HD/IBOC FM in Columbus

[Nu_Roo_2]

I notice that Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton each have a lot of FM's broadcasting HD/IBOC (including most of the CC's), while Columbus only has a few. Somehow this doesn't surprise me.

According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of the few local HD FM's, but it is also the only one multicasting. Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they program on it?

http://www.ibiquity.com/cgi-bin/liststations?state=OH<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[tpt]

> According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of the
> few local HD FM's, but it is the only one multicasting.
> Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they
> program on it?
>
And with what would we hear this second program?

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> > According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of
> the
> > few local HD FM's, but it is the only one multicasting.
> > Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they
> > program on it?
> >
> And with what would we hear this second program?

I'm sure there are only a handful of HD radios out there, but they *are* available. E.g.:
>
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-co1MowD2WkB/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=186650&I=113HR100MC&search=hd+radio<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[techie]

> > > According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of
> > the
> > > few local HD FM's, but it is the only one multicasting.
>
> > > Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they
>
> > > program on it?
> > >
> > And with what would we hear this second program?
>
> I'm sure there are only a handful of HD radios out there,
> but they *are* available. E.g.:
> >
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-co1MowD2Wk> B/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=186650&I=113HR100MC&search=hd+radio
>

Only $400 so I can hear the same old crap in "HD".

I got a whole set of Sirius gear (Tuner, car dock, home dock, and boombox) for less than that.

 

[CMHDave]

>
> Only $400 so I can hear the same old crap in "HD".
>
> I got a whole set of Sirius gear (Tuner, car dock, home
> dock, and boombox) for less than that.
>

Yea it makes me laugh that radio stations jumped on board with this when there are no cost-effective tuners available to the general public when there are $50 Sirius tuners out there that offer a whole lot more variety (for a monthly fee of course). I suppose if I were confident that HD Radio was here to stay, I would be more willing to spend the $$$.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> >
> > Only $400 so I can hear the same old crap in "HD".
> >
> > I got a whole set of Sirius gear (Tuner, car dock, home
> > dock, and boombox) for less than that.
> >
>
> Yea it makes me laugh that radio stations jumped on board
> with this when there are no cost-effective tuners available
> to the general public when there are $50 Sirius tuners out
> there that offer a whole lot more variety (for a monthly fee
> of course). I suppose if I were confident that HD Radio was
> here to stay, I would be more willing to spend the $$$.
>

I'm sure the costs will come WAAAAY down within a year, whether HD Radio catches on or not. The big test will be the degree to which auto manufacturers can be convinced to offer(and push) HD radios.<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[gr8oldies]

There has to be programming out there for there even to be a demand for HD.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> There has to be programming out there for there even to be a
> demand for HD.

Are you talking about multicasting?

If not, note that there sre tons of FMs nationally broadcasting in HD, and the number continues to surge. Thus far, Columbus's paucity of HD FM's is the exception rather than the norm for a market this size.

I was impressed by a review in CNET of a Yamaha receiver, in which the reviewer was shocked at how superior HD-FM sounded compared to XM and Sirius, including in terms of stereo separation (a biggie for me). He said it performed great even at low signal strength, another good sign.

If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service; and automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may be marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come down.

Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[xmusicmatt]

> If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service; and
> automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may be
> marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come down.
>
>
> Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
>

If prices come down and the content is there, I think it has the ablity to take off, but no one is is going to bite on HD radio when they cost 300-500 a piece.<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>

 

[CMHDave]

> > If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> > *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service; and
> > automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may
> be
> > marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come
> down.
> >
> >
> > Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
> >
>
> If prices come down and the content is there, I think it has
> the ablity to take off, but no one is is going to bite on HD
> radio when they cost 300-500 a piece.
>

Yea it's too bad too because I am very intrigued but HD's potential. Sadly I can't justify the expense as it stands and the only way I see myself owning one is if I buy a new car with it already installed.

I think another potential pitfall that HD faces is iBiquity being the sole "governing body" selling the technology. What it amounts to is a proprietary format (from a technological standpoint). DVD player makers don't have to pay anyone for the ability to generate a unit to play DVDs. Same is true for CDs, MP3s, etc. The price of licensing the technology has to be trickling down to the consumer. I think if *anyone* could make an HD radio without having to pay iBiquity a licensing fee, the competition would REALLY heat up and prices would come WAY down.

