HD Radio opponents-Not ignorant, just unbiased.

[davideduardo]

Absolutely disagree with you - almost all commercials are national, not local, from what I have heard. You do not have any facts, to back this up - people have different opinions on this. You seem to have an opposing answer for everything - how come you are know as, the iBiquity shill, on rec.radio.shortwave ? Guess what - vsa and wgliradio blew your posts away ! And I really disagree with you on the commute time - I live in Maryland and commute to Northern Virginia, and we have many people who commute large distances. While working at NSA Ft. Meade, Md. there were MANY people, who commuted from Southern Pennsylvania, a two hour trip each way. And I just heard a report on the news, that more and more people are commuting longer to work, because housing is cheaper the further out one goes. I know a woman, who commutes two hours each way, from Cumberland, Md., to Gaithersburg, Md. Skywave is not rrelevant, for listenening at night - there are many listeners, so back that claim up, but you can't. No wonder, you are met with such hostility on rec.radio.shortwave - you haven't convinced anyone over there ! Guess what - on my drive to work, every morning at 5:00 AM, I tune to 700 WLW, 770 WABC, and 1040 WHO !

Coast to Coast is a national show because it is on like, well, 300 stations. There are over 35 just in California. It is not intended to be a DXers show. It is a local show, 300 times over. If they relied on skywave, maybe 4 or 5 stations would do. So why 300 or so? And they sell based on number of affiliates and the overnight local ratings for each one, added up. If you do not believe me, call Premier radio in Encino and ask... rates are based on local impact.

So now believing in HD is a crime. It is on 1000 stations, committed to another two thousand. It happened already.

So, you have a lon g commute. Most don't. Look at the US Census by MSA and CMSA for average commutes. the fact you can get WHO does not mean many others are listeing, because, outside of central Iowa, they are not.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

You know David, I just came across an old article, that I was looking for, and it blows away all of your arguments/rebuttals:

http://www.hear2.com/2005/05/the_premature_d.html

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

So, you are debating what I heard on the news about the increasing length of peoples' commutes - whatever. After reading that article, I'm beginning to think you are reading from a question and answer script, supplied to you by iBiquity. Let the broadcasters install HD/IBOC, but they will figure out, as Dr. Conrad stated, that they will alienate 40% of the listener base, due to poor coverage. And, with no HD/IBOC receivers in the public's hands, oh well ! I think the real killer is going to be cell phones - portable, Internet streaming, communications, etc. HD/IBOC is too little too late - it's a dead horse.

 

[JasonW]

You know David, I just came across an old article, that I was looking for, and it blows away all of your arguments/rebuttals:

http://www.hear2.com/2005/05/the_premature_d.html

This line from the article says it all:

"As Godin says, what’s the right price for an anvil? Well, if you don’t need an anvil then zero is too much."

That is how I regard HD radio. I listen exclusively to talk radio, most of whose content consists of on-air telephone calls from listeners. Since telephone audio is of lower audio quality (3 kHz bandwidth), it makes no difference to me if it is on AM or FM, and HD AM or HD FM won't make it sound any better.

Why should I pay $200 (or even 25% of that) for an HD radio when the programming I listen to sounds just as good on a $12.95 AM/FM pocket radio? And even if HD AM/HD FM pocket radios existed (which they don't), their higher power consumption (and even PLL-tuned analog radios are battery gluttons) would make them more expensive to operate. Radio stations that are losing listeners don't have an audio quality problem--they have a programming content problem.

-- Jason

 

[autopaint-1]

Jason How oild are you and if you are under 30 how many people your age do you know that listen to AM talk radio (Other than those in the true believers league) That is why AM radio is dying, OLD listeners and no new replacements willing to put up with the noise and low fidelity from AM radio.

 

[davideduardo]

You know David, I just came across an old article, that I was looking for, and it blows away all of your arguments/rebuttals:

That is not an aritcle. It is a comment to a blog. we know that the qualifications to do that consist of a) owning a computer and b) refer to a).

