HD Radio Tuning Instructions... ->(Thanx Cumulus)

[JRZFM100]

Cumulus continues to educate listeners on how to find / tune in KLIF on 96.3's HD-2. This is no doubt due to the recent realignment of KLIF to 96.3 HD-2.

I think the promos, as they contain detailed instructions, are the most helpful instructions I've ever heard.

Suggestions for Cumulus and others:

(1) Post a market specific program guide for your HD-2 and HD-3 stations, along with tuning instructions (eg: tune to 96.3 and press seek to get HD-2), on all stations web sites in PDF format.

(2) Publish a simple, FREE generic HD radio users guide via PDF AND give it an ASIN/ISBN number suitable for both PDF delivery and delivery to e-readers; use Amazon and BN.com as distribution channels for electronic docs w/ ASIN. There would be no cost, free HD radio primers.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Cumulus continues to educate listeners on how to find / tune in KLIF on 96.3's HD-2. This is no doubt due to the recent realignment of KLIF to 96.3 HD-2.

I think the promos, as they contain detailed instructions, are the most helpful instructions I've ever heard.

Suggestions for Cumulus and others:

(1) Post a market specific program guide for your HD-2 and HD-3 stations, along with tuning instructions (eg: tune to 96.3 and press seek to get HD-2), on all stations web sites in PDF format.

(2) Publish a simple, FREE generic HD radio users guide via PDF AND give it an ASIN/ISBN number suitable for both PDF delivery and delivery to e-readers; use Amazon and BN.com as distribution channels for electronic docs w/ ASIN. There would be no cost, free HD radio primers.

The problem is that so many of the HD-2 and HD-3 channels go down, sometimes for days at a time. It would be very counter productive to introduce the public to this aspect of HD radio. Better to leave it up to the few HD radio fans to live within its limitations until an FM translator can be found for KLIF.

 

[JRZFM100]

On Point 1:

The problem is that so many of the HD-2 and HD-3 channels go down, sometimes for days at a time

->I have noticed this also here (including a loss of delay synchronization that can go uncorrected thru a three day holiday weekend in the case of KVIL?!) , and I'm told that sub channel outages occur in market ranks larger than DFW, up to and including NYC.

I'd think this would be a problem only found in markets in the bottom 200, since allowing such a process defect to continue is characteristic of bottom 200 thinking.

On Point 2:

It would be very counter productive to introduce the public to this aspect of HD radio. Better to leave it up to the few HD radio fans to live within its limitations until an FM translator can be found for KLIF.

->From the broadcast industry paradigm (the paradigm looking out from behind Lew's desk) one of the largest problems with the roll out of HD sub channels is the broadcasters complete unfamiliarity with customer adoption behaviors and life cycles, aka "Crossing the Chasm" by Geoff A Moore.

Hey, I just looked, it's available in paperback now.... at the nice price of $12.23. Here's the link-
http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chas...1362239135&sr=1-1&keywords=crossing+the+chasm

 

[radiosanchez]

Did anything replace KLIF on 93.3-2??

I sure miss the old all-90s "Energy" format that ran on 93.3-2 when I was in Dallas a few years ago....

 

[Jay Walker]

With my experience in building a number of HD stations in DFW, I can say with a certain amount of certainty when the Analog FM and HD transmitter sync is off by eight seconds or more the reason is the analog FM is running on the Auxiliary transmission while the HD is still on the main site. To the best of my knowledge there is only one HD equipped station in DFW with a back up HD transmitter, however it is collocated with the main on the main transmission site.

AS most of the major player FM stations are on community antenna systems/towers in Cedar Hill, there are instances where the tower site owner will enforce a power down for repair or spectral measurements. When that happens the FM analogs on that tower will move operations to their auxiliary sites. One particular master antenna system in Dallas has separate analog and HD antennas. This allows the HD stations on that site the ability to remain on-line delivering the HD-2/3 service at the expense of FM/HD diversity blending.