I can sit here and name dozens of properitary formats of various sorts failed miserably and I can't come up with many (if any) that lived a long healthy life. I know iBiquity needs to make their money somehow but I think it's dangerous for it's long term health.

 

[CMHDave]

> I notice that Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton each have a
> lot of FM's broadcasting HD/IBOC (including most of the
> CC's), while Columbus only has a few. Somehow this doesn't
> surprise me.
>
> According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of the
> few local HD FM's, but it is also the only one multicasting.
> Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they
> program on it?
>
> http://www.ibiquity.com/cgi-bin/liststations?state=OH
>

I have been trying to find anything about this online with nothing yet except this from the official WOSU website FAQ:

"Digital TV will be able to provide more than one channel at a time (multicasting). How about digital radio?

National Public Radio is among the industry leaders developing what's being called "Tomorrow Radio," an extension of the HD Radio™ technology that would allow FM stations to offer at least two distinct program "channels" simultaneously. For example, WOSU-FM could offer classical music all day, every day on our primary digital channel. At the same time, for example, we might offer delayed broadcasts of some WOSU-AM news and talk programs such as Morning Edition, All Things Considered, Open Line and Car Talk, along with new programs and music in digital stereo on the second channel. Additional channels or data services could also provide highly specialized programming, traffic, or weather information. WOSU-FM is requesting permission from the FCC to be only the fifth station to test these new services, as we explore new ways of serving you."

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> > I notice that Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton each have a
>
> > lot of FM's broadcasting HD/IBOC (including most of the
> > CC's), while Columbus only has a few. Somehow this
> doesn't
> > surprise me.
> >
> > According to the link below, WOSU-FM is not only one of
> the
> > few local HD FM's, but it is also the only one
> multicasting.
> > Anyone heard OSU's second channel, and/or know what they
> > program on it?
> >
> > http://www.ibiquity.com/cgi-bin/liststations?state=OH
> >
>
> I have been trying to find anything about this online with
> nothing yet except this from the official WOSU website FAQ:

> <SNIP> "...WOSU-FM is requesting permission
> from the FCC to be only the fifth station to test these new
> services, as we explore new ways of serving you."
>
If their current FAQ is that inaccurate, it makes me wonder if WOSU-FM is really multicasting at all. According to iBiquity's website, there are already five stations just in *Ohio* (let alone the whole U.S.) that are already multicasting. <P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> > > If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> > > *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service;
> and
> > > automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may
>
> > be
> > > marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come
> > down.
> > >
> > >
> > > Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
> > >
> >
> > If prices come down and the content is there, I think it
> has
> > the ablity to take off, but no one is is going to bite on
> HD
> > radio when they cost 300-500 a piece.
> >
>
> Yea it's too bad too because I am very intrigued but HD's
> potential. Sadly I can't justify the expense as it stands
> and the only way I see myself owning one is if I buy a new
> car with it already installed.
>
> I think another potential pitfall that HD faces is iBiquity
> being the sole "governing body" selling the technology.
> What it amounts to is a proprietary format (from a
> technological standpoint). DVD player makers don't have to
> pay anyone for the ability to generate a unit to play DVDs.
> Same is true for CDs, MP3s, etc. The price of licensing the
> technology has to be trickling down to the consumer. I
> think if *anyone* could make an HD radio without having to
> pay iBiquity a licensing fee, the competition would REALLY
> heat up and prices would come WAY down.
>
> I can sit here and name dozens of properitary formats of
> various sorts failed miserably and I can't come up with many
> (if any) that lived a long healthy life. I know iBiquity
> needs to make their money somehow but I think it's dangerous
> for it's long term health.

Yeah. reminds me of a lesson from the VHS vs. Beta wars in videotape. Unlike Beta developer Sony, VHS developer JVC decided to sacrifice some earnings by sharing its VHS technology with other manufacturers. This gave VHS the critical mass to open up competition and blow Beta off the map. I know that's not completely analagous, but I think it fits with your observation and demonstrates how iBiquity may be headed down the wrong road (and dragging free radio with it) by keeping tight reins on a technology whose only real chance for success is to make itself known and readily accessible to the mass audience.

