I'll vote for it!
 
PocketRadio said:
I just luv stuff like this, especially when East Bay Express and the Washington Post start calling into question the motives behind HD/IBOC !
Click to expand...

I love your insistence that opposition by the East Bay Express is significant. This is alternative paper, a weekly, and filled with ads for massages and escorts and GLBT hook-ups. It's lead articles this week are "Raising a Pagan" (including a sidebar about mixed marriages among Christians and witches) and another with the stimulating title of "The Search for the Kryptonite *****" (which I guarantee you is not aimed at cat lovers).
 
Mike Walker said:
The "motives" behind IBOC? The motive on the part of the FCC was to provide digital radio...without noise and interference and (later) multicasting (a really late arrival...and probably the biggest positive for most listeners). On the part of those who invested, their "motive" is largely the same...there are certainly quicker roads to profit. But PROFIT is also a motive. YIKES! The shame! This is a capitalist society. Profit is the oil that lubricates business. There's nothing sinister about MAKING MONEY. It's a good thing. It is what actually spurs people with ideas to turn them into ACTUAL PRODUCTS. I'm no Gordon Gecko. Hell I'm not even a republican. But if you put profit on a ballot, I'll vote for it!
Click to expand...

You know exactly what I am talking about - that the FCC gave away OUR free airwaves to some corporate thugs, that will jam smaller broadcasters into a do-or-die situation.
 
DavidEduardo said:
PocketRadio said:
I just luv stuff like this, especially when East Bay Express and the Washington Post start calling into question the motives behind HD/IBOC !
Click to expand...

I love your insistence that opposition by the East Bay Express is significant. This is alternative paper, a weekly, and filled with ads for massages and escorts and GLBT hook-ups. It's lead articles this week are "Raising a Pagan" (including a sidebar about mixed marriages among Christians and witches) and another with the stimulating title of "The Search for the Kryptonite ------" (which I guarantee you is not aimed at cat lovers).
Click to expand...

Well, that depends how much national exposure the East Bay Express article is getting. ;)
 
Posting this site around (Again) is one of the best things HD supporters could have ever hoped for. It's several years old, and it does a GREAT job illustrating just how "Chicken Little" like, (And out of date) these anti-HD claims really are.

They proudly proclaim "RICHMOND VA MAY LOSE UP TO 20 RADIO STATIONS:"

They then back it up with a chart that shows that "SECOND ADJACENT" HD Radio stations will interfere with each other.

There is another example of how you will lose "First Adjacent" service from 2 stations. Now if you have a radio that is selective enough to receive in this situation don't you think it would be selective enough to reject 2nd Adjacent IBOC?

Feel free to pick a section of the sky that is falling and stick with it.



BY the way, where the stories about how 20 Richmond stations have been jammed off the air (Being 5 years later and all).

Very enlightening site.

Clouseau
 
I dont understand why ya'll say "JAM" on HD Radio, when if you are close to a transmitter anyway, you are going to get just that station even on analog broadcast no digital HD if you use a cheap pocket radio.... I mean come on, that site was a childish site. If anything they could of made it look professional jeeze.
 
PocketRadio, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that Ibiquity was the "last man standing" after a competitive slugfest that lasted more than FIFTEEN YEARS, and that their system represents the cumulative technology of several of the better competing systems. There are limitations, IMPOSED BY THE FCC AT THE START when they refused to allocate any spectrum for digital radio. Lemons. But some of the best and brightest engineers in radio, computers, and psycho-acoustics combined thier efforts to make some pretty impressive lemonade. IT WORKS, which is the most amazing thing...analog and digital co-existing in the SAME spectrum, at the SAME TIME. If you don't think that's a great accomplishment, you just don't understand the technology, or the challenges which were overcome. I've heard various systems through the years at various demonstrations. This one works BETTER than any previously demonstrated (which don't require dismantling of existing services). And thanks to NPR's "Tomorrow Radio" project...at the last minute, IBOC learned a new trick...MULTICASTING.
 
This was an FCC sole-source, non-competitve contract awarded to iBiquity, to the benefit of the HD Radio Alliance corporate thugs - this was a give-away of our free airwaves.
 
PocketRadio said:
Great site - lots of information !
Click to expand...