Jay Walker

 

[Jay Walker]

Too continue...

In the example cited regarding KVIL, I am aware that there was extensive rebuilding of the combiner underway in recent weeks by the tower owner. It of course affected the other tenants on that particular combiner as well.

As there are no backups for the HD transmitters in 99% of the stations in Dallas, outages will occur. The beauty of DFW is it is a big enough market that pretty much all of the FM stations have at least one and as many as three backup Analog transmitters. Because of that level of investment, As a consequence we have come to rely and depend on continuous service from FM 24/7/365.

Currently the ROI does not support the additional $100k+ for each backup HD system. BUT that will change over time. Remember it wasn't that long ago when a person mentioned "FM" the average person said "What's that?" Ratings penetration for FM didn't really become major until the mid 1970's so if HD survives it will probably take a similar amount of time. FM after migrating to 88-108 still took over 30 years to become mainstream and even that was with the advantage of limit entertainment choices back then.

Jay Walker

 

[JRZFM100]

The KVIL sync loss experience to which I refer occurred in end of summer 2010, on Labor Day weekend I believe.

And, since it started on a Saturday afternoon and was not corrected until the SOB (start of business / don't know if CBS uses that acronym) on Tuesday following a holiday weekend, it had every appearance that the HD-1 just wasn't important enough to re-sync until first thing after a three day holiday played out.

It had every appearance that KVIL's HD-1 just wasn't important enough to address as an emergent situation.

Because of the limitations of IBOC's blend to digital strategy, the blending of non-delayed analog is very contrasting to the delayed HD-1 for users operating receivers in HD mode, not only in first acquisition, but also during multipath and signal fades. (try driving on I-30 around broadcast hill in FtW) I can imagine it disoriented the layman (or they though the CD was hanging up).

Perhaps a well forethought, proactive strategy, like leaving the HD-1 off the air for the duration of analog backup use, thus preventing the listeners radio from blending back and forth (which reminds me of the term political flip-flopping), would be a more cogent approach?

 

[Jay Walker]

If I recall correctly there was antenna work going on over the Labor Day weekend. I agree that blending is critical and if given a choice I always terminate HD operation if sync becomes an issue.

There are some instances involving live play by play where the FM is ran non-delay. I disabled the bit flag for blending when I was in that situation. Of course then when a HD listener is driving and goes over the digital cliff, they get silence. Sometimes you just can't win ;D

 

[JRZFM100]

If I recall correctly there was antenna work going on over the Labor Day weekend. I agree that blending is critical and if given a choice I always terminate HD operation if sync becomes an issue.

-> I've made a choice to just terminate HD reception for good; luckily my car radio has the option to do analog only, HD-Blend, or HD-Only. One of the few car radios with this feature, so I picked it just for that reason. And I am glad. Goodbye HD!

There are some instances involving live play by play where the FM is ran non-delay. I disabled the bit flag for blending when I was in that situation. Of course then when a HD listener is driving and goes over the digital cliff, they get silence. Sometimes you just can't win

->That is very interesting, the effect that HD reception has at the limit of HD's useful coverage radius. Weatherford, Texas, is a great example. Analog is seemingly fine (although it may be in high-blend analog) but digital will picket fence on I-30 approaching and definitely beyond the first Weatherford exit. That is really funny when trying to listen to HD-2 or HD-3. It's there and then it's gone...

There was a discussion regarding motivation for audio processing at Z-100 NY back in 1983... I have this second hand so I'm not sure if J.R. Nelson or Frank Foti made this comment: Z-100 was processed such that the Z would sound good on a car stereo while driving down Route 3 at 60 MPH with your windows open right next to an eighteen wheeler. (I believe this statement should properly be attributed to the late JR Nelson.) (Foti can correct me if I am wrong)

So the same situation is still valid today... we still listen while driving cars and usually in and around eighteen wheeler's on highways in the metroplex.

