HD radio display frustrates at Target

[jegrant]

Target, at least in my area, recently installed a large display of various iPod docks that are available for sale. One is a Jensen iPod dock which also has HD Radio.

A few things frustrated me about this:

1. An HD radio sign was placed on the display, nowhere near the one actual radio that receives HD.

2. Apparently, the only functional buttons on the "demo" model of the Jensen iPod/HD Radio were for volume control. I pressed and/or held down every other button, and even tried unplugging the "aux" input cable from the back, and nothing was able to put the radio into any kind of HD mode. (Then again, it was impossible to even receive analog AM or FM either, since all the controls seemed disabled.)

3. To add insult to injury, there was a large empty space on the shelf where the actual Jensen radios would have been, if they actually had any in stock.

The only other store in our area with HD Radio products on display is Best Buy, and they have two radios, an Insignia with dog-slow software that allows its users plenty of time to enjoy a cup of coffee after pressing a button, and a Sony that would not even pick up HD from WSHW 99.7, a local 50,000 watt powerhouse that is receivable in analog on even the cheapest, most noisy radios.

Would it be too much work to make sure that at least one store in each area has a good quality HD Radio hooked up to a quality indoor and/or outdoor antenna? This would at least let consumers sample the product.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Would it be too much work to make sure that at least one store in each area has a good quality HD Radio hooked up to a quality indoor and/or outdoor antenna? This would at least let consumers sample the product.

The vast majority of people will not put up an outdoor antenna just for FM-HD. So if they do that in the store, potential buyers will say "forget it".

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

nothing was able to put the radio into any kind of HD mode.

I have yet to see an HD radio that can be forced into HD mode. They all switch automatically upon reception of the HD interfer...er, carriers.

Would it be too much work to make sure that at least one store in each area has a good quality HD Radio hooked up to a quality indoor and/or outdoor antenna? This would at least let consumers sample the product.

This is something many of us have been complaining about from the beginning. It's many times more difficult to sell someone a product of this kind when the in-store display won't function. However, as rbrucecarter5 notes, customers will not jump through the hoop of erecting an outside antenna in order to receive radio. Several generations of no-brainer, no-sweat radios have seen to that. Customers are conditioned to: plug it in/insert the batteries, turn it on and it works. Anything more than that is a severe uphill climb.

 

[Savage]

Repeatedly on this board and elsewhere, I have read/seen or heard the lament, "if only retailers would put up outside antennas so the HD function could be demo'ed" at HD store displays.

As box-o-hair and rbruce succinctly note, having stores do this only prolongs the agony of an attempted HD purchase. If the receiver were to function on display thanks to a master-antenna system in store only to have the buyer discover upon unboxing at home that a long-wire is necessary, the receiver will just come back in 99% of cases.

It's just astonishing when you realize that HD reception on the consumer level is actually represents an engineering regression of more than 60 years. The loopstick and ferrite bar antennas were developed in the late 1930s and 1940s. Yes, even in the Neanderthal vacuum-tube days of analog AM-only radio, engineers were astute enough to perceive that listeners would just not, in most cases, string up antennas to receive programs. Thus internal-antenna technology banished the longwire and chassis ground long before even FM was widely available.

On the credenza behind my desk is a fully restored bakelite GLF AM-FM radio, made by North American Phillips in 1948 with magic-eye tuning. It has efficient internal antennas and a yellowed sticker on the masonite back panel points out ground and antenna terminals "for fringe reception."

Some technical advance, that HD Radio. It's just one more of the "are they smoking crack?" aspects of IBOC that anyone would seriously consider for an instant that radio listeners in the era of iPods and computers will bother with an external antenna.

 

[fybush]

As box-o-hair and rbruce succinctly note, having stores do this only prolongs the agony of an attempted HD purchase. If the receiver were to function on display thanks to a master-antenna system in store only to have the buyer discover upon unboxing at home that a long-wire is necessary, the receiver will just come back in 99% of cases.

There is, of course, a difference in MW reception environments between a steel-framed, fluorescent-lit big box retail store and your average wood-framed house in the 'burbs.

Next time I'm in Greece or Webster, remind me to check how well WYSL's analog signal penetrates the big boxes up there.

For that matter, ask me how well our own 1370 signal penetrates the concrete-and-steel, electronics-filled studios downtown, just five miles away.

Again, I'm not defending AM HD (ask me how poorly WRCI 990 does here, for instance) - just pointing out that if ANY radios, analog or digital, are going to get sold on the basis of in-store demos these days, there needs to be some enhancement of the abysmal reception conditions that exist in any big-box store.

 

[KB1OKL]

If we are talking just reception here, why then does analog come in well and HD does not in these big box houses? And yes I know why, no offense intended Scott but your reply sounds like just another example of one of the many lame excuses for a bad technology which does not work.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Not trying to defend the HD in any way, but most of the time when I go into a store like Target the FM antenna is either all wrapped up at the back of the radio or not even hooked up and the AM antenna is either not hooked up or does such a poor job inside the store it might as well not be hooked up. Analog FM is usually fuzzy even on bigger stations until someone like me comes by and actually makes the damn thing work where it's not fading in and out all the time. No one bothers with the AM, but the noise would quickly make them turn it off. AM HD is crap, but analog AM inside the stores just isn't there either. Retail is as it is though. I wouldn't look for them to bother to put any effort into antennas anytime soon, espcially for HD. Analog FM is just good enough for them to sell the radios so they have little reason to do much more.