Yeah, great site. Five years old. They can't get FCC rules correct. They have a list of the FCC commissioners...NONE of whom are still there. They lump HD Radio in with Nazi Germany's "volksempfaenger," the fixed-tuned radio the government gave to citizens as a propaganda medium, which is as ridiculous and stupid a comparison as I've probably ever heard anywhere about anything...and which, as far as I'm concerned, invalidates their entire approach to the problem.

Here's a suggestion for a new and different approach: How about discussing the merits and problems of the tech, instead of dedicating...excuse me, wasting...Internet bandwidth with scare tactics? Did these people attend the Swift Boat Veterans School of Propaganda?
 
It simply isn't true that Ibiquity was the sole contributor. There was USADR, Lucent Technologies, and many others...which dropped by the wayside, or were incorporated into the Ibiquity system over time. It finished with one company standing, but DID NOT START THAT WAY. If you believe it did, they you are WOEFULLY uninformed, and really should speake to an engineer, or to someone who's followed the development of digital radio over the better part of two decades.
 
Mike Walker said:
PocketRadio, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that Ibiquity was the "last man standing" after a competitive slugfest that lasted more than FIFTEEN YEARS, and that their system represents the cumulative technology of several of the better competing systems. There are limitations, IMPOSED BY THE FCC AT THE START when they refused to allocate any spectrum for digital radio. Lemons. But some of the best and brightest engineers in radio, computers, and psycho-acoustics combined thier efforts to make some pretty impressive lemonade. IT WORKS, which is the most amazing thing...analog and digital co-existing in the SAME spectrum, at the SAME TIME. If you don't think that's a great accomplishment, you just don't understand the technology, or the challenges which were overcome. I've heard various systems through the years at various demonstrations. This one works BETTER than any previously demonstrated (which don't require dismantling of existing services). And thanks to NPR's "Tomorrow Radio" project...at the last minute, IBOC learned a new trick...MULTICASTING.
Click to expand...

HD works but you have to have some interesting definitions of "works". I'm actually pro IBOC, but anti IBAC. I have ZERO problems with full digital HD radio, but major problems with the destructive, defective and inferior (to both analog AND full digital) hybrid HD mode the FCC has currently approved. If we're going to do a conversion to digital, why don't we just do it NOW and get it over with? It's this insistence that analog and digital coexist that annoys me, along with the comments from the HD Radio alliance regarding the adjacent channel interference problems that "sacrifices must be made" to convert to digital. If sacrifices must be made, we should sacrifice old radios rather than listening choices (and I realize that lots of stations I consider choices are not legally protected, but the reality is that in practice they are choices).

So let's either do this conversion or walk away from it. I'm all for it, but I want to see analog shutdown completely before anything digital is put on the air. Again, I have no problem replacing all of my receivers - all 15 of them - with HD radios if it means better sound quality, no static, and skywave without analog splatter. But, I believe the conversion to digital should happen overnight and without this hybrid mode, which isn't good for either side because it throws hiss over the existing analog signals and the digital signals must be transmitted so low that the coverage is greatly reduced. Just mandate that ALL receivers contain HD radio and analog capabilities for 5 years, then throw the switch. Anyone who hasn't upgraded by that time either needs to get an HD radio or find something else to listen to. I upgrade my computers every 2-4 years and cell phone every 2-3 years in order to take advantage of the latest technology. I upgraded my TV so that I can receive HDTV broadcasts. Time to upgrade our radios. At least with TV and radio, the upgrade cycle will be a lot longer than it is for computers and phones, which is why I don't have a problem doing it.
 
PocketRadio said:
With no consumer interest in HD Radio, how is this going to happen ?
Click to expand...

Same way as with TV. Mandatory analog sunset. Unlike TV, this one should be set in stone and not delayed. Period. IMO the older generation is obsessed with backward compatibility to the point of hindering progress. The FCC initially wanted HDTV to be backward compatible with NTSC - imagine what THAT would have looked like. Can you imagine what we'd be using to type these posts on if all computers were compatible with the first one ever built? Sometimes you need to acknowledge that the system you developed in the past has limitations that cannot be worked around, and start with a clean slate. There will be much more consumer interest in HDTV once all the analog receivers become paperweights. The same would happen with radio. If you could no longer get your favorite stations on your existing radios, you'd buy new radios. By not making the old ones completely useless, you reduce the rate at which new units are adopted.

I honestly don't care whether we keep analog or go digital, as either of those options is better than sitting on the hybrid fence. I guess I have a slight preference for all digital though. If I have to replace all my receivers, then so be it. But let's get this over with ASAP.
 
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