Using JR's logic... can HD radio quality provide the listener any benefit in a mobile environment?

Since it can not, perhaps it offers no advantage to the broadcaster.

The so called improved quality offered by HD-1 can best be appreciated (if at all) by audiophiles in home listening environments. And that really probably only applied to WRR's core audience.

 

[JRZFM100]

Here are my "Sour the Milk" for Analog FM Comments:

The transition in user habits, preferring FM to AM, should provide broadcasters a historical model to examine for anticipating user behavior in transitioning listeners away from AM & FM to HD's-1,2,3.

However, the draw to FM was motivated the clear order of magnitude of improvement in fidelity that FM represented versus AM, in terms of stereo and frequency response and S/N. And everybody could hear it. The difference to the consumer was clear.

If consumers thought [because they could actually hear and make a distinction thru listening to HD] that HD Radio offered the same or a similar order of magnitude jump in improvement versus analog FM quality, there would be similar migration and mass exogenous from FM -to- HD-1.

Currently there is no appreciable improvement for HD-1 versus Analog FM. Most can't discern any difference.

So, now my suggestion:

All FM broadcasters should pull out their DSP based modern multiband processors and revert back to using only Optimod 8000 or earlier technology. UREI LA-4's are fine, Volumemax and Gates limiters from the early 1970's would be great too. (Was there something called a StayMax or is that a pill?)

By doing this, reverting all analog FM quality to 1976-77 standards, would make listeners RUN out to get an HD radio for HD-1. And consumer behaviors would improve, so HD-2 and 3 useage would benefit as well!

I'm not being funny. Broadcasters must sour the milk. It's the only way HD can be made viable!

You know, that really is not a bad idea to motivate listeners to switch. Create "artificial perceptual value" for HD-1 by returning FM analog to 1970's standards.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

->That is very interesting, the effect that HD reception has at the limit of HD's useful coverage radius. Weatherford, Texas, is a great example. Analog is seemingly fine (although it may be in high-blend analog) but digital will picket fence on I-30 approaching and definitely beyond the first Weatherford exit. That is really funny when trying to listen to HD-2 or HD-3. It's there and then it's gone...

This closely matches my results in Houston. About 70 mile range for HD. The thing is - that was about the range of FM stereo reception in early car AM / FM car radios. Technology improved to the point where it approached 130 miles, even much farther in some cases. So I assume that if HD had caught on with the public, a similar improvement would be made over the coming years.

HD-2,3 dropouts are extremely annoying. With static you have some warning you are approaching the limit, and some idea when improving signal will brind it back. With HD it is just on and off, then off. I find it extremely distracting as a driver to have the audio suddenly disappear, then abruptly re-appear. AM is even worse, before the last HD AM in Houston gave up, it would be just fine in HD, then abruptly I would have very loud power line interference. With analog AM - I could hear the power line noise rising and turn down the volume until it passed. Now I just get normal audio - BUZZZZZZZ (at the audio limit) -- then normal audio. VERY annoying and distracting.

 

[JRZFM100]

The thing is - that was about the range of FM stereo reception in early car AM / FM car radios. Technology improved to the point where it approached 130 miles, even much farther in some cases. So I assume that if HD had caught on with the public, a similar improvement would be made over the coming years.

Bing bing bing.. you just rang the bell on this; technology! The TECHNOLOGY IMPROVED over time, no doubt moving along a traditional, predictive technology - innovation S curve. See:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFPbrYh5i2EKiJmAw2ZqAU_l-JErOXOFtLkjPsdzc0hKrLCV3d

But what drives the S Curve? Innovation in the context of (1) fierce competition - of which Ibiquity has had none as a monopoly; (2) Synthesis from the individual creative passion of engineers involved in competition - something which neither Ibiquity nor terrestrial broadcasters possess; (3) Most importantly, user demand. Opps, dittos here too... And that is so extremely lacking!! In the case of HDR, user demand could only result from use. And well...