First, it is wrong where it says we have never promoted hardware. Radio has promoted car radios when none existed. It has promoted FM when nobody had FM radios. It has promoted FM stereo when nobody knew what that was.

Second, it states there is plenty of choice. This is just patently wrong. Choice is limited in event the biggest markets: where is country, alternative, classic salsa, true jazz to name a few in New York. Go to Macon, GA and you have half the choices of NY. HD doubles the choices and ability to serve the second tier of formats that many would like to have.

Third, digital is a perception, not a quality issue. Betamax was better than VHS, etc., etc. This point about quality is just BS. Someone is thinkiing of their own overintelectualized behaviour, and not mass audience behaviour and perception.

Fourth, "free" is a very big benefit for people on tight budgets. There is a limit to what they will spend, betweenphone, cellular, cable, highspeed, satellite, etc., etc.

Fifth, the clear benefit is better quality on both AM and FM, and more channels of programming. It is very simple.

Sixth, the writer finds fault with the content varying by market. Duh... more people like Country in Mobile than in Boston. Go figure....That is a benefit, not a disadvantage, ñproving the writer is seriously whacked and out of touch.

Seventh, th ewriter says we put technology first... well, that is how consumer electroincs works. We provide content, and the manufacturers see that there is something to hear on the radios with HD, so they make them. The reason CDs took of slowly is the machines were expensive and there was very little software to play on them.

Eighth, the writer says WiFi will be available free in many major metros in 24 months. First, this is untrue. Second, the hardware does not exist in a usable model, Yeah, I can listen on myt $3,500 laptop... that is an expensive radio, and it has crummy speakers. Just more BS.

 

[davideduardo]

So, you are debating what I heard on the news about the increasing length of peoples' commutes - whatever. After reading that article, I'm beginning to think you are reading from a question and answer script, supplied to you by iBiquity. Let the broadcasters install HD/IBOC, but they will figure out, as Dr. Conrad stated, that they will alienate 40% of the listener base, due to poor coverage. And, with no HD/IBOC receivers in the public's hands, oh well ! I think the real killer is going to be cell phones - portable, Internet streaming, communications, etc. HD/IBOC is too little too late - it's a dead horse.

First, those who think stations are much used outside thier very primary contours are just wrong. There is no useful or significant listening to fringe signals, day or night, AM or FM.

The commute data comes from the frikkin' US Census, with annual updates from Claritas. Commute times are not 2 hours each way... in fact, in the home of th elong commute, LA, the average commute is just under 40 minutes. That means about 90% are in the 30 minute to 1 hour range. And, more important, remember that even in LA, less than 30% of listening to radio is in the car!.

Broadcasters have installed HD. It works. It does not endanger the existing analog coverage or audience in the real world. There is no listener base to alienate.

Examples: KLVE, KSCA and the KRCD/KRCV combo and KTNQ (AM) have added HD. KLVE and KTNQ have been on over 18 months, and the others less. Every one of the stations has increased audience in the last year. In 15-54, the three FMs are #1, #2 and #5 in the entire market, and the AM has increased about 40% since it went HD. So where is the 40% of the listeners that we were going to piss off? I don't see it, and I actually work with several dozen HD stations.

In LA, the usable analog AM coverage is LESS than the usable digital coverage!

Anecdotally, we put the format on a rimshot Houston AM on and FM HD 10 days ago and have received thousands of calls about buying radios from Tejano fans who could not hear thier music well... amazing response for a new technology.

As I have said before, the way consumer electroncs works is to provide a need first: stations and content. Then, manufacturers will build radios. They are arriving, and at lower and lower price points. This is a long term deal, not a quick fix. Try 5 years, not 5 minutes.

The killer is WiMax, not any of the things you mention. And it is still way off.. and when it becomes viable, radio will also distribute that way.

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: "Avderage commute in LA is 40 minutes. Very very few commute 2 hours each way..."

I'll grant you the official commute figures - the "average" is actually a 90 minute round-trip. But the above average commuter who listens to radio much longer is more valuable to our business. According to the SCBA, 23.2% of working commuters drive over 250 miles a week. The average person in L.A. spends 93 hours just stuck in traffic each year.

