R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
I have noticed a lot of stations that were running HD at night have ceased. Already getting interference complaints?
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M
Mike Walker
Guest
Perhaps the stations are tweaking. Apparently getting HD to function properly on AM without completely destroying the experience for analog listeners ain't easy. Who the hell knows what's happening at night yet, and if large-scale problems are happening, the specifics of these problems, or what will be done to solve them? These are the early days, and the future, for AM HD at least, is fuzzy at best. I believe the future IS digital delivery of all mass media. But I also believe getting there, and getting everything to work properly while minimizing problems for analog listeners (on AM) will be a rocky road indeed!
I noticed that WLS had a nice wide-band CQuam stereo signal a couple of nights ago, then HD, then CQuam - sounds like a little bit of experimentation is going on there?
I've also noticed some stations that have had it on over the weekend had it off, like WLW had it off last night, WFAN had it for a while last night after the game but then shut it off again, WTAM also had it off as well, and so did WGY, I've already called one of our local stations here in Ottawa, the team 1200, and let them know that I was experiencing IBOC Interference over their 50,000 watt signal, to be told I wasn't the first. I spoke with the engineer who was quite upset over this, and was also given the email addresses of the General Manager and Programme director. I sent them both emails as well and uploaded a clip of what the noise sounds like. Hopefully from there, they can take care of things on their end in terms of convincing at least the stations that are running IBOC that are first adjacent to CANADIAN stations to turn theirs off at night, domestic interference is one thing, international is quite another.
mimo said:I've also noticed some stations that have had it on over the weekend had it off, like WLW had it off last night, WFAN had it for a while last night after the game but then shut it off again, WTAM also had it off as well,
WLW and WTAM were broadcasting in HD last night around midnight. In fact, WTAM locked in for several minutes at a time.
That would be a nice thought!rbrucecarter5 said:Already getting interference complaints?
Len wrote: "...WLW and WTAM were broadcasting in HD last night around midnight..."
Len, where were you located?
I couldn't even get the HD Blinky Light to go on an off on either station Monday night at about 11pm, yet alone get a lock.
I was located in NW Ohio during the band scanning.
Len, where were you located?
I couldn't even get the HD Blinky Light to go on an off on either station Monday night at about 11pm, yet alone get a lock.
I was located in NW Ohio during the band scanning.
JohnnyElectron said:Len wrote: "...WLW and WTAM were broadcasting in HD last night around midnight..."
Len, where were you located?
I couldn't even get the HD Blinky Light to go on an off on either station Monday night at about 11pm, yet alone get a lock.
I was located in NW Ohio during the band scanning.
Cincinnati.
Listening at night at various points in the Los Angeles metro, I've noticed that...
KTLK 1150 AM Los Angeles with 44,000 watts at night is getting some very serious hash underneath their audio well within their protected contour thanks to KSL 1160 AM Salt Lake City.
KMPC 1540 AM Los Angeles with 37,000 watts at night is getting similar interference well within their protected contour from KFBK 1530 AM Sacramento.
The noise, perceived by many as a kind of static, rolls in and out like waves.
To average listeners, they are hearing a lot more STATIC on the AM dial. That puts AM in the same ballpark as shortwave.
This HD radio science fair project is merely hastening the demise of the AM band.
KTLK 1150 AM Los Angeles with 44,000 watts at night is getting some very serious hash underneath their audio well within their protected contour thanks to KSL 1160 AM Salt Lake City.
KMPC 1540 AM Los Angeles with 37,000 watts at night is getting similar interference well within their protected contour from KFBK 1530 AM Sacramento.
The noise, perceived by many as a kind of static, rolls in and out like waves.
To average listeners, they are hearing a lot more STATIC on the AM dial. That puts AM in the same ballpark as shortwave.
This HD radio science fair project is merely hastening the demise of the AM band.
Savage said:See: complaint-to-FCC procedure back on page 4 of this board.
Again, early today (Wednesday) - mid-band 50kw AMs had their IBOC turned off. WMVP, WINS, KDKA, WBZ, WTIC all seemed to have HD noise-generators silent. Interestingly KYW had HD on; it has also been off on recent nights.
And what is interesting is that KYW, first adjacent to WEPN, 1050 in NYC caues no interference at all in the NY metro area, even though the two stations at 50 KW are short spaced.
vsa snipped:
But wait! Isn't IBOC supposed to save the AM broadcast band? This is what a few outspoken individuals on this here message board who have a lot more smarts and experience than I do have been saying. They have been saying that AM radio is dead without HD to give it the quality pick-me-up that it so desparately needs.
Remember: IBOC is good for business, so it must be good for America. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where this all ends up to know for sure whether it will ultimately be a help or a hindrence to AM radio listeners everywhere.
What's in your wallet?
This HD radio science fair project is merely hastening the demise of the AM band.
But wait! Isn't IBOC supposed to save the AM broadcast band? This is what a few outspoken individuals on this here message board who have a lot more smarts and experience than I do have been saying. They have been saying that AM radio is dead without HD to give it the quality pick-me-up that it so desparately needs.
Remember: IBOC is good for business, so it must be good for America. I guess we'll just have to wait and see where this all ends up to know for sure whether it will ultimately be a help or a hindrence to AM radio listeners everywhere.
What's in your wallet?
W
wkbam1690
Guest
And what is interesting is that KYW, first adjacent to WEPN, 1050 in NYC caues no interference at all in the NY metro area, even though the two stations at 50 KW are short spaced.
