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HD Radio opponents-Not ignorant, just unbiased.

DAVID WROTE: "Even in smaller markets, a 5 mv/m signal or better is necessary to get any showing in ratings. It has been proven over and over by Arbitron diarykeepers... real listeners."

OK, let's talk smaller markets then.

Victor Valley, CA Metro - Spring '06 Arbitron:
KFI scores a 6.6 share with a signal UNDER 5 mv/m day and night.
KNX scores a 0.8 share, even with a signal under 1 mv/m day and night.

How about the Santa Barbara, CA Metro - Spring '06 Arbitron:
KNX scores a 1.4 share with a 2 mv/m signal day and night.
KFI gets an Arbitron 0.9 share with 3.5 mv/m contour day and night.

DAVID WROTE: "I don't care about FCC labels on coverage..."

Well, most broadcasters do. They have to care in order to get and keep their licenses.

DAVID WROTE: "KMXE, the dog station you like to refer to..."

You STILL, STILL, STILL will NOT talk about KMXE 830's 50kw non-directional DAYTIME signal. Of course their 20kw directional night-time signal is not as good.
 
DAVID WROTE: "Even in smaller markets, a 5 mv/m signal or better is necessary to get any showing in ratings. It has been proven over and over by Arbitron diarykeepers... real listeners."

OK, let's talk smaller markets then.

Victor Valley, CA Metro - Spring '06 Arbitron:
KFI scores a 6.6 share with a signal UNDER 5 mv/m day and night.

-> As I said, in less noisy markets, there is a lower noise floor. Can't you read? A 6 share there is about 12 people, anyway. And the population is adjacent to LA County... which means it is witning the contours of KFI, not a remote market.

KNX scores a 0.8 share, even with a signal under 1 mv/m day and nig

-> Commuters. Most of the KNX is in car, probably out of market.

How about the Santa Barbara, CA Metro - Spring '06 Arbitron:
KNX scores a 1.4 share with a 2 mv/m signal day and night.

-> All listening verified as being in Coastal ZIPs. KNX's transmitter is nearly lont e coast, and the 10 mv/m on the coast reaches N. of Santa Barbara.

KFI gets an Arbitron 0.9 share with 3.5 mv/m contour day and night.

-> most is in car. Probably commuters into closer areas.

DAVID WROTE: "I don't care about FCC labels on coverage..."

Well, most broadcasters do. They have to care in order to get and keep their licenses.

-> I am not in engineering. In programming, we go by where the signal is big enough to be heard. That is over 10 mv/m for AMs in LA, and 64 dbu for FMs everywhere.

DAVID WROTE: "KMXE, the dog station you like to refer to..."

You STILL, STILL, STILL will NOT talk about KMXE 830's 50kw non-directional DAYTIME signal. Of course their 20kw directional night-time signal is not as good.

-> It is directional vy virtue of terrain, as I have siad. The map lokes like a horribly directional AM:


[/quote]
 
David,

You just won't face up to the facts. Of course a stronger signal = a chance for more listeners. And the noise floor plays a part. But that's not the whole story, as the numbers I posted above bear out. When I put the proof here for everyone to see, you rationalize that it must be out-of-market commuters, etc. In this case, you are arguing against yourself in one of the earlier points we were discussing! 

KFI is the number 3 station 12+ in the Victor Valley Metro with LESS than a 5 mv/m signal. KNX scores a 0.8 share with an under 1 mv/m signal. You argued earlier that precious few commuters drive long distances, that the average commute is under 45 minutes. Most of these diaries are therefore in-market, not distant commuters. You can't have it both ways, David.

By the way, the 2 mv/m signal for KNX and the 3.5 mv/m KFI figure I posted for Santa Barbara were measured along the coast, figures that would be most favorable to you not me.
   
HD Radio blatantly breaks FCC protections and deprives real radio listeners of being able to listen to some of their favorite stations. HD Radio is a pig with lipstick smeared all-over it.
 
You just won't face up to the facts. Of course a stronger signal = a chance for more listeners. And the noise floor plays a part. But that's not the whole story, as the numbers I posted above bear out. When I put the proof here for everyone to see, you rationalize that it must be out-of-market commuters, etc. In this case, you are arguing against yourself in one of the earlier points we were discussing!