DAVID WROTE: "Many of the LA Mt Wilson FMs have as good a signal in the IE market as in LA...But we do not get any revenue from it.....Sure, some advertisers feel they get enough overlap...."

You're kidding yourself if you think stations are not benefiting indirectly from their numbers outside of the L-A Metro.

DAVID WROTE: "If you are in the primary coverage pattern, you are not DXing. Using my example, the KLVE city grade gets to beyond Redlands... right up to Calimesa, so it is a local in the IE market."

That's your 60dbu signal, not your city-grade signal. By the way, most HD FM signals have trouble making it to the 70 dbu contour. Even the strongest FMs lose the lucrative southern half of Orange County - and that's part of the L-A Metro. As I wrote earlier, most AMers don't come close to covering the whole L-A Metro. Few even reach parts of Orange County with a protected signal contour.

Almost everyone agrees that the AM band is vastly overcrowded. What HD Radio does is to multiply the amount of daytime overcrowding by a factor of 3 to 5, depending on distance from transmitter and power output. Night-time would be a total trainwreck. While out-of-market-listening would end, out-of-market-interference would skyrocket. HD FM also increases overcrowding on the FM band. The NAB has fought to retain 3rd adjacent channel protections from LPFM stations. Out of the other side of their mouth they think nothing of chewing up half of 2 adjacent channels.

I might understand if there were no other choices in going digital. All of us have to make compromises, even huge compromises. However, there are at least 2 choices that are clearly superior to HD Radio. They include CAM-D for AM and FMeXtra for FM. And they are also relatively inexpernsive solutions. That means virtually all broadcasters can afford to add them, not just a relative few. Can you think of a more compelling way to encourage radio manufacturers?

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: KLVE, KSCA and the KRCD/KRCV combo and KTNQ (AM) have added HD. KLVE and KTNQ have been on over 18 months, and the others less. Every one of the stations has increased audience in the last year. In 15-54, the three FMs are #1, #2 and #5 in the entire market, and the AM has increased about 40% since it went HD. So where is the 40% of the listeners that we were going to piss off? I don't see it, and I actually work with several dozen HD stations."

So tell my why KTNQ 1020 has been analog-only for weeks now. I've noticed that KMXE 830 also has dropped HD - for an extended time now. KTNQ just dropped from a .7 to a .6 12+. It used to pull a 1 share not all that long ago. The 40 percent of audience that will be angered would come if all of them bought an HD Radio only to discover that they can't pick up your HD signal, David.

Also, please tune to 690 and 1090 on your AM dial in Los Angeles. AM 690 pulled a 1 share in the L-A Metro as recently as last year when Clear Channel ran it out of their Burbank studios. The gross interference you hear is an example of what people are complaining about regarding HD Radio. 

 

[davideduardo]

DAVID WROTE: KLVE, KSCA and the KRCD/KRCV combo and KTNQ (AM) have added HD. KLVE and KTNQ have been on over 18 months, and the others less. Every one of the stations has increased audience in the last year. In 15-54, the three FMs are #1, #2 and #5 in the entire market, and the AM has increased about 40% since it went HD. So where is the 40% of the listeners that we were going to piss off? I don't see it, and I actually work with several dozen HD stations."

So tell my why KTNQ 1020 has been analog-only for weeks now. I've noticed that KMXE 830 also has dropped HD - for an extended time now. KTNQ just dropped from a .7 to a .6 12+. It used to pull a 1 share not all that long ago. The 40 percent of audience that will be angered would come if all of them bought an HD Radio only to discover that they can't pick up your HD signal, David.

Also, please tune to 690 and 1090 on your AM dial in Los Angeles. AM 690 pulled a 1 share in the L-A Metro as recently as last year when Clear Channel ran it out of their Burbank studios. The gross interference you hear is an example of what people are complaining about regarding HD Radio.

KTNQ had a catastrophic failure of the HD gear when we upgraded to new hardware. It is being repaired, and should be on this week. We have no backup on HD, because there is so much HD demand that the manufacturers are backlogged severely.

