HD RADIO AND RATINGS QUESTION

[Steve Eberhart]

I know there are knowledgeable broadcast "experts" that read this, so I have a question for you.

If one listens to...say, KPLX FM HD2 ...does KPLX get the ratings for both "the Wolf" and "5-99-5" (the HD2 signal)? When you look at the dial, it says "KPLX" as you listen to the HD2 signal.

Doesn't that create an issue, since they are diverse formats and listeners? If KPLX gets the ratings credit for listeners to "5-99-5" and charges more to advertisers for their increased ratings isn't that also an issue, especially since "5-99-5" has no advertising and KPLX ads are heard only on "Wolf"?

Inquiring minds (mine) want to know...........

 

[SmokeRing]

I can't answer your question, but this new research doesn't look good for HD Radio:
http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_1.17.07.HDPercep.htm

 

[durdy_souf]

To answer your question, the call letters would get the points. Arbitron will eventually start separating the two channels but I don't see that happening anytime soon. You have to remember that HD radio is pretty new. Some markets don't even have HD stations yet let alone 2 channels on each station.
Oh, and Mr. "SmokeRing" don't sweat it. Like I said earlier, HD radio is new and the only advertisement I've seen is .....none. Show me the same poll when 50% of terrestrial radio is broadcasting an HD signal. Besides, who cares if they know what it is? When all of the stereo manufacturers start rolling out the HD radios they'll get the point. Let me ask you this: A year after HDTV was introduced, did you know what it was? Did you go out and buy an HD tv?
BTW, HDTV was introduced in 1999.
Get the point?

 

[SmokeRing]

Besides, who cares if they know what it is? When all of the stereo manufacturers start rolling out the HD radios they'll get the point. Let me ask you this: A year after HDTV was introduced, did you know what it was? Did you go out and buy an HD tv?
BTW, HDTV was introduced in 1999.
Get the point?

Wanna know the diff? When people were introduced to HDTV, they could see that it was an incredible upgrade. They couldn't wait until the prices started coming down on HDTV units. It sold itself.

HD Radio? Not so much. Despite the press clippings, HD-1's still sound like FM. <Yaaaawn>

And HD-2's sound like very average Internet streams. Who cares.

In 5 years, when the general public is supposed to have become somewhat aware of HD Radio, the 3rd or 4th generation Black Jacks and iPhones will be putting HD Radio to shame. And they will have an advertising budget. Plus, by then, Black Jacks and iPhones will mate with car radios and home stereo systems. You'll be able to listen to wireless Internet streams that sound far better than HD-2.

HD Radio was dead before it ever got started.

 

[Robert Bass]

BTW, HDTV was introduced in 1999.
Get the point?

HDTV was certinally NOT introduced in 1999. In fact it predates the 1990's alltogether. Japan developed the first prototype in the 1970's, which was known as MUSE.

HDTV Models were on display at the State Fair Of Texas in the early 1990's.

R

 

[little1]

HD Radio was dead before it ever got started.

Both sirius and xm are paying (either cash or stock) to get the car dealers to install them in new cars. Those deals expire next year. Since both sirius and xm are losing money hand over fist, it's going to be interesting to see if they continue down that road.

What if (and this is a big, totally speculative IF) what if HD radios were installed as standard equipment in most new cars?

 

[SmokeRing]

Since both sirius and xm are losing money hand over fist, it's going to be interesting to see if they continue down that road.

Actually, XM is ahead of schedule according to its business model predictions. Don't believe everything your sales department tells its clients.

What if (and this is a big, totally speculative IF) what if HD radios were installed as standard equipment in most new cars?

Maybe it will happen. More likely, cars will be sold with radios that can receive both HD and satellite. But YEARS (even a decade or more?) are going to pass before that plan can achieve market saturation. And the other technologies (like Black Jack and iPhone) are going to get BETTER, while HD Radio stays the same. And, again, if the selling point is HD-2--and HD-2 doesn't sound great--how many people will seek out HD Radios for home use.

You wanna know the proper comparison? Don't compare HD Radio to HDTV. Compare it to the mandate that Closed Captioning become standard in TV sets. The market for HD Radio will be determined by how quickly old radios quit and their owners go to the store to replace them. So some day in the DISTANT future, there will be a lot of HD Radios out there. But who will care?

 

[VOXPOP]

HD Radio was dead before it ever got started.

Both sirius and xm are paying (either cash or stock) to get the car dealers to install them in new cars. Those deals expire next year. Since both sirius and xm are losing money hand over fist, it's going to be interesting to see if they continue down that road.

What if (and this is a big, totally speculative IF) what if HD radios were installed as standard equipment in most new cars?

