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HD Radio - no one talks about it - here's my take

Hi, I haven't been on here for a long while, and I just searched this forum for HD radio and came up empty handed. Actually getting 'Database Error
Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator.", so here goes:

Since I don’t see a great deal about HD radio online, I’ll put in my observations and opinions. This will of course in many respects be biased to what I hear in the Cleveland market, and will concentrate mainly on the HD2 and HD3 programs

My experience with HD radio started with my purchase of the new (Best Buy brand) Insignia . NS-HD01 portable HD radio receiver, which receives FM only, no AM, so I can only comment on FM HD. This receiver was purchased on July 20, 2009. I live on Cleveland’s West Side, and the unit seems to pull most of the area’s HD signals in with occasional dropouts, and some HD signals off and on or not at all. This is not surprising since it’s essentially a “walkman” type FM receiver that also gets HD and also RDS, and I never had a walkman type receiver with great FM sensitivity or overload signal rejection, and this unit is no exception. That coupled with that the HD signal is only 1% of a FM stations output power, makes getting a stable signal a real challenge at times.

That said, there is no local HD2 or HD3 stations that seems to have any commercials (good for the listener, but not the station’s revenue), nor any DJ’s. Just “canned” announcements at best ID-ing the station and format. Maybe beta testing possible formats on HD2 and HD3 to see if they would be a viable format for the main FM station? If so, I do not see any local radio station websites hardly mention their HD2/HD3 feeds, if at all, and no mention of formats, playlists, or programming schedules if any. Actually no schedule is needed at this point, as it seems the programming has no variance throughout the day or week. If they are beta testing possible formats, why is there no info, on either the HD2/HD3 station on how to leave feedback, or any info on the main station’s website? Do they not want public feedback? I realize you can probably email the engineer or programming director of the station, but they don’t make any feedback easy or obvious.

I seen a few format flip-flops and other weirdities in the scant 6 weeks I had the receiver.

There are no up to date format lists online, all outdated by a few months to maybe a year or so on what I read so far. So for general info for people who don’t have HD radio or are thinking of getting it, I’ll “upgrade” on my experience and knowledge on what’s being played locally as of today. I will not comment on the HD1 signals, as it is, of course, the same as the analog programming. Only 2 that I know up locally have an HD3 signal, WKSU, and WNWV.


First of all, no HD signals at all that I get on 88.3, 88.7, 89.3, 90.3, 91.1, 91.9, 93.1, 94.9, 95.5, and 103.3, even though I read somewhere that 93.1 WZAK supposedly has an HD signal, it must be down.

89.7 WKSU - HD2 is Folk Music, too bad I can’t get it well enough to listen.

89.7 WKSU - HD3 is another classical program, but sometimes seems to duplicate what’s being programmed on HD1. I can sometimes get their HD signals in my attic.

92.3 WKRK HD2 - really heavy metal, playing Slipknot as of now. Not my style.

96.5 WAKS HD2 - seems like the same type of newer/hip-hop/dance type music that their HD1 plays. Their RDS has been stuck displaying “I Gotta Feeling – Black Eyed Peas” for several days now.

98.5 WNCX HD2 - all Spanish music 24 hours, contemporary I assume, as I don't talk any Spanish. I can see this filling a need as the area has a sizable Hispanic population with little other broadcast source for that music. This format should be a “keeper” in the Cleveland market. Their RDS has been stuck on “La Cita – Antonio Pena” for several days now.

99.5 WGAR HD2 - Country oldies 24 hours, seems like anywhere from the 50’s on to the 90’s or so. This complements the HD1 contemporary country format, and I would say this is a keeper. Presently playing “Whiskey If You Were A Woman – Highway 101”.

100.7 WMMS HD2 - A lot of hard rock, but not as extreme as 92.3 HD2. Their RDS has been stuck on “Ain’t No Rest For The Wicked – Cage The Elephant” since I bought the radio 6 weeks ago! These stations must really try hard to oversee what their HD2 counterparts are putting out! Presently playing “That girl’s a genius, I think she’s serious – whoah-oh-oh-oh - ?) I wouldn’t cry over a format change.