KTNQ is up in the core demos. In Fall, 2004, before HD, we had a 0.6 share 25-54. It is now the double.

690 is about the dumbest comparison I can imagine. In 2005, they were English standards. From February, 2006, they are Mexican news and talk. The news talk format has no relevance in the US, and scored a 0 in both San Diego and LA markets. Again: they changed formats from one with US appeal to one with no US appeal. 1090 is now simulcast on FM, so much of the listening has moved to the FM channel. It is very localized sports programming for San Diego, with no interst in LA anyway. 1090 does not ahve a decent signal in the LA market excdept a few places along the coast of OC. So it has no protected contours. They previously got some OC numbers because they were the only standards station you could hear there.

By the way, even if it were true, moving form a 0.6 to a 0.5 is not "dropping." At that level of listening, the statistical margin of error is much more than 0.1, so a 0.4 or a.05 or a 0.6 or a 0.7 are all the same number.

The FMs have all increased dramatically since going HD... over a third for each one.

KMXE has changed owner, and fired everybody. It surprises me that they even stay on the air. In any case, this is a marginal signal... not a good HD candidate anyway.

Nobody is complaing about interference because nearly nobody listens to out of market stations like 690 and 1090 in LA.

 

[davideduardo]

DAVID WROTE: "Avderage commute in LA is 40 minutes. Very very few commute 2 hours each way..."

I'll grant you the official commute figures - the "average" is actually a 90 minute round-trip. But the above average commuter who listens to radio much longer is more valuable to our business. According to the SCBA, 23.2% of working commuters drive over 250 miles a week. The average person in L.A. spends 93 hours just stuck in traffic each year.

DAVID WROTE: "Many of the LA Mt Wilson FMs have as good a signal in the IE market as in LA...But we do not get any revenue from it.....Sure, some advertisers feel they get enough overlap...."

You're kidding yourself if you think stations are not benefiting indirectly from their numbers outside of the L-A Metro.

DAVID WROTE: "If you are in the primary coverage pattern, you are not DXing. Using my example, the KLVE city grade gets to beyond Redlands... right up to Calimesa, so it is a local in the IE market."

That's your 60dbu signal, not your city-grade signal. By the way, most HD FM signals have trouble making it to the 70 dbu contour. Even the strongest FMs lose the lucrative southern half of Orange County - and that's part of the L-A Metro. As I wrote earlier, most AMers don't come close to covering the whole L-A Metro. Few even reach parts of Orange County with a protected signal contour.

Almost everyone agrees that the AM band is vastly overcrowded. What HD Radio does is to multiply the amount of daytime overcrowding by a factor of 3 to 5, depending on distance from transmitter and power output. Night-time would be a total trainwreck. While out-of-market-listening would end, out-of-market-interference would skyrocket. HD FM also increases overcrowding on the FM band. The NAB has fought to retain 3rd adjacent channel protections from LPFM stations. Out of the other side of their mouth they think nothing of chewing up half of 2 adjacent channels.

I might understand if there were no other choices in going digital. All of us have to make compromises, even huge compromises. However, there are at least 2 choices that are clearly superior to HD Radio. They include CAM-D for AM and FMeXtra for FM. And they are also relatively inexpernsive solutions. That means virtually all broadcasters can afford to add them, not just a relative few. Can you think of a more compelling way to encourage radio manufacturers?

Let's see. the average listener listens to about 20 hours of radio a week in LA (Arbitron data) so they listen for over 1000 hours a year. If they are stuck in traffic for 93 hours a year, that is less than 8% of total listening. Big deal. As I said, in car listening is less than 30% of total listening, per Arbitron. The issue is not the length of the commute... it is how much radio is listened to in the car. And I have just told you: it is less than 30% of all radio listening.

The stations in LA do not benefit from the IE numbers. Sure, it is a bonus... "hey, you get some IE listening for free.." but it is not monetizable. For example, KLVE averages only about 6000 extra AQH listeners in the IE, despite being in the top 10 12+. That is less than the statistical variance from month to month in the LA book. Our advertisers do not pay extra. Nor do the advertisers on other LA stations.

