HD Radio is just for "radio geeks"

[Mike Walker]

You lose credibility when you say there's "no demand for hd radio". If there is no interest (hence demand), why the number of posts on this board (and many others like it on the 'net)?

The public may not be saying "give me hd radio!", but neither did they say "give me cd!" "give me dvd!" "give me digital cameras, I'm tired of film!" "give me the internet!" "give me a microwave oven!" etc. But those things seem to have worked out ok. They were products that met needs that people didn't even know they had yet. They did something already being done by existing technology even better! Ditto HD.

A couple of hundred million Americans listen to radio every day. It's not even a question whether it would be more enjoyable for them to receive a superior signal. Duh!

 

[ElCheapo]

You lose credibility when you say there's "no demand for hd radio". If there is no interest (hence demand), why the number of posts on this board?

I can answer that one - most of the people on this board are either concerned webcasters or DX enthusiasts. The short answer is they're bitter - either because HD is screwing up their hobby or they perceive it to be a threat to webcasting.

There simply isn't any other reason why so many webcasters could be wasting so much time bashing a technology they claim will never prosper. If they truly felt that way, they'd just let it fizzle out.

 

[Mike Walker]

Good point, El Cheapo. I can answer the title to this thread. If HD Radio is "just for radio geeks" (it isn't!), that isn't exactly discouraging for me! I am, by any measure, a "radio geek". And I'm not alone 8)

 

[700WLW]

You lose credibility when you say there's "no demand for hd radio". If there is no interest (hence demand), why the number of posts on this board?

I can answer that one - most of the people on this board are either concerned webcasters or DX enthusiasts. The short answer is they're bitter - either because HD is screwing up their hobby or they perceive it to be a threat to webcasting.

There simply isn't any other reason why so many webcasters could be wasting so much time bashing a technology they claim will never prosper. If they truly felt that way, they'd just let it fizzle out.

Oh, do I ?

"If you build it will they come?"

"That leaves a very, very rough estimate of 60,000 HD radios in the hands of consumers. Or - 60 radios for every HD station on the air... We can't know how many HD radios will be out there for sure in large part due to the fact that the HD establishment has decided not to report unit sales (which, by the way, never happens when you're selling tons of units)."

http://www.hear2.com/2006/10/if_you_build_it.html

And, let's factor in, the number of HD radios returned for lousy reception, complicated setup, and poor programming !

 

[Mike Walker]

Again, you have no evidence that the number of radios returned for, say "lousy programming" (the same programming that attracts hundreds of millions of listeners on analog am and fm!) is anything other than zero.

I sure as hell wouldn't take a radio back for "lousy programming". I'd ask "didn't you know what the station sounded like before you bought it???? After all, the hd1 is the same as analog (content-wise), and many, perhaps most hd2 streams are available online!"

 

[700WLW]

Again, you have no evidence that the number of radios returned for, say "lousy programming" (the same programming that attracts hundreds of millions of listeners on analog am and fm!) is anything other than zero.

I sure as hell wouldn't take a radio back for "lousy programming". I'd ask "didn't you know what the station sounded like before you bought it???? After all, the hd1 is the same as analog (content-wise), and many, perhaps most hd2 streams are available online!"

It is only common sense, with many reports of lousy reception. For lousy programming, I sure would take it back, and probably many others, after having spent $200 ! But, with analog, one can get a radio for $10 - $25 !

 

[Mike Walker]

I literally don't know ANYONE who listens primarily on a 10 to 25 dollar radio. Not my 71 year old mother. Not my non-audiophile cousins. Not my wife who doesn't give a crap about "audiophilia". Not anybody.

I have some cheap, knock around portables. I take them outside, and places where a "good radio" might get damaged. But since they only cover a couple of the ten audible octaves, they don't satisfy even my most basic needs for entertainment and companionship long term (certinly nothing like the warm, natural tone of a Tivoli PAL, or my Truman era Zenith table radio). If you are satisfied with 10 dollar radios as a primary listening source, and believe that most of us here are as well, then Dude, that says far more about you than I ever could.

Yeah, you can get a radio for "10-25 dollars". I could have taken my wife to Wendy's for our anniversary, too. We could have both eaten for 6.50! Is that REALLY the choice you think I made?

 

[700WLW]

I literally don't know ANYONE who listens primarily on a 10 to 25 dollar radio. Not my 71 year old mother. Not my non-audiophile cousins. Not my wife who doesn't give a crap about "audiophilia". Not anybody.

I have some cheap, knock around portables. I take them outside, and places where a "good radio" might get damaged. But since they only cover a couple of the ten audible octaves, they don't satisfy even my most basic needs for entertainment and companionship long term (certinly nothing like the warm, natural tone of a Tivoli PAL, or my Truman era Zenith table radio). If you are satisfied with 10 dollar radios as a primary listening source, and believe that most of us here are as well, then Dude, that says far more about you than I ever could.