-->> I am not theorizing. Nearly all the Victor Valley listening to KFI and all the KNX is in car, ZIP codes unknown. For KFI, the remaining non-car listening is tight in and int he nearest to the LA County line areas. THis can all be taken right out of th emarket report.

KFI is the number 3 station 12+ in the Victor Valley Metro with LESS than a 5 mv/m signal. KNX scores a 0.8 share with an under 1 mv/m signal. You argued earlier that precious few commuters drive long distances, that the average commute is under 45 minutes. Most of these diaries are therefore in-market, not distant commuters. You can't have it both ways, David.

--- Many victor valley residents commute to the IE for work... the Victor Valley has about the highest unemployment of the state of California. Since the KNX and KFI listening is mostly in car, this matches. Additionally, and I will say this for abut the fifth time, the bigger the city, the higher the noise floor. It takes 10 mv/m or over in LA to get into diaries at work or at home. OIn the IE, about the same. But in more rural areas or smaller markets, it is below 10. 5 may even cut it some places, but not at night. Nobody has a 5 mv/m interference free contour in reality in CA, not even KFI, due to Mexican operations

By the way, the 2 mv/m signal for KNX and the 3.5 mv/m KFI figure I posted for Santa Barbara were measured along the coast, figures that would be most favorable to you not me.

-- > That is not what a "real" map shows. Sorry.

--> HD Radio blatantly breaks FCC protections and deprives real radio listeners of being able to listen to some of their favorite stations. HD Radio is a pig with lipstick smeared all-over it.

The FCC has approved it, for FM 24/7 and for daytime AM. It's over.


[/quote]
 
David has been talking out of both sides of his mouth, deftly mixing fact with fiction and ignoring verifiable facts. He takes one side to make a point, then feels free to take the opposite side to make a different point. He makes an excellent debater if you don't pay close enough attention.

I've gone out of my way to make sure that everything that I've posted is verifiable by anyone here. You don't have to "trust me". 

I'm posting this link here because it can be accessed by anyone here. It uses data from the FCC's CDBS AM and FM database to reveal the field strength for any American AM or FM radio station in any zip code in the U-S. This verifies the figures I posted here. Check any zip codes for any station in YOUR local or nearby markets.

http://www.v-soft.com/ZipSignal/default.htm

Look for yourself how many stations show up with listening in other markets. Anyone can also access 12+ Arbitron numbers for any rated U-S market at this link:

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/

As a side note, Univision's "David" is blindly defending HD Radio as his company is going through a controversial sale. At least 12.3 billion dollars is at stake. Two lawsuits have been filed by shareholders against Univision Communications and its board members, alleging they breached their fiduciary duty with their sale agreement. Univision's largest stockholder Jerry Perenchio is a very smart man. He is unloading his company at its peak, before broadband wireless Internet takes off and terrestrial broadcast property valuations really plummet. He stands to pocket at least 1 billion dollars from the deal. It's important that nothing further rocks the boat and none of their initiatives look like losers. That includes their wholesale involvement in HD Radio. If HD Radio is so hot and promises a new age in broadcasting, why the sale? And why now? I hope David's position remains secure. I actually do.

And when all arguments fail to hold water, they resort to this below:

DAVID WROTE: "The FCC has approved it, for FM 24/7 and for daytime AM. It's over."

Not quite yet. If it was really over, he wouldn't be living on this and other boards. Think about it.
 
I'm posting this link here because it can be accessed by anyone here. It uses data from the FCC's CDBS AM and FM database to reveal the field strength for any American AM or FM radio station in any zip code in the U-S. This verifies the figures I posted here. Check any zip codes for any station in YOUR local or nearby markets.

http://www.v-soft.com/ZipSignal/default.htm

---> Again, this is an entertainment site. It does not take into account real coverage based on complex calculations. It only uses the theoretical licence values which are what the FCC uses for inter-station protection.

--- > real coverage usable by the listener is a much more complex issue. I see, at first glance, total shadow areas for KRCC in LA (where you can not hear the station at all) that the signal program shows as over 60 dbu. On AM, I see areas for KTNQ where you could not even hear the station on a Ten Tec 340 that show as over 5 mvm.