102.1 WDOK HD2 - sounds like a mix of softer rock and ballads, from the 60’s thru present. A lot of 60’s and 70’s. RDS constantly scrolls “WDOK HD2 Welcome to the Sunny side”, and you have to catch it at the right time to get title and artist. Currently playing “How sweet It Is – James Taylor” going into “I Can’t Go For That – Hall & Oates”. Ho-hum format, IMO.

104.1 WQAL HD2 - “Welcome to the Coffee Shop” is their RDS banner. I actually listen to this one a good deal. Lots of 80’s, 90’s and current, no rap or hard rock/heavy metal, and a fair number of local artists that you don’t hear elsewhere, like Nicholas Megalis, Dave Ritz and the Riders, and Robin Stone. Similar to WDOK, the banner predominates the RDS display, and you have to get it at the right moment for title and artist. They do however announce the title and artist sometimes after the song - sounds automated. Playing “Tainted Love – Soft Cell” and going into “Her Diamonds – Rob Thomas”.

I just went back to 104.1 HD2 – “99 Times – Kate Voegele”, great tune and great they’re pushing local talent.

104.9 WCLV HD1 - no HD2 or HD3 here.

105.7 WMJI HD2 - 50’s and 60’s oldies, complements the HD1 70’s and 80’s oldies with a few 60’s thrown in, so kind of like what WMJI analog played a few years ago before migrating to more 70’s and 80’s, and the same 300 oldie playlist, currently "Unchained Melody – The Righteous Bros.”. Didn’t I just hear that a while ago? Now “Little Willy – The Sweet”. Wait, I thought they were the “real oldies of the 50’s and 60’s”? I bet they get this from a satellite feed, and throw their ID’s into it. Awfully compressed.

106.5 WMVX HD2 - Where are you??? Before I got my HD radio, I read WMVX HD2 was programming some kid’s network, then AAA format, When I turned on my new HD radio last month, they were programming the “Joke Joke” comedy feed, and I liked that as an alternative to music at times. Two days later the laughs were gone, and were programming a variety music format similar to their analog/HD1, but only showing the station and HD2 on RDS, no artists/titles. Now for the past 2 days, no HD at all on 106.5, not even HD1. Strange.

107.3 WNWV HD2 - A flip 2 days ago from traditional jazz (which complemented their analog/HD1 contemporary jazz) to an eclectic format, lots of acoustic, rock (but not hard rock), reggae, and jazz mixed in. Sounds like something by U2 playing right now, their RDS only displays “HD-2 WNWV-FM”. Interesting mix that I been checking out. Haven’t heard any blues in the mix yet, would be nice if they had some, as no one here is programming any blues. I read that 106.9 HD2 (or HD3?) in Canton plays blues but I can’t get that station here, if that listing is still current.

107.3 WNWV HD3 - “WKSU Classical” playing Mozart right now, but not a direct simulcast of WKSU analog/HD1 as that has talk on it right now.

107.9 WENZ HD? – Usually no indication at all that/if they have an HD signal. I did get a lock on their HD1 signal about a week or so ago, and again haven’t seen it since making me wonder if they were just testing it – until now, the HD signal icon is flashing but I can’t get it to lock. WENZ has a fairly weak signal here.
 
I also wanted to state that it would be nice for some of the HD2/HD3 stations to sponsor new DJ interns fresh out of local college or broadcast school so they can get some exposure. Maybe some personality on there will get more people interested. I'd hate to see HD radio take the path to oblivion like the FM SCA subcarrier stations did. All that's left on local SCA is the radio reading service for the blind.

There used to be some interesting stuff on SCA like Physician's Radio Network which was pretty much run by the major drug companies, and a few music stations that played a variety and weren't too bad. I even caught internal-station chatter on WMMS's subcarrier some years back, where they were telling some good jokes and having fun with each other, I assume between the DJ booth when the on the air mic was off and the board-op, or maybe they were doing remotes, whatever it was fun listening.

They need to make the HD subcarriers fun.
 