Yeah, you can get a radio for "10-25 dollars". I could have taken my wife to Wendy's for our anniversary, too. We could have both eaten for 6.50! Is that REALLY the choice you think I made?

You don't know anybody ?

Well, looks like there are quite a few pocket-type radios, on Amazon's best-sellers list:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172681/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/103-7657844-6437456

Oh, look - my (and Hippo's) Sony ICF-S10MK2 is ranked 12th !

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172681/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/103-7657844-6437456

Oh, look what rec.radio.shortwave has to say about the Sony - looks like it is quite popular:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....=en&group=rec.radio.shortwave&q=s10mk2&qt_g=1

Oh look, at all the HD radios, on Amazon's best-sellers list:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/161081011/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/103-7657844-6437456

You should really do some research, before you post !

 

[Mike Walker]

Do I KNOW any of these people? I said that I don't know anyone who does that, not that nobody does! You don't have to look quite so hard to find people who own, and listen to cheap pocket radios. I DO! But it isn't my primary listening source, and never could be. And I don't know anyone (personally...you and I have never met, 700) who listens primarily to a pocket raido with a 2" speaker. If that's your standard against which others must be judged, why exactly to you "troll" in an HD Radio forum?

 

[calstymes]

El Cheapo spoked with authority:

most of the people on this board are either concerned webcasters or DX enthusiasts. The short answer is they're bitter - either because HD is screwing up their hobby or they perceive it to be a threat to webcasting.

There simply isn't any other reason why so many webcasters could be wasting so much time bashing a technology they claim will never prosper. If they truly felt that way, they'd just let it fizzle out.

As I replied to a similar post of yours on November 25 in another thread from this topic, I am neither a webcaster nor a DXer but I think this technology is garbage, particularly the AM technology which is causing a LOT of problems for smaller AM stations on adjacent channels to the big guns who are using it. We haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet. The legal problems are coming.

In that post, I addressed what you said about IBOC not being attacked the way it is attacked here and that there is very little HD bashing going on in the engineering listservers. And again I will say that it is really quite simple: Aside from the loudmouths here who insist on posting dozens of useless URLs which point to not much more than negative opinion pieces that are not based on any useful facts, in general the gainfully employed broadcast engineers amongst the spectators here want to keep working. Therefore they will not publically say anything bad about this technology if their employers are either using and/or are proponents of it.

This technology is NOT the panacea that its proponents, however well-intentioned they may be, think it is. There are serious problems with it which have mostly been kept OUT of "the press" and there IS very much a "cartel" that is committed to seeing to it that this technology is accepted at any cost, regardless what anyone else here believes. I was present when the original guy thought up the idea of digital commercial broadcasting and I've seen the slow development of this product for the past 15 years. There has been a LOT of speculative investment made in the company that is manufacturing this "product" (we all know who that is) and if it doesn't finally succeed with a public offering then a good number of speculative investors will have lost very serious money.

El Cheapo, I know that you are a chief engineer for 7 radio stations and that you also work in programming. I also know that you are a proponent of this technology. For the record, it doesn't matter what I do. But I am neither the webcaster nor DXer that you think everyone is who takes time out of his busy day to "bash" this technology here and I DO want to keep my job. That's all I'll say.

 

[700WLW]

Do I KNOW any of these people? I said that I don't know anyone who does that, not that nobody does! You don't have to look quite so hard to find people who own, and listen to cheap pocket radios. I DO! But it isn't my primary listening source, and never could be. And I don't know anyone (personally...you and I have never met, 700) who listens primarily to a pocket raido with a 2" speaker. If that's your standard against which others must be judged, why exactly to you "troll" in an HD Radio forum?

So in other words, YOU don't know anyone - well, it looks like what YOU think, is quite meaningless !

 

[Mike Walker]

Actually, of all the people I know (in radio and out) who own small pocket radios, not knowing anyone who uses it as their primary listening device doesn't make my experience, or opinion meaningless. It makes it different. I neither said I didn't "know anyone", or that I didn't know anyone who owned a pocket radio. I have a cool little water-resistant Sony model that I listen to every day when I shower. It'a great for what I use it for...talk shows on NPR. But for a primary listening device, for music? My grandparents had a Sony table radio with a 6 1/2 inch speaker and really "full" sound for that. And they were far from audiophiles!

When I was a kid, we had two "primary" listening devices. A big console stereo in the living room, and a tube Zenith radio that sat in either the den or kitchen. This was almost 40 years ago, and both sounded far better than any pocket radio with 2" speaker. I did have a Mickey Mouse AM that I got for my birthday when I was about 6. The left ear was the on/off/volume, the right the tuning knob. It had great reception, but sounded like crap. When I played in the yard I listened, but even then I'd use either the console or the Zenith to listen to music. Hey, I'm not just a studio owner...I'm a musician. Not being able to hear anything below 200hz is more than just "a little annoying". It's a downright disqualification for me. I'll take ALL the instruments (and voices), please!