HD-2,3 dropouts are extremely annoying. With static you have some warning you are approaching the limit, and some idea when improving signal will brind it back. With HD it is just on and off, then off. I find it extremely distracting as a driver to have the audio suddenly disappear, then abruptly re-appear. AM is even worse, before the last HD AM in Houston gave up, it would be just fine in HD, then abruptly I would have very loud power line interference. With analog AM - I could hear the power line noise rising and turn down the volume until it passed. Now I just get normal audio - BUZZZZZZZ (at the audio limit) -- then normal audio. VERY annoying and distracting.

I loved your description... so excellent. With HDR digital, and particularly for HD-2 & HD-3, there exists a binary pair of life and death repeated ad infinitum with nothing in between. For HD's > 1 it's an all or nothing proposition, and that is SO unlike the human experience.

Human's are analogue... flawed, we like the in between. We expect it. And prefer static!!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I loved your description... so excellent. With HDR digital, and particularly for HD-2 & HD-3, there exists a binary pair of life and death repeated ad infinitum with nothing in between. For HD's > 1 it's an all or nothing proposition, and that is SO unlike the human experience.

Human's are analogue... flawed, we like the in between. We expect it. And prefer static!!

There is another aspect of HD that is troublesome. It digs deep into the analog coverage range. KGLK Lake Jackson was a very useful test station, because their HD would be on, then off, then on, etc. Since I make the Dallas / Houston drive frequently, I am familiar with how far the stations go. Prior to any HD, there was a good dividing line at about Centerville. Some went a little farther, some less. But it was - Buffalo - all Dallas. Madisonville, all Houston. Average days year round no skip.

KGLK ran HD, its Northern coverage shrank from Centerville to South of Huntsville. That is HUGE. Because of their frequent shutdowns, I could tell you by Centerville if they were running HD or not - as confirmed by interference on first adjacents. Now they probably don't care much about Centerville, Madisonville, and Huntsville but I guarantee they care about the Woodlands and Conroe, where they would no longer come in on cheap radios. I can prove the care about those markets because they bought 106.9 to cover them again. When all they really needed to do is just shut down HD. And it also has a big impact on building penetration closer in.

So how do Dallas FM's fare? Somewhat better, but their range is still drastically affected. What used to be down to Centerville and in a lot of cases Madisonville is now between Fairfield and Buffalo. Pretty much every DFW since HD was adopted. Still - not serious if you consider Buffalo ratings, but building penetration in downtown Dallas is another matter. I challenge any DFW station engineer to take the drive themself, test the range with HD on, then test it with HD off at a similar time of day. It is repeatable and a profound shrink of range.

I get the same on Houston stations, virtually all are gone just North of Huntsville now.

So the key takeaway from this is that on average what used to be 130 to 140 miles is now 80 to 90, which is not much more than HD reception range of 70 miles. So from blended mono at 90 miles to full HD reception at 70 miles is the new norm. Not bad if you are after an HD system that matches analog coverage, but analog coverage has been gutted in the process. I make this drive a lot, I discount ranges late in the evening and early morning, but mid day it is absolutely repeatable and a stunning indictment of the engineering involved in setting up this system. Bad engineering through and through.

 

[JRZFM100]

Okay, that's a biggie. I'll need some time to dig in and think about the big picture as to why.

Here's a synopsis of what you're saying very concisely for the less technical minded (yes, for the GM's following!):

---
1) IBOC activation/operation noticeably degrades the usable coverage radius of analogue FM.

2) You have observed this along I-45 between Houston and Dallas.

3) While degradation of the absolute coverage radius along the I-45 corridor is negligible, the corresponding degradation of coverage radius along desired azimuths, in the direction of desired outlying population in any respective market, is highly critical. (negative implications for Conroe & Woodlands in the case of Houston)

4) Accordingly, the degradation to analogue FM signal strength caused by IBOC operation has a serious and direct consequence that requires separate, special consideration for inner city building penetration. (critical negative effect for downtown and other in-building office listeners)
---

Wow, that is an astonishing observation that I have never, ever heard before.