Even their name suggests the wrong attitude: "I"-Biquity when it should be "You"-Biquity/"U"-Biquity.<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[knowbetter]

> Yeah. reminds me of a lesson from the VHS vs. Beta wars in
> videotape. Unlike Beta developer Sony, VHS developer JVC
> decided to sacrifice some earnings by sharing its VHS
> technology with other manufacturers. This gave VHS the
> critical mass to open up competition and blow Beta off the
> map. I know that's not completely analagous, but I think it
> fits with your observation and demonstrates how iBiquity may
> be headed down the wrong road (and dragging free radio with
> it) by keeping tight reins on a technology whose only real
> chance for success is to make itself known and readily
> accessible to the mass audience.
>
> Even their name suggests the wrong attitude: "I"-Biquity
> when it should be "You"-Biquity/"U"-Biquity.
>

maybe the are owned by the sattelite services...sorta like the starguide folks, who bought the algorthm that everyone was using, then shut it off, forcing everyone to go with starguide.

(silly i know, but welcome to american business)

 

[CMHDave]

> If their current FAQ is that inaccurate, it makes me wonder
> if WOSU-FM is really multicasting at all. According to
> iBiquity's website, there are already five stations just in
> *Ohio* (let alone the whole U.S.) that are already
> multicasting.
>

That was my thinking too. I read somewhere else (on another NPR website I believe) that WOSU was in the process of getting the proper permission from the FCC to multicast but of course gave no date on that document so it could be even older than the official website FAQ. I didn't know the FCC had to give permission to multicast since the multicast all gets jammed into the same digital bandwidth. Could've been dumbed down for the layman... who knows.

 

[xmtrucker]

> > Yeah. reminds me of a lesson from the VHS vs. Beta wars in
>
> > videotape.

I think i saw this movie in the '80's. The name.."AM Stereo"!!

Ok..how many out there actually have a AM Stero Receiver??

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> > > Yeah. reminds me of a lesson from the VHS vs. Beta wars
> in
> >
> > > videotape.
>
> I think i saw this movie in the '80's. The name.."AM
> Stereo"!!
>
> Ok..how many out there actually have a AM Stero Receiver??
>

AM Stereo Receivers were standard in some Chryslers about ten years ago. I had one, when I made the never-again mistake of buying a Chrysler. I'd wager the vast majority of owners didn't even realize their cars were equipped with that (or cared...). I wonder if any car manufacturers still offer AM Stereo...I tend to doubt it.

The one good thing I could say about my AM stereo radio is that it wasn't engineered to start fading to mono as soon as there was a tiny, insignificant drop in signal strength, the way most car FM's have worked for the last 15-20 years. But that's a hardware "over-engineering" issue, not an AM-Stereo technology issue.

Regardless, your analogy is interesting. But to me IBOC seems more viable than AM Stereo (not saying much, huh?) for a number of reasons, including buy-in by the big group owners. But it's still going to be a tough sell. The prevailing sentiment I pick up on this board is that its not going to make it, especially if prices don't come WAY down FAST.<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[k9ez]

> > There has to be programming out there for there even to be
> a
> > demand for HD.
>
> Are you talking about multicasting?
>
> If not, note that there sre tons of FMs nationally
> broadcasting in HD, and the number continues to surge. Thus
> far, Columbus's paucity of HD FM's is the exception rather
> than the norm for a market this size.
>
> I was impressed by a review in CNET of a Yamaha receiver, in
> which the reviewer was shocked at how superior HD-FM sounded
> compared to XM and Sirius, including in terms of stereo
> separation (a biggie for me). He said it performed great
> even at low signal strength, another good sign.
>
> If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service; and
> automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may be
> marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come down.
>
>
> Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
>

Having an HD Radio in my car, I can tell you that HD DOES sound better than Sat Radio! I am not sure how people can listen to Sat radio... to edgy and LOTS of artifacts. Bascially it is fatiguing to listen to.

People complaining about the fact that there are very few HD receivers..... Would you expect a person to go out and buy a receiver if there were no stations to listen to??? Hense the broadcasters are putting up the stations before the parade of receivers arrive. IMHO the manufacturere REALLY SCREWED UP by not having them here for Christmas!!!

Now there are plenty of HD stations out there. I just took a 2000 mile trip over Thanksgiving and was quite surprised at how many stations there are out there!