Guess too late to edit, but maybe that eclectic mix on WNWV HD2 is just on weekends, as they are back to traditional jazz again early this Monday morning and just aired a line "Duke, Coltrane, Miles. The second wave on HD2".
 
Glad to see your honest and open report on HD Radio. Many just flat out say "IBOC sucks its going to die" without even reviewing it and giving it a chance (not saying its perfect I know about the tech limits right now)...

Anyways, you brought up a very valid point. These HD Channels should be used in more creative ways then they are now to promote the technology. If clear channel and others are providing content that is very simular to what they already have on the HD1 channel there is no reason to spend money on new radios.
 
xmusicmatt said:
Glad to see your honest and open report on HD Radio. Many just flat out say "IBOC sucks its going to die" without even reviewing it and giving it a chance (not saying its perfect I know about the tech limits right now)...

Anyways, you brought up a very valid point. These HD Channels should be used in more creative ways then they are now to promote the technology. If clear channel and others are providing content that is very simular to what they already have on the HD1 channel there is no reason to spend money on new radios.

I just realized that most of the stations that don't have HD2/3 (as well as HD1) are the college/public stations (except for WKSU). I thought the educational institutions were always regarded as an ever-fresh source of creativity in the arts - including radio. I wonder why there is this lack on the stations below 92 Mhz? They can even host their grads on their HD2/3 signals as an "intern" type of deal to keep their exposure going, while serving the community, and letting fresh bodies start on the analog/HD1 station (or vice versa?).
 
dannykewl said:
I just realized that most of the stations that don't have HD2/3 (as well as HD1) are the college/public stations (except for WKSU). I thought the educational institutions were always regarded as an ever-fresh source of creativity in the arts - including radio. I wonder why there is this lack on the stations below 92 Mhz? They can even host their grads on their HD2/3 signals as an "intern" type of deal to keep their exposure going, while serving the community, and letting fresh bodies start on the analog/HD1 station (or vice versa?).

Because HD Radio tech isn't cheap! In the case of most of the non-comms, it will mean all new transmitters and / or antenna systems, additional studios to create the programming. And then there is the Ibiquity licensing fees, which are not cheap either!

They're better off staying the course....and save the tens-of-thousands upon ten-of-thousands of dollars it would cost to convert.

It wouldn't be unusual for the costs for a Cleveland area 2-3,000 watt non-commer to have to spend upwards of 50K to convert...and that's just for the transmitter and antenna alone!

And that would be on the cheap end!!!

Throw in the Ibiquity license fees, and in many cases a higher transmitter electric bill ...OUCH!!!

-C
 
A viable usage of HD radio, at least in my mind, would be a traffic and weather station.
 
I believe the radio folks are just waiting for it to catch on. With the new portables now available, things may pick up.
No DJ's because of budget, at least in Cleveland. That's also related to the lack of "programming".
Side note: There's no point in HD AM stations, and "HD", in radio terms, doesn't mean "high def". It actually has no meaning. Especially when you get to a third string station. Radio stations get an allotted bandwidth and if they have one HD station streaming at 256kbs, and another at 128kbs, you can bet any additional HD stations will be the quality of normal AM radio. Even normal FM stations in "HD" really don't sound any better.

And yeah, I agree 74WIXYGrad, TX and WX on these stations would be very ideal. Even "out of town" sports b-casts could suit some fancies.
 
We need to face facts about "talent". They dont put them on the air, why would they put them on the HD2?

That would require another air studio, which costs money. Guess what? They aint gonna spend it.

Unless the audience is older, (and I use that not in a bad way) management has no viable reason to put a jock on the air. The "kids" today could care less about DJ's. You can not and will not change their minds. Shock jockery is cool, but people babbling between their songs is just annoying.

Yall can tell me how your kids "love the radio" and thats its all great and dandy and they would love to hear DJ's, bla-bla-bla. I call Bullshhht. They would all be walking around with Portable Digital Radios instead of Ipods then. I highly doubt any of your kids have a portable radio.