My gut reaction says to act to quantify this with repeat measurements using two test stations of known integrity (operating at verified 100% ERP each time), one in Dallas and another in Houston.

So, get two stations from the same group owner, turn IBOC off and complete multiple runs using an Audemat or similar mobile measurement system to collect signal strength data for analogue only operation.

Basically, drive from Cedar Hill to Missouri City, and measure the same two stations say seven separate times, analogue only.

Then perform a separate set of seven Dallas to Houston runs for the same stations with IBOC activated.

Take all of the data sets and perform basic statistical analysis - at minimum, discard statistical outliers, compare and contrast averages, maxima and minima of signal strength to determine benchmark locations (the contour radius) for the two stations operating in both IBOC On and IBOC Off conditions to draw a quantitative conclusion.

Doing this would enable you for sure to see the location of various contour radius(s) for signal thresholds (70, 60, 50, 40 dBu) which would in turn allow you to roughly estimate the effect of reduction in analogue ERP when operating in IBOC.

Okay, let's say we've got the data... who ya gonna call? Ibiquity? Nooo. We would need a consultant from Gerogia Tech's rad lab to validate everything.

 

[texasstooge]

Did anything replace KLIF on 93.3-2??

I sure miss the old all-90s "Energy" format that ran on 93.3-2 when I was in Dallas a few years ago....

No. They just shut down KLIF's HD2 subchannel altogether.

 

[JRZFM100]

RBC5-

You have raised very good issues concerning the impingement of analogue signal strength resulting from digital operation. Almost nobody would pay close enough attention. You have a unique situation driving the I-45 corridor. I wouldn't have caught this myself.

I posted your comments and my comments on the R-D Engineering board. Somewhat surprisingly there is not very much interest in your observations over there. Guess they're all busy trying to keep MCI reel to reel machines functional. [I'm being real factitious... that was a big time drain and pain in the ass in the 1980's.] They all have very seriously constrained time and material resources without MCI issues for sure.

Most importantly, the question you pose is bigger than broadcast engineering and would require expertise in measurement, quantification, interpretation and conclusion from outside experts in academia. I'm still thinking P.E. / PhD consultants who specialize in RF at Georgia Tech would be a good place to start.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

My gut reaction says to act to quantify this with repeat measurements using two test stations of known integrity (operating at verified 100% ERP each time), one in Dallas and another in Houston.

So, get two stations from the same group owner, turn IBOC off and complete multiple runs using an Audemat or similar mobile measurement system to collect signal strength data for analogue only operation.

Basically, drive from Cedar Hill to Missouri City, and measure the same two stations say seven separate times, analogue only.

Then perform a separate set of seven Dallas to Houston runs for the same stations with IBOC activated.

Take all of the data sets and perform basic statistical analysis - at minimum, discard statistical outliers, compare and contrast averages, maxima and minima of signal strength to determine benchmark locations (the contour radius) for the two stations operating in both IBOC On and IBOC Off conditions to draw a quantitative conclusion.

Doing this would enable you for sure to see the location of various contour radius(s) for signal thresholds (70, 60, 50, 40 dBu) which would in turn allow you to roughly estimate the effect of reduction in analogue ERP when operating in IBOC.

Okay, let's say we've got the data... who ya gonna call? Ibiquity? Nooo. We would need a consultant from Gerogia Tech's rad lab to validate everything.

NO! I think the problem is that iBiquity and station engineers used spectrum analyzers, not ordinary receivers, in their tests! A spectrum analyzer, with its narrow response, may show no difference. What I think is happening is that the sidebands are confusing the AGC circuitry in receivers. This means there is nothing wrong with the station, but the transmission system is self-jamming the AGC of receivers. An HD radio with adaptive IF may not show the result either, because the smallest bin narrows response to 60 kHz or so, enough to miss the HD sidebands.