Just like FM, HD will be in most car radios IF/when enough people want them.
(not holding breath)

 

[Steve Eberhart]

actually I just realized today that they are saying "vibe 99.5" at least I think...for the HD2 on KPLX..

Anyway, I will say this about the audio quality of both HD1 and HD2...For those with a definitive ear for the difference, there is one - it is very small - probably recognizable on an analyzer, but not that different to the average human ear.
As far as HD2 being inferior? That's a stretch too. It sounds just fine. The thing a lot of high tech people need to realize is that at least HALF of any audience doesn't recognize the difference and at least a QUARTER of the rest don't really care.
I love all the new gadgets and technical stuff, but the fact is, most people aren't into it.

 

[durdy_souf]

And the other technologies (like Black Jack and iPhone) are going to get BETTER, while HD Radio stays the same. And, again, if the selling point is HD-2--and HD-2 doesn't sound great--how many people will seek out HD Radios for home use.

You're missing my point. You talk as if HD radio is in "full swing"
I only know of 1 fully operational HD-2 with jocks and great sound. Other technologies actually hurt satellite radio more than terrestrial.

You wanna know the proper comparison? Don't compare HD Radio to HDTV. Compare it to the mandate that Closed Captioning become standard in TV sets. The market for HD Radio will be determined by how quickly old radios quit and their owners go to the store to replace them. So some day in the DISTANT future, there will be a lot of HD Radios out there. But who will care?

Why shouldn't HDTV / HD Radio be a good comparison?
You know, we're getting way off topic here. I'd also like to point out how the HD-2 channels could help some stations and hurt others by offering a different format with no commercials. ex..... Any station in the D/FW metro can broadcast an Urban or Rythmic station on HD-2 and take away from K104 or The Beat.

Robert Bass - Thanks for the history lesson. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[SmokeRing]

Why shouldn't HDTV / HD Radio be a good comparison?

I think I've already answered this question. Because HD Radio is an extremely modest upgrade from analog radio. While HDTV was an incredible upgrade from analog.

You're missing my point. You talk as if HD radio is in "full swing"
I only know of 1 fully operational HD-2 with jocks and great sound. Other technologies actually hurt satellite radio more than terrestrial.

Again, I think I answered your point. You just disagree. And that's fine. But my argument is that, by the time HD Radio is in "full swing," other technologies will have become far more attractive to consumers in the free marketplace.

Twenty-somethings (the iPod generation) have no bias for or against satellite vs. wireless vs. terrestrial. They just want a device that best delivers their favorite music. And it's looking like wireless phone/camera/mp3 player/music streamers will continue to do this better than HD Radio. HD Radio will just fall further behind as time moves forward.

In fact, it's my understanding that HD Radio technology is too bulky to be packaged as a Walkman. Maybe someone on this board can confirm this? Certainly, since people are having to use friggin' TV antennas to receive HD Radio signals without buffering interruptions, could an HD Walkman ever receive stations in HD consistently?

THAT will be a problem.

 

[DougRoberts]

In fact, it's my understanding that HD Radio technology is too bulky to be packaged as a Walkman. Maybe someone on this board can confirm this?

It takes a battery-eating digital signal processor to decode it. Walkmans are just not feasible. The whole thing is just bad engineering and the AM band is a daytime mess. How long before KLIF installs this crap and wipes out KLBJ reception in Dallas and who knows how far to the south?

 

[Steve Eberhart]

I actually like the HD2 signals on FM.
I will say this about the AM HD signals...when they are receptive, they are pretty darned good. Not FM, but pretty close, and CERTAINLY a recognizable upgrade...the problem I have is the AM HD signal fades in and out on everyone but KRLD and the Ticket, which totally sucks.

Also, does anyone know why KPLX's HD2 cuts in and out. Lately it has been happening a lot..just disappears for a while. Is this weather related??

 

[ropertex]

Wanna know the diff? When people were introduced to HDTV, they could see that it was an incredible upgrade. They couldn't wait until the prices started coming down on HDTV units. It sold itself.

HD Radio? Not so much. Despite the press clippings, HD-1's still sound like FM. <Yaaaawn>

And HD-2's sound like very average Internet streams. Who cares.

Must be because HD does NOT stand for "high definition" but "hybrid digital'"

 

[TheLaffer]

In fact, it's my understanding that HD Radio technology is too bulky to be packaged as a Walkman. Maybe someone on this board can confirm this?

It takes a battery-eating digital signal processor to decode it. Walkmans are just not feasible. The whole thing is just bad engineering and the AM band is a daytime mess. How long before KLIF installs this crap and wipes out KLBJ reception in Dallas and who knows how far to the south?

I think they ARE in HD