 

[tomservo]

This is something many of us have been complaining about from the beginning. It's many times more difficult to sell someone a product of this kind when the in-store display won't function. However, as rbrucecarter5 notes, customers will not jump through the hoop of erecting an outside antenna in order to receive radio. Several generations of no-brainer, no-sweat radios have seen to that. Customers are conditioned to: plug it in/insert the batteries, turn it on and it works. Anything more than that is a severe uphill climb.

Yeah, I've been saying the same thing about all those Zune and iPod players behind glass at Wal-Mart. How do they expect people to buy them when you can't play with them first?

Oh wait.

 

[Savage]

Actually, Scott Fybush, I don't know about Greece or Webster but I was perusing the audio section at the Henrietta Best Buy a couple of weeks back checking HD receiver availability (none except in car stereos which included a smattering of "HD tuners" and "HD-ready" heads). I was pleasantly surprised to find one receiver already tuned to 1040. WYSL was making it in fine albeit with some whine from all the TVs operating in the store. The only two AM signals which could be heard acceptably on that receiver were 1040, 1460 and 1180 despite the proximity of the 950, 1280 and 1370 sites about 5 air miles away.

My point wasn't about whether analog or HD penetrates steel and concrete big-box stores. My point is that it's asinine to try to market radios which require external antennas to achieve acceptable reception. These days consumers just won't do it. So HD radios will be returned in most cases.

 

[KB1OKL]

Actually, Scott Fybush, I don't know about Greece or Webster but I was perusing the audio section at the Henrietta Best Buy a couple of weeks back checking HD receiver availability (none except in car stereos which included a smattering of "HD tuners" and "HD-ready" heads). I was pleasantly surprised to find one receiver already tuned to 1040. WYSL was making it in fine albeit with some whine from all the TVs operating in the store. The only two AM signals which could be heard acceptably on that receiver were 1040, 1460 and 1180 despite the proximity of the 950, 1280 and 1370 sites about 5 air miles away.

My point wasn't about whether analog or HD penetrates steel and concrete big-box stores. My point is that it's asinine to try to market radios which require external antennas to achieve acceptable reception. These days consumers just won't do it. So HD radios will be returned in most cases.

Would be akin to getting rid of your refrigerator and buying an ice box which would also entail the ice man coming every day and would be just about as convenient for the average consumer who just wants to hang their dipole on the wall or let it fall on the floor.

 

[nd2023]

In New York City, I had a hard time getting any reception, analog or HD, inside a radio shack 8 blocks from the Empire State Building. The antenna was all the way up on the HD radio.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

When typical consumers (99%?) buy a new radio, they get the radio home (or to the workplace), take the radio out of the box, place it at their favorite (or desired) listening location, plug it in, turn it on, and tune it to their favorite station. If nothing comes in, it's difficult to operate, requires stringing up wires, reading the manual, adding new (rooftop?) antennas, or if reception is poor, intermittent, and/or noisy, immediately, back it goes!

To expect anything more of the average consumer is asinine. They've lived well without all those messy wires, expense and complexity for many decades. I see no reason to believe they want to return to "Those thrilling days of yesteryear" when lightning strikes their poorly self installed antenna, electrocutes their kids, and promptly burns their house down.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Supercaster wrote: "..."Those thrilling days of yesteryear" when lightning strikes their poorly self installed antenna, electrocutes their kids, and promptly burns their house down..."

You crack me up on that one.

HOWEVER, missing from the HD radio equation is PROGRAMMING. People ARE willing to screw around with satellite radio antennae - why? - because they can hear music that they can't hear on their local broadcaster's station anymore. If you want the programming bad enough, you WILL go thru trouble for it, BUT, none of my HD2's in my town have anything different to offer on HD2 that isn't merely a commercial-free clone of their HD1 programming. The other 5 HD's have NO HD2's at all! What a waste without the extras.

 

[kenglish]

Would it be too much work to make sure that at least one store in each area has a good quality HD Radio hooked up to a quality indoor and/or outdoor antenna? This would at least let consumers sample the product.

The vast majority of people will not put up an outdoor antenna just for FM-HD. So if they do that in the store, potential buyers will say "forget it".

They sell a heckofalotta satellite TV and satellite radio stuff. And, those all need outside antennas, don't they?
Are we just being a bit too hung up on the "no antenna" thing? I get HD Radio with the supplied dipole just tossed randomly over a shelf. One day, when I get really ambitious, I might get three thumbtacks and hang it up properly ;D .

 

[KB1OKL]

Would it be too much work to make sure that at least one store in each area has a good quality HD Radio hooked up to a quality indoor and/or outdoor antenna? This would at least let consumers sample the product.

The vast majority of people will not put up an outdoor antenna just for FM-HD. So if they do that in the store, potential buyers will say "forget it".

They sell a heckofalotta satellite TV and satellite radio stuff. And, those all need outside antennas, don't they?
Are we just being a bit too hung up on the "no antenna" thing? I get HD Radio with the supplied dipole just tossed randomly over a shelf. One day, when I get really ambitious, I might get three thumbtacks and hang it up properly ;D .

Satellite is comparatively new and anyone that buys it knows it's going to need an outside antenna, radio has gotten along now for 50-60 years without outside antennas, that's a bit much to ask the average Joe.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Are we just being a bit too hung up on the "no antenna" thing? I get HD Radio with the supplied dipole just tossed randomly over a shelf. One day, when I get really ambitious, I might get three thumbtacks and hang it up properly ;D .

I'm glad you can get it with an incorrectly applied antenna. That is not the typical experience of users. Of course jacking up the digital power 10X will help, but it comes with a hefty price tag. Perhaps more than station managers will be willing to spend for a handful of listeners.