HD on AM

[CW]

At the last minute, the FCC dropped HD off its open meeting agenda today......wonder why?!!! HMMMMMM

(could it be they have realized AM HD @ night is a disaster waiting in the wings?)

 

[jras20]

I one would love to see HD radio work out. I dont know how it will work out on AM though since like you said at night it all dies out. I love the fact of more choices on the radio. I think it would work great in big cities I dont know how well it would in smaller markets, but a city like Houston could use it. I also think they really need to start promoting HD radios, I looked at the Crutchfield catalog this morrning, all they had was one JVC reciever that had HD Fm/am it had a big logo and said XM and SIRIUS ready. looks like Sat. radio will be the big promoter right now. I think HD-FM should keep broadcasting analog also, that should be able to help coverage for people like myself in the fringe areas of Houston Market. I really dont know how AM will work out in the long run of HD, I almost like AM analog better because it goes out a lot more.

 

[Mike O]

At the last minute, the FCC dropped HD off its open meeting agenda today......wonder why?!!! HMMMMMM

(could it be they have realized AM HD @ night is a disaster waiting in the wings?)

Ibiquity. From All Access before HD was dropped from the agenda:

"Thursday's FCC open meeting has digital radio on its agenda, with the Commission returning to the topic of IBOC HD Radio's effect on terrestrial radio. Digital radio's open questions include nighttime IBOC for AM stations, which is presently on hold pending determination of interference."

I can not find the site where I read this to quote the source, but amoung other HD topics to be discussed was the use of DRM (Digital Radio Mondale) and Kahn's CAM-D system as alternatives to Ibiquity's AM HD. DRM is known to work on AM fulltime and not cause interference to first and second or worse adjacent channels. Kahn's CAM-D is in use on aproximately twenty stations at this time, although there is no receiver to pick up the broadcasts. It is being used 24 hours a a day and meets all the requirements of being ON CHANNEL.

At the last minute Ibuquity filed several proposals for both it's FM and AM systems that could not be ruled on today since they would have to be posted for public comment. Ibiquity also seems to have the FCC in their back pocket and will likely be successful in thwarting any other company getting into the HD market, even if they have a far superior system than Ibiquity. Once again your FCC at it's best.

I don't know how the FCC proposes to overcome the problem of Ibiquity's interference to adjacent channels, especially at night. Both Mexico and Canada have formally stated that any nighttime use of IBOC will cause them to treat the station using Ibiquity's system as two new stations that have signed on the air, the 1st adjacent channel on both sides of the nominal frequency. If KTRH 740kHz were to use Ibiquity's IBOC at night Mexico would consider KTRH as a new station on 730kHz and 750kHz. This raises a big problem as 730kHz is a Mexican clear channel and KTRH sends the bulk of it's signal into Mexico at night.

Ibiquity will play games with the FCC and they will go along for who knows how long. The bottom line is the FCC bought into a sub-par HD system and Ibiquity seems to call the shots for the FCC when it comes to digital radio. I'm sure that Ibiquity has made it well worth while for those in power at the FCC to wait this out and give Ibiquity time to try and come up with a workable AM HD system, the consumer be damned, as usual.

Mexico tested Ibiquity's system and passed on it as it does not work in a country where stations can be 20kHz apart in the same city. I don't know if Mexico has officialy chosen a system, although DRM seemed to be the front runner.

No telling when the FCC will reschedule IBOC on it's agenda, maybe not until Ibiquity can come up with a workable HD system for AM, meaning never.

 

[smallermarket]

I one would love to see HD radio work out. I dont know how it will work out on AM though since like you said at night it all dies out. I love the fact of more choices on the radio. I think it would work great in big cities I dont know how well it would in smaller markets, but a city like Houston could use it. I also think they really need to start promoting HD radios, I looked at the Crutchfield catalog this morrning, all they had was one JVC reciever that had HD Fm/am it had a big logo and said XM and SIRIUS ready. looks like Sat. radio will be the big promoter right now. I think HD-FM should keep broadcasting analog also, that should be able to help coverage for people like myself in the fringe areas of Houston Market. I really dont know how AM will work out in the long run of HD, I almost like AM analog better because it goes out a lot more.