Sorry, should have said "primary" signal and not city grade. However, the fact remains that KLVE and most of the Mt. Wilson signals have adequate OC and IE signals. Monetizing the numbers in LA is easy, in the IE is essentially impossible.

The HD signals typically do OK on a decent radio (not the BA one) to the 65 dbu contour. That is where about 95% of attributable listening takes place.

I agree, most LA AMs do not do well in the entire market... few penetrate santa clarita or the high desert well, either. HD will not change this. There is little if any listening to signals that are not boomers on AM.

CamD has no chance. It would require a different chip, and extra radi expense. Add to the negative view most of us have towards Leonard Kahn, this is a non-issue. And HD for FM already has a several hundred million investment, so that train left the station. You have iBiquity and Intel teaming up, and a dozen or more receiver manufacturers tooling up. This is not an issue that will go back to the drawing board. It took 16 years to get where we are, and nobody is going back.

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: "KTNQ is up in the core demos. In Fall, 2004, before HD, [EDIT]. It is now the double."

So, total numbers are flat-to-down, but KTNQ's 25-54 AM audience has doubled? WOW!!! I'm constantly told by HD Radio proponents here that 25-54s don't listen to AM - that's why we need HD. I'm sure then that tens of thousands of people must have purchased HD radios in L-A, contributing to your 25-54 gains and overall 12+ drop. By the way, KFI is tied in first place now in L-A 12+ WITHOUT HD since a small plane collapsed their main tower quite some time ago.

DAVID WROTE: "690 is about the dumbest comparison I can imagine. In 2005, they were English standards. From February, 2006, they are Mexican news and talk. The news talk format has no relevance in the US, and scored a 0 in both San Diego and LA markets. Again: they changed formats from one with US appeal to one with no US appeal."

Of course 75,000 watt 690 didn't show in L-A. They continue to be JAMMED!!! Plus, since you think their Hispanic format is wrong for Los Angeles with a Latino population that exceeds 40 percent, you believe they deserve to be jammed by KSPN 710's HD signal, right?

DAVID WROTE: "1090 is now simulcast on FM, so much of the listening has moved to the FM channel. It is very localized sports programming for San Diego, with no interst in LA anyway. 1090 does not ahve a decent signal in the LA market excdept a few places along the coast of OC. So it has no protected contours. They previously got some OC numbers because they were the only standards station you could hear there."

So you're telling us that jammed AMers should do like (the home of baseball's Padres) AM 1090 and buy an FM? 50,000 watt 1090 has ALWAYS had a tremendous signal over Los Angeles.

DAVID BACK-TRACKED: "By the way, even if it were true, moving form a 0.6 to a 0.5 is not "dropping." At that level of listening, the statistical margin of error is much more than 0.1, so a 0.4 or a.05 or a 0.6 or a 0.7 are all the same number."

No comment neccessary.

DAVID WROTE: "The FMs have all increased dramatically since going HD... over a third for each one."

WOW AGAIN!!! There must be hundreds of thousands of HD Radio owners across the L-A Metro! HD Radio has already given you big gains? You see, as I've said before, HD Radio is a selfish technology. Its users get to jam their poorer next-door neighbors and radio listeners see no benefits to them.

DAVID WROTE: "KMXE has changed owner, and fired everybody. It surprises me that they even stay on the air. In any case, this is a marginal signal... not a good HD candidate anyway.

WOW AGAIN!!! KMXE 830, Orange County's 50,000 watt home to baseball's Angels in Spanish and owned by the owner of the Angels, is a marginal signal? I'm amazed, David. I'm getting a real education here.

DAVID CONCLUDED: "Nobody is complaing about interference because nearly nobody listens to out of market stations like 690 and 1090 in LA."

They don't complain much. When they hear the electronic buzz-saw over the clearly audible audio, they just figure the station is screwing up, blame them and go someplace else. I'm sure you're counting on that for more listeners.