"Short-spaced" is a term which applies to the FM band, not AM, since AM allocations are not made on the basis of spacing, but on the basis of signal contours. Looking at KYW's and WEPN's contours (both DA stations), it doesn't appear that their 0.5 mv/m contours overlap...that was the first adjacent protection criteria when they were assigned their licenses, I would guess.
R.F. Burns said:And what is interesting is that KYW, first adjacent to WEPN, 1050 in NYC caues no interference at all in the NY metro area, even though the two stations at 50 KW are short spaced.
The main reason is that KYW's directional antenna reduces the radiation towards New York City to the equivalent of roughly 1 to 2 kW. Here's a link to their pattern plot:
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/306886-6621.pdf
On analog radios HD AM stations such as KNX, KGO, and several others have annoying on-channel "hiss" when they fade in and out at a couple hundred miles distant where reception without HD was great. It is so annoying on some of my radios that they are unlistenable. With the 5khz audio cutoff the "hiss" and fading is worse than before when highs helped during fades. Of course, I shouldn't be listening outside the 20-30 mile city grade contour for these 50kw (past) flamethrowers. Good-bye and good-night to AM band.
wkbam1690 said:And what is interesting is that KYW, first adjacent to WEPN, 1050 in NYC caues no interference at all in the NY metro area, even though the two stations at 50 KW are short spaced.
"Short-spaced" is a term which applies to the FM band, not AM, since AM allocations are not made on the basis of spacing, but on the basis of signal contours. Looking at KYW's and WEPN's contours (both DA stations), it doesn't appear that their 0.5 mv/m contours overlap...that was the first adjacent protection criteria when they were assigned their licenses, I would guess.
I'm well aware of the term usage. I used it because even though we're talking about 2 directional arrays, they are still only 2 and 3 tower facilities and it is unusual to have two 50 KW first ajacents only 90 miles from each other. WEPN, formally WHN's basically disappears by the time you hit Jamesburgh NJ (Exit 8 A on the turnpike). This is basically the reason Emmis sold 1050 and moved WFAN to 660 when that non D became available.
The cynical, fraudulent "soft rollout" of IBOC-AM at night has apparently ended. Overnight we heard a horrific wall of noise across wide swaths of the band. It was the worst yet.
On the way into WYSL at 4am I noticed IBOC sidebands obscuring our signal well inside the one-mile point from our array where we customarily go to make annual harmonic measurements. Out of curiosity, I grabbed the FIM and drove back to the point where I judged that IBOC noise would be objectionable to an "average" listener. HD hash was invading a WYSL signal of almost 18 mv/m!
And most astonishing - and alarming - the HD noise didn't disappear until I was almost on the WYSL premises at the transmitter site.
Just imagine what this mess is going to sound like when the winter ground conductivity sets in.
On the way into WYSL at 4am I noticed IBOC sidebands obscuring our signal well inside the one-mile point from our array where we customarily go to make annual harmonic measurements. Out of curiosity, I grabbed the FIM and drove back to the point where I judged that IBOC noise would be objectionable to an "average" listener. HD hash was invading a WYSL signal of almost 18 mv/m!
And most astonishing - and alarming - the HD noise didn't disappear until I was almost on the WYSL premises at the transmitter site.
Just imagine what this mess is going to sound like when the winter ground conductivity sets in.
This morning mimo dutifully reported:
Whoa Nellie let the interference wars begin! No doubt more are on the way. Reserve your seat now (before its too late and it will be standing room only). Popcorn anyone?
And Savage thusly spake:
It surely looks that way. Too bad. All it takes is for one or two stations to panic and then they all get stupid and need to get theirs on next. No doubt this was a programming, and not an engineering, driven decision. The engineers know what they're going to be up against and I challenge any one of them to come on here and tell us that they like what they are hearing on the AM broadcast band.
Congratulations to the FCC! Thank goodness they are looking out for the public interest. They have permitted iBiquity to help the industry "save" its AM broadcast band and they should stand right up and take a bow! Their insight, foresight and politics are truly astonishing. What would us low life people do without their guidance to help us make the right decisions?
Tonight is the heaviest night of interference so far, hash on 690-730, 750-780, 800,820, 880,900, 1020-1070, 1090, 1110, 1200,1220, 1250,1270, that's 23 frequencies.
Whoa Nellie let the interference wars begin! No doubt more are on the way. Reserve your seat now (before its too late and it will be standing room only). Popcorn anyone?
And Savage thusly spake:
The cynical, fraudulent "soft rollout" of IBOC-AM at night has apparently ended.
It surely looks that way. Too bad. All it takes is for one or two stations to panic and then they all get stupid and need to get theirs on next. No doubt this was a programming, and not an engineering, driven decision. The engineers know what they're going to be up against and I challenge any one of them to come on here and tell us that they like what they are hearing on the AM broadcast band.
Overnight we heard a horrific wall of noise across wide swaths of the band. It was the worst yet.
On the way into WYSL at 4am I noticed IBOC sidebands obscuring our signal well inside the one-mile point from our array where we customarily go to make annual harmonic measurements. Out of curiosity, I grabbed the FIM and drove back to the point where I judged that IBOC noise would be objectionable to an "average" listener. HD hash was invading a WYSL signal of almost 18 mv/m!
And most astonishing - and alarming - the HD noise didn't disappear until I was almost on the WYSL premises at the transmitter site.
Just imagine what this mess is going to sound like when the winter ground conductivity sets in.
Congratulations to the FCC! Thank goodness they are looking out for the public interest. They have permitted iBiquity to help the industry "save" its AM broadcast band and they should stand right up and take a bow! Their insight, foresight and politics are truly astonishing. What would us low life people do without their guidance to help us make the right decisions?
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