HD-FM will keep broadcasting in analog.. nobody ever said that it was going to end. By the way, I'm with you on loving to see HD Radio work out... I ran into Tweeter's on Westheimer today specifically to play with the HD Radio... and now I want one.

 

[jras20]

HD-FM will keep broadcasting in analog.. nobody ever said that it was going to end. By the way, I'm with you on loving to see HD Radio work out... I ran into Tweeter's on Westheimer today specifically to play with the HD Radio... and now I want one.

Lucky you!! I always wanted to hear HD & play around with it. I just wonder how well it will work in the fringes? I can recieve the digital signal most of the time. I can hear the sidebands with the digital noise in the background.

 

[startel]

I heard the Commission will approve iboc AM from iBiquity for night use via the "circular" method. The notice gets circulated and the Commissioners vote that-a-way. Maybe in a week or so.... but who knows. DRM would be quite nice if for no other reason than the extra tonage of European and Mexican radio receivers being added into the mix.

But let's face it, the FCC couldn't care less about clean service outside the service contour. Power lines, RF bulbs, iboc, and XM transmitters (on FM) are all under their jurisdiction for spurious emission control... but did you ever see a fine for that? Maybe now with those over-power FM Modulators for XM, but nothing to help keep the AM Band clean.

Has anybody ever commented on the clause in the iBiquity license that gives them 3% of incremental revenue on the new HD-2 & HD-3 channels? Maybe they'll stay commercial free. On AM, I'm just glad to have a clean, digital, main channel.

 

[Mediafrog+]

HD-FM will keep broadcasting in analog.. nobody ever said that it was going to end.

It eventually will end, to be replaced by a fully digital transmission, but we're probably talking at least 25 years from now. The same transformation OTA television is going through now will eventually make its way to radio. Digital is far more spectrum efficient, and advancing technology will make the analog AM/FM format irrelevant. We'll see how aggressive both the marketplace and the FCC are about pulling the plug.

 

[smallermarket]

HD-FM will keep broadcasting in analog.. nobody ever said that it was going to end.

It eventually will end, to be replaced by a fully digital transmission, but we're probably talking at least 25 years from now. The same transformation OTA television is going through now will eventually make its way to radio. Digital is far more spectrum efficient, and advancing technology will make the analog AM/FM format irrelevant. We'll see how aggressive both the marketplace and the FCC are about pulling the plug.

And who said this?

 

[jras20]

So if analog ends that will make fringe area useless? I dont think that would be very good for the market unless HD radio can carry better out in the fringes. I have not yet got a HD radio in my truck nor for my home, I'd love to try one out in the fringes. If I would of known that analog was going to be cut off I wouldnt of baught a used $3 analog radio the other day for work! :

 

[Mediafrog+]

So if analog ends that will make fringe area useless? I dont think that would be very good for the market unless HD radio can carry better out in the fringes. I have not yet got a HD radio in my truck nor for my home, I'd love to try one out in the fringes. If I would of known that analog was going to be cut off I wouldnt of baught a used $3 analog radio the other day for work! :

Read my post again. We're talking distant future here, probably after the year 2030. Technological advances and buildout will fill in those fringe areas.

You will get plenty of use from that $3 radio before analog gets the axe.

 

[jras20]

I personaly would wish TV would keep going in analog, but I know it probably cost more, I know a lot of people who say they will not convert, if tv changes they wont be getting a box. I know I wont be getting one for TV untill they go WAY cheap prices. for FM I might wait till the end of the year, hopefully then a digital reciever will be at a half way decent price.

 

[smallermarket]

I personaly would wish TV would keep going in analog, but I know it probably cost more, I know a lot of people who say they will not convert, if tv changes they wont be getting a box. I know I wont be getting one for TV untill they go WAY cheap prices. for FM I might wait till the end of the year, hopefully then a digital reciever will be at a half way decent price.

Crutchfield has one for the car for $160 I'm planning on getting it within a few months.

 

[jras20]

I personaly would wish TV would keep going in analog, but I know it probably cost more, I know a lot of people who say they will not convert, if tv changes they wont be getting a box. I know I wont be getting one for TV untill they go WAY cheap prices. for FM I might wait till the end of the year, hopefully then a digital reciever will be at a half way decent price.

Crutchfield has one for the car for $160 I'm planning on getting it within a few months.