[EDIT-unauthorized use of copyrighted material in violation of TOS]

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: "As I said, in car listening is less than 30% of total listening, per Arbitron. The issue is not the length of the commute... it is how much radio is listened to in the car. And I have just told you: it is less than 30% of all radio listening."

You better correct what the Southern California Broadcasters Association continues to say. They claim in-car listening in L-A is 55.3% from 5am-9am, 61.3% 9am-4pm, and 55.3% from 4pm-8pm.

DAVID WROTE: "The stations in LA do not benefit from the IE numbers. Sure, it is a bonus... "hey, you get some IE listening for free..."

Nothing in business is really free.

DAVID WROTE: "The HD signals typically do OK on a decent radio (not the BA one) to the 65 dbu contour."

Experts will disagree with you. I'm sure Autopaint-1 who owns the one properly working BA Receptor radio in the world will chime in here again.

DAVID WROTE: "I agree, most LA AMs do not do well in the entire market... few penetrate santa clarita or the high desert well, either. HD will not change this. There is little if any listening to signals that are not boomers on AM."

Exactly. CAM-D actually claims to increase analog AM radio coverage by 50-55 percent, without creating new interference, unlike HD.

DAVID WROTE: "CamD has no chance. It would require a different chip, and extra radi expense. Add to the negative view most of us have towards Leonard Kahn, this is a non-issue. And HD for FM already has a several hundred million investment, so that train left the station. You have iBiquity and Intel teaming up, and a dozen or more receiver manufacturers tooling up. This is not an issue that will go back to the drawing board. It took 16 years to get where we are, and nobody is going back."

This is a personal thing against Leonard Kahn, isn't it? It's not about the better way of doing things. iBiquity has been counting on a large installed base of major broadcasters to goad the FCC into acceptance no matter how big their mistake would be. I predict surviving broadcasters will live to regret HD Radio.

Meanwhile, the public already thinks they own digital radios. After all, their radios have a digital readout.

 

[davideduardo]

DAVID WROTE: "KTNQ is up in the core demos. In Fall, 2004, before HD, [EDIT]. It is now the double."

So, total numbers are flat-to-down, but KTNQ's 25-54 AM audience has doubled? WOW!!! I'm constantly told by HD Radio proponents here that 25-54s don't listen to AM - that's why we need HD. I'm sure then that tens of thousands of people must have purchased HD radios in L-A, contributing to your 25-54 gains and overall 12+ drop. By the way, KFI is tied in first place now in L-A 12+ WITHOUT HD since a small plane collapsed their main tower quite some time ago.

DAVID WROTE: "690 is about the dumbest comparison I can imagine. In 2005, they were English standards. From February, 2006, they are Mexican news and talk. The news talk format has no relevance in the US, and scored a 0 in both San Diego and LA markets. Again: they changed formats from one with US appeal to one with no US appeal."

Of course 75,000 watt 690 didn't show in L-A. They continue to be JAMMED!!! Plus, since you think their Hispanic format is wrong for Los Angeles with a Latino population that exceeds 40 percent, you believe they deserve to be jammed by KSPN 710's HD signal, right?

DAVID WROTE: "1090 is now simulcast on FM, so much of the listening has moved to the FM channel. It is very localized sports programming for San Diego, with no interst in LA anyway. 1090 does not ahve a decent signal in the LA market excdept a few places along the coast of OC. So it has no protected contours. They previously got some OC numbers because they were the only standards station you could hear there."

So you're telling us that jammed AMers should do like (the home of baseball's Padres) AM 1090 and buy an FM? 50,000 watt 1090 has ALWAYS had a tremendous signal over Los Angeles.

DAVID BACK-TRACKED: "By the way, even if it were true, moving form a 0.6 to a 0.5 is not "dropping." At that level of listening, the statistical margin of error is much more than 0.1, so a 0.4 or a.05 or a 0.6 or a 0.7 are all the same number."

No comment neccessary.

DAVID WROTE: "The FMs have all increased dramatically since going HD... over a third for each one."