Look for yourself how many stations show up with listening in other markets. Anyone can also access 12+ Arbitron numbers for any rated U-S market at this link:

--- > As I said, neraly all "other market" listening is in adjacent markets that get decent coverage from signals in the first market, like Riverside / San Berdoo with LA signals. This is almost always listening well within the "above the noise" signal level for AMs (about 10 mv/m in big cities, somewhat less in smaller ones, and even less in quiet rural areas. It is generally above the 64 dbu in FM, as Arbitron proves that nearly no listening is done outside that contour.

--> There are only about 200 stations that get listening more outside adjacent markets. These are ones like WGN, which has a good signal and is in an area of great ground condutivity. In other words, they are listeing to the local, pwoerful, ground signal. Others that do this are KFYR, WBAP, WCCO, KLIF, WOAI, etc. Big AMs in areas of great conductivity. On FM, this can happen, but not often, with stations that are so big and high up they put over a 60 dbu over multiple markets... like the Poland Spring, ME station does. KLVE and KRTH in LA often show int he Palm Springs book, with tiny numbers. What used to be KRUZ in Santa Barbara shows in Bakersfield, Santa Maria, SLO and Oxnard; it is a superpower FM. And so on.

-- But the key issue is signal. If there is not enough, they don't get listening.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/

---> and that supports my point. Of course, in radio, 12+ ratings are useless, which is why they give them away and charge an LA station $1 million a year for "the rest of the story."

As a side note, Univision's "David" is blindly defending HD Radio as his company is going through a controversial sale. At least 12.3 billion dollars is at stake. Two lawsuits have been filed by shareholders against Univision Communications and its board members, alleging they breached their fiduciary duty with their sale agreement. Univision's largest stockholder Jerry Perenchio is a very smart man. He is unloading his company at its peak, before broadband wireless Internet takes off and terrestrial broadcast property valuations really plummet. He stands to pocket at least 1 billion dollars from the deal. It's important that nothing further rocks the boat and none of their initiatives look like losers. That includes their wholesale involvement in HD Radio. If HD Radio is so hot and promises a new age in broadcasting, why the sale? And why now? I hope David's position remains secure. I actually do.

----> Jerry is 74 and doing estate planning. Hispanic use of Internet is very low, because there is far less relevant content. We are the only growth sector in the entire radio and tv industry. A good time to sell, when the potential for future growth can be seen by investors (still 40% of Fortune 500 advertisers do not use Spanish... what an enormous upside!) Every large deal has complications, and this is no different.

And when all arguments fail to hold water, they resort to this below:

DAVID WROTE: "The FCC has approved it, for FM 24/7 and for daytime AM. It's over."

Not quite yet. If it was really over, he wouldn't be living on this and other boards. Think about it.

--- > FM HD is so simple it requires only a notification. No permanent standard exists (new technology, etc) because it is evolving. Same with AM for daytime broadcasgting. Notify and go on. No permit needed. The investment in HD infrastructure has to exceed $200 million now. Fait acomplit.


--- > This actually started some time ago on some DX message boards, where some fine radio people like the Mays brothers, were accused of being cheats,, and radio was disparged daily over HD. It coonvinced me that a small group of frustrated DXers with nothing else to do have made this into an issue when it is not. So, to have some fun and do some good for radio, I decided to speak out with the broadcaster´s side of this.

----> There are still lies, such as one post suggesting engineers were not consulted on HD, and the ongoing exaggeration of useful coverage and the failure to understand skywave is dead. So I keep posting. Maybe I read don Quixote de la Mancha too many times...
 
Boy someone is sensitive. Should I remove the bookmark now?
 
I just wanted to point out your goof.

I posted the link.

David tried to demean it.

Thinking that David posted the link, you then stated that it was a great link.

I'm just pointing all of this out and thanking you!

And it IS a great link. You are very welcome!
 
Well I'd have to look at the numbers as they relate to reality but it is a good site listing every station audible at a certain postal zip code. That is a good thing to have and in my area, there are no first or second adjacents audible.
 
David tried to demean it.

--> I just compared real field strength readings on an AM with the site. Some were off by as much as 6 db.
--> I compared a Longley Rice and actual measurements for two FMs and found differences of as much as 18 db in some areas.
 
Boy oh boy, if my dream came true we'd be putting new IBOC installations in the towns which these guys live in. Think their irrational now? :)
 
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