Face the facts folks. Embrace what is coming before it runs you over and makes you a bitter and angry person. Stop your Poo-Pooing and get to work to make radio a better and more exciting medium to the YOUNGER generation not the old "I remember how cool it was" old farts'.

Definitions

Young = anyone who is under 32 years old. Post Star Wars ANH. They were too young for the original release
but live in the splendor of "space age coolness and tech"
the movie inspired.

Old = Anyone who is between 33 and 47. These are the Star Wars ANH Generation. They are the
pseudo Tech geeks. They made the crossover from the "oldschool"
to the "newschool" ways of the world.

Old Farts = 47 and up. These people were able to drive themselves to the movie, and
probably just Googled ANH to figure out what it meant.
 
cheezydick said:

Definitions

Young = anyone who is under 32 years old. Post Star Wars ANH. They were too young for the original release
but live in the splendor of "space age coolness and tech"
the movie inspired.

Old = Anyone who is between 33 and 47. These are the Star Wars ANH Generation. They are the
pseudo Tech geeks. They made the crossover from the "oldschool"
to the "newschool" ways of the world.

Old Farts = 47 and up. These people were able to drive themselves to the movie, and
probably just Googled ANH to figure out what it meant.

..Awesome
 
Simply put, the HD Radio Alliance and iBiquity standard are all subsudized by CC CBS, Entercom, Citadel, etc. Which is why those pointless ads for HD Radio airs on almost every spotset on a CC FM station in town (Rover's spots are always full, and I believe Lanigan is the same.)

Wireless internet radio has more of a chance of succeeding that "HD Radio" ever will. Mark my words.
 
I guess these folks assumed that we would all run out and plunk down 200 dollars for an HD radio. I, for one don't have that kind of disposable income for something I can get by utilizing my Windows Media player and a cheap mp3 player.
 
I suppose we, who are a bit older, can't blame the younger generation for not liking music jocks.

Over the past ten years, the big companies have fired most of the real pro music deejays who knew the music, could conduct interviews, were great on the phone, and helped break new acts.

So, the "answer" from the "experts" was to have deejays (usually the, cheaper, "b" grade personnel who remained employed) reduce their on-mike appearances to plugging contests, plugging station events, and plugging other stuff. Voicetracking, often from a distant city, eliminated the opportunity to interview an act who is in town, take phone calls, etc. The music is all picked nationally anyway.

No wonder the kids think that deejays are annoying. They were reduced to plugfest hogs.

Now, most music deejays are completely gone. "Robot voices" who blurt out title and artist (like MIX) are all over the place.

The giant broadcast companies, who got in over their heads with debt, have destroyed many of the distinctive appeal of local radio by cutting as many human beings as possible in a frantic attempt to save money. They think this makes them more competitive with iPods, internet feeds, etc.

They are wrong.

Radio has been forced to try to beat these services at their own game. It won't happen.
 
You can hear the Cleveland Sight Center's reading service for the blind by tuning to one of the new WVIZ channels. It's the one with no picture. It may also be on cable systems in the upper reaches. My antique audio radio show can be heard there Friday evenings at 6:30pm and Saturday morning at 6:30am as well as over-the-air on WBWC 88.3 FM (and www.wbwc.com, for those not in the area).
 
Nice plug, John! Though, of course, that's digital TV audio, not "HD Radio". :D I think WVIZ's new encoder box has cleared up some problems with that feed (25-9) on some TVs or converter boxes. My Zenith boxes pick it up with no problems.

I used to try to keep track of local HD2/HD3 channels, but there are so few of them... and as noted here, the commercial stations seem to swap them out frequently or neglect them. I believe WKSU's classical/Folk Alley streams have not changed.

As for the Insignia portable...I've never seen that in stock in stores locally. Or not locally. They apparently had a few when it was first supposed to come out, and never restocked them. Maybe that's changed in the past couple of weeks, as I haven't looked.

It sounds like, as I suspected, the antenna/reception issues are bad on the portable.
 