WOW AGAIN!!! There must be hundreds of thousands of HD Radio owners across the L-A Metro! HD Radio has already given you big gains? You see, as I've said before, HD Radio is a selfish technology. Its users get to jam their poorer next-door neighbors and radio listeners see no benefits to them.

DAVID WROTE: "KMXE has changed owner, and fired everybody. It surprises me that they even stay on the air. In any case, this is a marginal signal... not a good HD candidate anyway.

WOW AGAIN!!! KMXE 830, Orange County's 50,000 watt home to baseball's Angels in Spanish and owned by the owner of the Angels, is a marginal signal? I'm amazed, David. I'm getting a real education here.

DAVID CONCLUDED: "Nobody is complaing about interference because nearly nobody listens to out of market stations like 690 and 1090 in LA."

They don't complain much. When they hear the electronic buzz-saw over the clearly audible audio, they just figure the station is screwing up, blame them and go someplace else. I'm sure you're counting on that for more listeners.

[EDIT-unauthorized use of copyrighted material in violation of TOS]

Don't be obtuse. The bulk of the KTNQ numbers are in 35-54, and then mostly 40-54. But the gain was enough to double the numbers, despite having, as you say, HD turned on. So HD did not do anything to discourage listening. By the way, a 1 share 25-54 among Hispanics is about a 4 share among spanish dominants... not bad for AM.) KFI will have HD back on when the tower is rebuilt, as Clear Channel has a policy that every AM that is a viable signal will be HD. And in that same 25-54, KFI is not first... it is 8th.

690 did not show in LA because the programming sucks. If the programming were any good, it would show in San Diego! After all, the 690 signal is huge there and there are no significant differencs in Hispanic taste in the to markets. 690 dropped out of Arbitron when they changed format, not because of any interference. Anyway, most of the 690 LA market listening was in OC, not LA County, so the 690 signal, withour without inteference, is just not good enough. Again, it stopped showing in SD, so it is 100% programming and not signal.

1090 has never been viable in LA. The KRCD PD worked there in the 70's and early 80's, and the bulk of listeners were in SD and OC, not LA County. Mst of its last years in Spanish it got no LA numbers. John Lynch put an FM simulcast on 1090 for two reasons: he believes the demos can be broadened by using FM, and the 1090 signal is crummy in the fast grwoth eastern part of SD County.

As to KRCD, KLVE and KSCA, what I said is that the addition of HD has not affected ratings negatively. Nor has the addition of HD to next adjacent 103.5 affected 103.9, which is at its highest levels ever since KOST fired up HD from Mt. Wilson. So claims of interferencee are much exaggerated. In fact, we just put KRCD on HD-2 on 101.9 last week to expand the KRCD coverage area.

KMXE is a very marginal signal. It does not cover adequately the northern half of LA County daytime, and only covers about 30% of the market at night. One of its big issues is being on the other side of the faultline, a known impediment to grwoundwave coverage.

Since there has been no audience loss that can remotely be attributed to HD, and particularly since nearly nobody listens in areas where HD might interfere, your point is invalid.

 

[davideduardo]

You better correct what the Southern California Broadcasters Association continues to say. They claim in-car listening in L-A is 55.3% from 5am-9am, 61.3% 9am-4pm, and 55.3% from 4pm-8pm.

Nothing in business is really free.

Experts will disagree with you. I'm sure Autopaint-1 who owns the one properly working BA Receptor radio in the world will chime in here again.

Exactly. CAM-D actually claims to increase analog AM radio coverage by 50-55 percent, without creating new interference, unlike HD.

This is a personal thing against Leonard Kahn, isn't it? It's not about the better way of doing things. iBiquity has been counting on a large installed base of major broadcasters to goad the FCC into acceptance no matter how big their mistake would be. I predict surviving broadcasters will live to regret HD Radio.

Meanwhile, the public already thinks they own digital radios. After all, their radios have a digital readout.

Arbitron sez: AM Drive in car is 37% of AQH listening, mid-days is 26% and PM Drive is 42%. 6 to Midnight, it is 32% in Spring, and has been around 30% for several years.