 

[700WLW]

Well, looks like myself, and many others, don't care that much about audio quality (which, HD Radio claims to improve upon), but would rather have the convience of small, sensitive, portable devices (kind of like cell phones and the new portable Internet Radio and Satellite Radio devices), especially, when only listening to news/talk on AM - it's all about content, portability, and convenience, which the HD Radio Cartel and supports won't admit to. We have boom-boxes/stereos, at home, which I never care to listen to.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Mike Walker said:

After all, the hd1 is the same as analog (content-wise), and many, perhaps most hd2 streams are available online!"

With most stations already streamed on the internet to our computers why does anyone need plug in AC operated HD Radios, with external antennas?

He also said:

Not being able to hear anything below 200hz is more than just "a little annoying". It's a downright disqualification for me. I'll take ALL the instruments (and voices), please!

The Radio Shack Accurian HD Radio has 2 inch speakers and 150-20,000Hz response. He seems to like it.

I agree with Cal Stymes when he said:

I am neither a webcaster nor a DXer but I think this technology is garbage,

We haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet. The legal problems are coming.

This technology is NOT the panacea that its proponents, however well-intentioned they may be, think it is. There are serious problems with it which have mostly been kept OUT of "the press" and there IS very much a "cartel" that is committed to seeing to it that this technology is accepted at any cost, regardless what anyone else here believes. I was present when the original guy thought up the idea of digital commercial broadcasting and I've seen the slow development of this product for the past 15 years. There has been a LOT of speculative investment made in the company that is manufacturing this "product" (we all know who that is) and if it doesn't finally succeed with a public offering then a good number of speculative investors will have lost very serious money.

I believe the Highly Destructive iBiquity system does much more harm then good for the broadcasting industry, and is wasting, time, energy, and vast amounts of money on a defective digital system, that harms the industry and listeners alike. That is why I comment here. At least FMeXtra www.dreinc.com causes no harm or interference, has better coverage, fewer problems, and is much less expensive to implement, both at stations and in radios.
It is not to late to change, particularly since HD supporters keep saying the big "HD rollout" has hardly started, and according to reliable sources, few HD radios have been sold.
HD Radio has yet to get FCC final approval. FMeXtra is approved NOW!

 

[calstymes]

And I agree with SUPERCASTER when he said (says):

I believe the Highly Destructive iBiquity system does much more harm then good for the broadcasting industry, and is wasting, time, energy, and vast amounts of money on a defective digital system, that harms the industry and listeners alike. That is why I comment here. At least FMeXtra www.dreinc.com causes no harm or interference, has better coverage, fewer problems, and is much less expensive to implement, both at stations and in radios.
It is not to late to change, particularly since HD supporters keep saying the big "HD rollout" has hardly started, and according to reliable sources, few HD radios have been sold.
HD Radio has yet to get FCC final approval. FMeXtra is approved NOW!

Although you are very committed to advertising FMeXtra on this here message board (you have been doing it for a very long time now) this product DOES warrant your accolades. It is superior in every way to the cellphone technology that Ubiquitous has "invented" and is now ramming down the throats of consumers (too bad for Ubiquitous that consumers aren't listening).

SUPERCASTER, you would be astonished to know the FULL inside story as to how this superior product was actually developed and there are only a precious few who do know that full inside story and while I am not one of them who does, the good folks at Digital Radio Express surely do. It is a fascinating company that is poised to become very successful in the future.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

And I agree with SUPERCASTER when he said (says):

I believe the Highly Destructive iBiquity system does much more harm then good for the broadcasting industry, and is wasting, time, energy, and vast amounts of money on a defective digital system, that harms the industry and listeners alike. That is why I comment here. At least FMeXtra www.dreinc.com causes no harm or interference, has better coverage, fewer problems, and is much less expensive to implement, both at stations and in radios.
It is not to late to change, particularly since HD supporters keep saying the big "HD rollout" has hardly started, and according to reliable sources, few HD radios have been sold.
HD Radio has yet to get FCC final approval. FMeXtra is approved NOW!

Although you are very committed to advertising FMeXtra on this here message board (you have been doing it for a very long time now) this product DOES warrant your accolades. It is superior in every way to the cellphone technology that Ubiquitous has "invented" and is now ramming down the throats of consumers (too bad for Ubiquitous that consumers aren't listening).

SUPERCASTER, you would be astonished to know the FULL inside story as to how this superior product was actually developed and there are only a precious few who do know that full inside story and while I am not one of them who does, the good folks at Digital Radio Express surely do. It is a fascinating company that is poised to become very successful in the future.

The only reason I keep mentioning FMeXtra is because others keep claiming there is no alternative to iBiquity, and FMeXtra does no harm to the broadcast industry, or the public.
I mention FMeXtra as a rebuttal to the iBiquity supporters continuous, massive misinformation campaign and not intended as an advertisement or endorsement.