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HD Radio - New Initiatives

TSL2 said:
Time spent listening is down, listeners still like radio but now have more gadgets that take up their time. TSL was 2:45 not it's 1:45. Expect it to continue to decline we haven't hit bottom yet.
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I presume you are referring to daily TSL in the diary vs. ATE, or Average Time Exposed in the PPM.

If you are, then you are commiting the sin of comparing two very different methodologies.

If the PPM had existed in 1970, the ATE would have ben 1:45 or 2:00 or something similar. That's because we know that the real PPM measurement of radio listening declines by about 35% in every market from the last diary book to the first PPM book: it is methodology. Of course, if you want to believe that, in perfect synchronization with the PPM roll out listenershop dipped severely from one month to the next, go ahead.
 
Zach said:
I'm surprised that more HD subchannels aren't devoted to "flanking" formats. I think of how Cox in Birmingham operates a country station, and uses a lesser signal to highlight contemporary country. They can't single handedly knock off the #1 country outlet so they do a 1-2 punch to siphon off as many listeners as possible.
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The #1 country station in Birmingham is WZZK, the Cox station. And that's in 12+ and in the key 25-54 sales demo. WZZK also outbills WDXB by about three to one, and little WNCB, a class A, bills nearly two-thirds of what WDXB does!

So the comparison does not work because the facts don't support the argument.
 
DavidEduardo said:
In sales demos, the top 10 stations have about 45% of the audience on average. Their unduplicated cume reach is about 85% of the market (KIIS, with betweena 5 and 6 share there has about a 33% cume reach). So, doing a campaign on just a few stations will likely reach much of a target even in LA.
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That's not what paying advertisers tell me, at least in my market. (36 stations) They don't want to buy 10 stations, when one or two used to do the same job. They are looking elsewhere.
 
Chuck said:
DavidEduardo said:
In sales demos, the top 10 stations have about 45% of the audience on average. Their unduplicated cume reach is about 85% of the market (KIIS, with betweena 5 and 6 share there has about a 33% cume reach). So, doing a campaign on just a few stations will likely reach much of a target even in LA.
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That's not what paying advertisers tell me, at least in my market. (36 stations) They don't want to buy 10 stations, when one or two used to do the same job. They are looking elsewhere.
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You are not getting the point: most of the audience is concentrated in just a small handful of stations, just as has been the case for many, many decades. Most major markets have not had any significantnew stations since the late 60's or early 70's (exceptions being move ins and upgraded rimshots in some places due to Docket 80-90 now two decades ago). In many cases, with the decline of AM in general, there may be more audience concentration than in the mid to late 70's... Cleveland being a good example.

An advertiser should have an idea of the characteristics of their customers and potential customers, and can select intelligently the stations that deliver the the proper audience.

Again, referring to LA, just one station reaches, weekly, over 30% of the 25-54 year olds in the market. Use one or a couple of the best targeted stations and that is all that it takes. In some cases, fragmentation allows a specialty advertiser to reach a more specific audience using low rated stations that happen to be a match for them; a station in Farsi delivers a very specific audience in LA at very reasonable rates.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Zach said:
I'm surprised that more HD subchannels aren't devoted to "flanking" formats. I think of how Cox in Birmingham operates a country station, and uses a lesser signal to highlight contemporary country. They can't single handedly knock off the #1 country outlet so they do a 1-2 punch to siphon off as many listeners as possible.
Click to expand...

The #1 country station in Birmingham is WZZK, the Cox station. And that's in 12+ and in the key 25-54 sales demo. WZZK also outbills WDXB by about three to one, and little WNCB, a class A, bills nearly two-thirds of what WDXB does!

So the comparison does not work because the facts don't support the argument.
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*blush* Well, that was an embarrassing mistake, since it's my hometown.

OK, WZZK is the #1 and WNCB flanks it. WDXB is flanked by its own HD subchannel (Foggy Mountain).
 
DavidEduardo said:
You are not getting the point: most of the audience is concentrated in just a small handful of stations, just as has been the case for many, many decades.
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I don't believe it matters if I "get the point" or not. (Although I do.) In my market, both advertisers and local ad agencies tell me that they no longer buy radio because they have to buy too many stations to be effective. Maybe that is unique to smaller markets, but the bottom line is, a lot of advertisers (and their agencies) have abandoned radio. THEY say, "There are too many stations."

They are the ones I’m worried about. I'm just the messenger.


DavidEduardo said:
Most major markets have not had any significant new stations since the late 60's or early 70's (exceptions being move ins and upgraded rimshots in some places due to Docket 80-90 now two decades ago). In many cases, with the decline of AM in general, there may be more audience concentration than in the mid to late 70's... Cleveland being a good example.
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Maybe there hasn't been any significant growth in Cleveland, but I know there certainly has been a lot in places like DFW. I lived there for about 40 years. Back in the 1960's there were roughly 12 AM stations and maybe a half dozen commercial FM stations to choose from. At last count there are something over 80 signals receivable, depending on your zip code.