Yes, the Insignia portable HD radio was hard to find when it first came out. In fact the (Clear Channel) FM radio stations were advertising the radio a good 2 or 3 weeks before they were available or even before Best Buy employees knew about them. I'm a new tech gadget freak, and as prior to then never had an HD radio, and thought worth a try for $50. I called or visited several BB stores and they would say "huh? we have nothing like that". I'd tell them it's being advertised all over the radio and they knew absolutely nothing about the radios.

When they were released mid-July, I had to keep calling around and finally got one, probably literally the last one in Cleveland at that time, they put that last one aside for me at the Steelyard Commons BB, and I wasted no time going to pick it up. They told me they only sent a few to each store and they sold out. So all that advertising hype for something the BB stores seemed to be keeping real low key.

I haven't turned the thing on for a few days, so I don't know of any format changes yet for September. But however, you do have to be in a strong signal area, and it's best to keep the radio in one spot where it performs well on the station you want. I actually plug it in thru my home stereo systems via the aux jacks, I don't use it as a "true" portable that much, too much cutting in and out of the stations. So sometimes I'll plug it in to the living room sysytem, and sometimes into the stereo in my garage, etc. There's no other portable HD out yet, but I read a Zune version will be out this month, but will have several gigabytes storage for mp3 and cost in the two to three hundred dollar range depending on storage size. And being a portable, I wonder if the tuner will be much better than the insigina. In my experience, the tuners in all walkman style radios suck.

I hope I'm not getting too off topic, but I did kind of a thorough review of the Insignia and even reported about how it performed on the road:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16869972

My first post is about half way down that page on 7/20/09

I started posting on page 2 of the forum, only 3 pages so far, as dannykewl.

I also put a video of an actual station scan a couple days later on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OZAwg2kreM

I don't want to risk losing this reply page, but I want to say thanks to the poster who replied how expensive HD radio is for the station. I didn't realize that they would have to pay Ibiquity licensing fees, etc. I did realize they would have to modify their transmitters, but didn't think it would be that expensive. With the licensing fees to the stations, as well as consumers paying fees as the HD radios are so expensive, no wonder the technology isn't taking off. And the 1% of the main station's power makes it so only people close to the transmitters can receive the station. I wonder how many HD radios were bought and returned?
 
Can one of the folks with an HD Radio here tell me if you're getting WNWV/107.3-HD3, and if so, what's on it?

I have at least one report that someone's picking up WKSU's 89.7-HD3 classical music feed there!
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
Can one of the folks with an HD Radio here tell me if you're getting WNWV/107.3-HD3, and if so, what's on it?

I have at least one report that someone's picking up WKSU's 89.7-HD3 classical music feed there!

Right now as of 8:40 pm, WNWV HD3 RDS is showing (First line) "Los Angeles Philharmonic - J S Bach (plus more in parenthesis)" and I can hear classical music, 2nd line "WKSU Classical". and on WKSU analog, they are playing an interview with someone, can't get the RDS or HD from WKSU. Still no HD on 106.5.
 
dannykewl said:
Right now as of 8:40 pm, WNWV HD3 RDS is showing (First line) "Los Angeles Philharmonic - J S Bach (plus more in parenthesis)" and I can hear classical music, 2nd line "WKSU Classical". and on WKSU analog, they are playing an interview with someone, can't get the RDS or HD from WKSU. Still no HD on 106.5.

I've verified this myself, now. The feed is WKSU's classical-only HD3 feed. I'm also told that WKSU has IDed WNWV-HD3 on their site.

I probably won't be able to find out the WHY behind this until after the holiday weekend.
 
Update: I just came down from my attic where I can sometimes get WKSU, and KSU's HD3 was playing Hayden according to the RDS and says "WKSU Classical", while WNWV HD3 was still displaying "LA Phil/Bach" and "WKSU Classical". KSU HD2 still has "Folkways".

I took a scan across the dial and nothing new since my last reports. All the HD2's with stuck RDS are still displaying what was stuck there last time. No flips noticed. 106.5 still no HD at all, what happened there? I did get the hard to confirm (from here) HD1 only on 107.9. I can now get 98.1, but only one bar signal, not enough for HD if they have it, or even to get the RDS.
 
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