I want one to hook onto my outdoor antenna to my home theater system I bet that would sound awsome

 

[jras20]

Heres another question, what will happen to these little translators? will they just go off the air or will they become digital if and when analog radio shuts down?

 

[CW]

Heres another question, what will happen to these little translators? will they just go off the air or will they become digital if and when analog radio shuts down?

Some translators can pass HD and analog....others cannot....IF radio went all digital, the translators would have to pass digital (except for the sat fed ones...they would change to a digital exciter.....HOW THE HELL can a translator be sat fed anyway??? A TRANSLATOR by definition is a device that takes one RF freq and converts it to another with NO other changes....sat fed ones get their audio off a bird NOT in composite mode but as digital audio or analog LR stream...in other words they are LP FMs!)

Analog LPTVs/translators will stay on the air after Feb 2009.....eventually they will give way to digital..

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I personaly would wish TV would keep going in analog, but I know it probably cost more, I know a lot of people who say they will not convert, if tv changes they wont be getting a box. I know I wont be getting one for TV untill they go WAY cheap prices. for FM I might wait till the end of the year, hopefully then a digital reciever will be at a half way decent price.

There is only one reason why TV is going digital, and it has nothing whatsover to do with quality. The only reason analog broadcasting on TV is discontinuing is so the FCC can auction the spectrum of channels 2 to 6.

Since no spectrum would be freed by a switch all digital mode in radio, the FCC has no motivation to mandate all digital mode. Now, or in 25 years. They will continue to whine and complain and give fines over fairness, tower radiation, and the like. They are chair bound paper pushing lawyers with no engineering or technical expertise at all, and if there isn't a buck to be made, they could care less!

 

[thathoustonradiogeek]

It gave me a slight chill seeing Mike_O's reply (#3). I did a double take until I realized this topic was started last year.

God bless you, Mike. Rest in Peace.

 

[CW]

I personaly would wish TV would keep going in analog, but I know it probably cost more, I know a lot of people who say they will not convert, if tv changes they wont be getting a box. I know I wont be getting one for TV untill they go WAY cheap prices. for FM I might wait till the end of the year, hopefully then a digital reciever will be at a half way decent price.

There is only one reason why TV is going digital, and it has nothing whatsover to do with quality. The only reason analog broadcasting on TV is discontinuing is so the FCC can auction the spectrum of channels 2 to 6.

Since no spectrum would be freed by a switch all digital mode in radio, the FCC has no motivation to mandate all digital mode. Now, or in 25 years. They will continue to whine and complain and give fines over fairness, tower radiation, and the like. They are chair bound paper pushing lawyers with no engineering or technical expertise at all, and if there isn't a buck to be made, they could care less!

HDTV was Reid Hunt's pet project (He being the former Chairman of the FCC) and he got it rammed down the industries throat before he retired. It does have more quality than analog and it is more spectrum efficient (5 Std Def channels in the space of one). As for 2-6, there are HDs still left on there after Feb 2009....they will have problems with it though and the FCC has highly suggested they move off the LB TV channels but there is no mandate they do that.....FCC is not auctioning 2-6 anytime soon.

 

[theradioguy2004]

can't seen to find the post I am getting ready to refer to so I can only hope someone remembers or understands anyway. I read about KTRH being on 730 and 750 for HD and how 730 is a Mexican clear channel so if that is true why would KTRH be on 2 frequencies and what happens to 740. This sounds insane so I could have misunderstood what was mean. Please explain.

 

[oldjohnny]

Jeff, first off, KTRH has no HD. It is simulcasted on KLOL HD2, but the 740 Khz frequency has no HD stream.

I think I may know what you are talking about. Let's see if I can explain.

HD radio works by the main station sending off an Analog signal (which in this case let just assume KTRH does have HD) and a Digital signal. Now the analog signal would travel through 740 Khz, but what about the Digital? The digital signal travels on both sides of 740 (which would be 745 Khz and 735 Khz). The digital signal makes a loud hash that eventually will splatter to 730, 720, 750, and 760 AM. I think what you read was that XEX 730 would be splattered with Digital Hash from the sidebands of KTRH making it almost impossible to hear XEX 730 in Houston.

But not to worry, KTRH has no IBOC on, so we can all get our Mexican Sports fill. ;D