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

> > > There has to be programming out there for there even to
> be
> > a
> > > demand for HD.
> >
> > Are you talking about multicasting?
> >
> > If not, note that there sre tons of FMs nationally
> > broadcasting in HD, and the number continues to surge.
> Thus
> > far, Columbus's paucity of HD FM's is the exception rather
>
> > than the norm for a market this size.
> >
> > I was impressed by a review in CNET of a Yamaha receiver,
> in
> > which the reviewer was shocked at how superior HD-FM
> sounded
> > compared to XM and Sirius, including in terms of stereo
> > separation (a biggie for me). He said it performed great
> > even at low signal strength, another good sign.
> >
> > If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> > *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service; and
> > automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may
> be
> > marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come
> down.
> >
> >
> > Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
> >
>
> Having an HD Radio in my car, I can tell you that HD DOES
> sound better than Sat Radio! I am not sure how people can
> listen to Sat radio... to edgy and LOTS of artifacts.
> Bascially it is fatiguing to listen to.
>
> People complaining about the fact that there are very few HD
> receivers..... Would you expect a person to go out and buy a
> receiver if there were no stations to listen to??? Hense
> the broadcasters are putting up the stations before the
> parade of receivers arrive. IMHO the manufacturere REALLY
> SCREWED UP by not having them here for Christmas!!!
>
> Now there are plenty of HD stations out there. I just took
> a 2000 mile trip over Thanksgiving and was quite surprised
> at how many stations there are out there!
>

Interesting. The main complaint I've heard is that transitions from digital to analog happen often, and that it's not at all a smooth transition. What have you noticed on that count?<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>

 

[k9ez]

> > > > There has to be programming out there for there even
> to
> > be
> > > a
> > > > demand for HD.
> > >
> > > Are you talking about multicasting?
> > >
> > > If not, note that there sre tons of FMs nationally
> > > broadcasting in HD, and the number continues to surge.
> > Thus
> > > far, Columbus's paucity of HD FM's is the exception
> rather
> >
> > > than the norm for a market this size.
> > >
> > > I was impressed by a review in CNET of a Yamaha
> receiver,
> > in
> > > which the reviewer was shocked at how superior HD-FM
> > sounded
> > > compared to XM and Sirius, including in terms of stereo
> > > separation (a biggie for me). He said it performed
> great
> > > even at low signal strength, another good sign.
> > >
> > > If HD has truly superior sound; and it's promoted
> > > *effectively* as a "free" (non-subscription) service;
> and
> > > automakers start offering HD radios, then I think HD may
>
> > be
> > > marketable and appealing to consumers once prices come
> > down.
> > >
> > >
> > > Those are big "if's", but not necessarily unrealistic.
> > >
> >
> > Having an HD Radio in my car, I can tell you that HD DOES
> > sound better than Sat Radio! I am not sure how people can
>
> > listen to Sat radio... to edgy and LOTS of artifacts.
> > Bascially it is fatiguing to listen to.
> >
> > People complaining about the fact that there are very few
> HD
> > receivers..... Would you expect a person to go out and buy
> a
> > receiver if there were no stations to listen to??? Hense
> > the broadcasters are putting up the stations before the
> > parade of receivers arrive. IMHO the manufacturere REALLY
>
> > SCREWED UP by not having them here for Christmas!!!
> >
> > Now there are plenty of HD stations out there. I just
> took
> > a 2000 mile trip over Thanksgiving and was quite surprised
>
> > at how many stations there are out there!
> >
>
> Interesting. The main complaint I've heard is that
> transitions from digital to analog happen often, and that
> it's not at all a smooth transition. What have you noticed
> on that count?
>


Well I guess it depends on where you are from the transmitter....

If you are in the DMA you should be fine without any switchover. When I first heard the switchover I was very surprised at how UN-noticable it was! You really have to listen for it.

When you get on the "fringe" it wil switch over, but again, it is not that noticable. Your typical listener will not notice the difference. Unless you have a station set up like I do. I have made the decision to take full advantage of the digital signal. I am working with full modulation so when the digital signal is there you know it! I may change that back to try and match the analog better at some time, but with a handful of receivers around my area I am not too worried about it. It gives me time to experiment and figure out what is best.

I hope this helps.