If you want to replicate the results, you have to duplicate the complete system, including the receiver. I have a feeling just about any HD car radio will do - but you need to pay attention to the antenna. I don't think shark fin or nub antennas will give as good a results, although they may be scalable. Do the test on days dominated by dry high pressure, middle of the day to get rid of any skip effects, or the results won't be repeatable. I've done things like KGLK in Ennis, KLUV on Hwy 290, etc - but that was skip. You need to pick times and days where there is no skip to prejudice the results.

 

[Kent]

KGLK ran HD, its Northern coverage shrank from Centerville to South of Huntsville. That is HUGE. Because of their frequent shutdowns, I could tell you by Centerville if they were running HD or not - as confirmed by interference on first adjacents. Now they probably don't care much about Centerville, Madisonville, and Huntsville but I guarantee they care about the Woodlands and Conroe, where they would no longer come in on cheap radios. I can prove the care about those markets because they bought 106.9 to cover them again. When all they really needed to do is just shut down HD. And it also has a big impact on building penetration closer in.

The Woodlands and Conroe have never been inside 107.5's 60 dBu signal contour, which is where 95% of listening occurs. So, yes, they care about those areas and needed to use 106.9 to fill them. They probably would have done so regardless of whether or not they were running HD. Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing with your assessment that the signal range degrades. I'm simply saying that people in those areas were probably rarely, if ever, listening to 107.5 and had already been deemed by the FCC as not entitled to receive that station before HD was even a concept.

I get the same on Houston stations, virtually all are gone just North of Huntsville now.

Huntsville is also well outside the 60 dBu signal of almost all of the Houston stations. I believe only 106.9 and 97.1 cover Huntsville with a 60 dBu signal.

So the key takeaway from this is that on average what used to be 130 to 140 miles is now 80 to 90, which is not much more than HD reception range of 70 miles. So from blended mono at 90 miles to full HD reception at 70 miles is the new norm.

A 60 dBu signal contour, which, again, is where 95% of listening occurs, normally doesn't extend much beyond 60 miles from the tower. In other words, those stations have so few listeners even 80 miles away from the tower, they don't likely care that the signal degrades at that range.

 

[JRZFM100]

What I think is happening is that the sidebands are confusing the AGC circuitry in receivers. This means there is nothing wrong with the station, but the transmission system is self-jamming the AGC of receivers.

If you want to replicate the results, you have to duplicate the complete system, including the receiver.

Do the test on days dominated by dry high pressure, middle of the day to get rid of any skip effects, or the results won't be repeatable.

You need to pick times and days where there is no skip to prejudice the results.

If the way the receiver front end performs in 'analog+HD' versus 'analog only' is the starting point of concern, I'd say this should be a much smaller problem in scale to nail down.

And I'd also say that Ibiquity should be fully capable of proofing this out... if they were interested

You could achieve ideal environmental conditions and complete repeatability by conducting small scale tests at very low power using only an HD Exciter + HD Receiver with respective antennae situated inside an anechoic chamber. And you could take a broad sampling cross section of HD receivers on a bench to characterize their AGC performance for 'Analog Only' and 'Analog+HD'

Don't know about modern chip sets, particularly for HD, but I believe you used to have agc voltage available on a pin out.... in the "thru-hole DIP days of components".

What you suggest is much more plausible. And it could be easily investigated in small scale by Ibiquity.

 

[JRZFM100]

And forget the expensive anechoic chamber time even....

This could be run right on a bench with HD Exciter running very low power direct connect to your choice of receivers connected through an attenuator.

It could be done in Cleburne even!! (I used to work at Marti Electronics fresh out of engineering school... they had most of the equipment, less the Ibiquity gear which wasn't invented yet)

(and yes... they are gone... moved to quincy)