Sure a lot of them don't cover the market, but quite a few do. Of course, you can effectively advertise by purchasing time on just a few stations. You may not like what it costs though. You might even do well just purchasing spots on a few really obscure stations as in your example of a Farsi station. It depends on what you are selling, and whom you are trying to sell it to.

Although I'm a believer in niche marketing (that's what I do) it still doesn't change the perception that a lot of people have (right or wrong) that radio isn't the good advertising value it once was. Adding even more HD channels doesn’t really help that.
 
HD2s and HD3s could really benefit from a great locally programmed niche format. Dance formatted Mix 106.5 HD2 in Baltimore recently showed up in the Arbitron ratings without an analog translator, and they claim a 60,000 monthly cume for online listeners (but probably 5 HD radio listeners). It's programmed locally, and has 3 hours of live programming every day. They promote the HD2 on the main channel and on social networking sites often.
That same success could be duplicated with just an online stream, no HD transmitter required. Indeed, that station's HD signal was like the typical HD station, strong within 10 miles, choppy within 25 miles, and gone beyond that (except during tropo I heard it in HD 140 miles away)


Many HD2s are automated jukeboxes, sometimes with no imaging except the legal ID. The music may not be updated for months. They might be duplicating a format available on another HD1 in the market, or continuing an old format after a flip on the HD1. Or they're simulcasting another station or are syndicated. People don't know those HD stations even exist as they're not mentioned on air and you have to dig deep to find a stream, if it's even available. Oh, and the HD2 is sometimes off the air for days on end with no one noticing.

It's nice to know that every station that downgraded to HD has invested thousands of dollars just for the 10 people with an HD radio. Maybe if Cheap Channel didn't waste so much money spewing IBUZ, they could afford to have local talent (or at least regional talent) instead of Ryan Seacrest on every CHR. The only stations actually making money from their HD transmitters are stations with analog translators translating the HD2.
 
Nick said:
HD2s and HD3s could really benefit from a great locally programmed niche format. Dance formatted Mix 106.5 HD2 in Baltimore recently showed up in the Arbitron ratings without an analog translator, and they claim a 60,000 monthly cume for online listeners (but probably 5 HD radio listeners). It's programmed locally, and has 3 hours of live programming every day. They promote the HD2 on the main channel and on social networking sites often.

It's nice to know that every station that downgraded to HD has invested thousands of dollars just for the 10 people with an HD radio. Maybe if Cheap Channel didn't waste so much money spewing IBUZ, they could afford to have local talent (or at least regional talent) instead of Ryan Seacrest on every CHR. The only stations actually making money from their HD transmitters are stations with analog translators translating the HD2.
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While not seeing the advertising dollar per se', there are several NPR stations featuring very unique content on their HD2 and HD3 channels. Right in your area, WAMU out of DC features a Bluegrass Country format that comes up in research quite frequently. Whenever I'm in the market, I make it a point of listening to it.

Clearly your statement that only 10 people listen to HD radio doesn't hold water.
 
10, 50, or 100, it doesn't matter really, IBOC is going to way of the Dodo, it's already dead, it's just too stupid to lie down.
 
Holy crap, batman! I should never have disposed of that Receptor I used to own. I allowed pure gold to slip and slide through my fingertips, doggone it!

I can't imagine what I'd do with all that money if I still had mine and sold it!
 
local oscillator said:
I honestly have never encountered anyone outside the radio industry who listens to HD Radio, and I have never had anyone even ask me what it is. I do own a couple of HD toys myself, though -- an Insignia and a Boston Acoustics Recepter HD. I thought that someday they might be collector items since they're so rare; it looks like my investment is already paying off: http://www.buy.com/prod/boston-acou...ed/q/sellerid/20935765/loc/111/203087146.html !!!
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Haha! What are they nuts?
 
Yeah, they've gotta be nuts, but my jaw did drop when I saw the $10K price! BTW, the dealnews offer (which no longer exists) is for a standard Recepter, not a Recepter HD. I have one of those, too. It's the perfect bedside stand clock/radio.
 
mmnassour said:
They day Internet access becomes common in motor vehicles is the day when radio is pushin' up the daisies.
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If the world doesn't end before that day, there's a very high possibility I'll be contributing towards the pushin' up the daisies of radio!
 
local oscillator said:
I honestly have never encountered anyone outside the radio industry who listens to HD Radio, and I have never had anyone even ask me what it is.
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My niece and her boyfriend have HD radio in their car, and my sister and a couple of my friends have asked me about HD radio. The first thing I usually tell them is that it does not stand for high definition.
 
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