I believe that what you are quoting, inaccruately, is in the car cume, not AQH actual listening... but it could be anything. I got my data from Arbitron... in fact, I just ran 5 Am to 9 AM, a custom daypart, and in car is 41% in that daypart. All is 12+ Spring 2006.

Coverage outside the "buy" like listeners outside the demo, are not paid for.

We have, in our company, about 60 BA radios. They are all lacking in sensitivity. In other words, not a good radio to judge HD on, especaially since they use the version 1.0 design specs, too. As to "experts" who will disagree... remember that we have running HD staitons in over a dozen markets. That makes us experts.

There is no use talking about KAhn and his system. The system has already been adopted, 1000 stations are on the air, and about 2000 more are signed or committed by company policy. HD is adopted in Brazil, is being tested on air in Mexico City (on 690 where there are adjacents on 710 and 660 in the same market) and going on in Philippines, etc.

As to Leonard himself, he basically killed the opportunity to keep AM a viable music medium. Of course there is resentment. Most of us in AM management at the time still remember and regret what happened.

 

[autopaint-1]

Good luck in this debate david. I hope you can keep going, These guys make me want to stop DXing. You're right, It's going to be IBOC or nothing at this point. By the way, my BA performs very well. There are great variences in radios. I have the feeling that B.A. got stuck with a lot of marginal radios. Mine is sensitive and selective, but I had another B.A. which was deaf as a stone. I brought it back to the store immediately and did an A/B against another radio they had in stock. I took the more sensitive B.A. home.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

Again David, this IS an article AND a blog AND it was written by Mark Ramsey, the president of Hear2.0, the audio entertainment strategy company and Mercury Radio Research - he knows what he is talking about, it is his business. Your rebuttlas/arguments are hot air, so good for you, autopaint-1, for wishing David good luck.

Now David, let's see, what the top of the page says:

The Premature Death of HD Radio
By Mark Ramsey
Mercury Radio Research

AND let's see, what one of those comments were, at the end of the article:

» The Death of HD Radio from Orbitcast
WOW. Great article by Mark Ramsey of Radio Marketing Nexus about The Premature Death of HD Radio. Brings up some great points about terrestrials attempt to beat Satellite at it’s own digital game with HD Radio…. and how HD Radio...

 

[davideduardo]

Again David, this IS an article AND a blog AND it was written by Mark Ramsey, the president of Hear2.0, the audio entertainment strategy company and Mercury Radio Research - he knows what he is talking about, it is his business. Your rebuttlas/arguments are hot air, so good for you, autopaint-1, for wishing David good luck.

Ok. enough. Mark ramsey is well respected. He blogs. I participate in boards.

I am head of a 50-person in-house radio research company and responsible for programming on 72 radio stations. I know what I am talking about.

Unlike Ramsey, I actually am part of the day to day running of radio stations, not an outside consultant and I think I may know more about the reality of HD than Mark in this case.

You might look at our ratings so far in Spring... we are up as a company something like 25% over Spring 2005!

Hot air is your misread of the SCBA data, the 690 ratings, salability of LA stations in Riverside, etc., etc.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

"Ok. enough. Mark ramsey is well respected. He blogs. I participate in boards."

Boy, you just can't quite admit, that this was an article - you see, at the end of the article, it says:

"Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Premature Death of HD Radio:"

Mark Ramsey, evidentually, writes articles, too - almost David !

 

[davideduardo]

"Ok. enough. Mark ramsey is well respected. He blogs. I participate in boards."

Boy, you just can't quite admit, that this was an article - you see, at the end of the article, it says:

"Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Premature Death of HD Radio:"

Mark Ramsey, evidentually, writes articles, too - almost David !

A blog has written things on it. You want to call them articles, I want to call them comments. It's, at the end of the day, the same thing. It is a blog, not a magazine, not a newspaper. What difference does it make? It is Ramsey's opinion or the opinion of someone who has written Ramsey. In that sense, no different from this board except that it has a different URL and software.

And, as far as qualified, expert opinions go, mine are as qualified and expert as Mark's.