HD Radio vs analog poll

[SUPERCASTER]

Please listen and watch this comparative demonstration. Which radio sounds the best?
Please vote on this thread.

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JqzgVSzjjc

HD Radio, ha, ha. This is progress?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

HD Radio jams other stations:
Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es55grqKe2I

 

[Savage]

Hmm. Let's see now. Is there a box I can check to vote for the death of WBZ??

 

[KB1OKL]

Hmm. Let's see now. Is there a box I can check to vote for the death of WBZ??

We can dream can't we? WBZ sounds like krap in both analog and glorious IBOC. Their IBOC was off a few weeks ago for about a day, they used an auxiliary transmitter and the station sounded better, I sent them a congratulatory e-mail on their much improved sound without IBOC which they never answered.
I vote for the Zenith.

 

[BRNout]

Hmm. Let's see now. Is there a box I can check to vote for the death of WBZ??

You know Bob, I had to take a quick business trip over to the Buffalo/Niagara area a couple of weeks ago (a brief 'respite' from being out west) and was shocked to find HD hash all over the AM dial during the time period just before the sun sets. Particularly bad was the zone between 1000 and 1100 kHz - which I know includes your station. Not only was WBZ's hash pounding in (and I was staying on Grand Island) while it was still light, but so was hash from KDKA, WTIC, WBAL and others. Essentially it seemed like radio's answer to mutually assured destruction.

We often complain about our locals blotting out previous dx targets - but in this case there was NOT ONE local running IBOC in this section of the band. It was all skywave. And, even with their strong signal, WBZ had the infernal buzz under their signal all night - presumably from KDKA. The Red Sox game I wanted to hear on previously clear WTIC was buzzed over and frequently jammed by buzz from WBAL and (to a lesser extent) KYW. This entire portion of the band was decimated with hash!

I honestly hope that you'll be able to take CBS Radio and Ibiquity to court over this. Because the hash I heard from basically 7:00 pm onward around your frequency of 1040 was horrible. I'd happily don a tie and testify in court on your behalf!!!

 

[4dude]

Even ANALOG stations on the air today ARE NOT ANALOG anymore

Stations play CDs instead of records resulting in the same digital sound: CRAP!!

 

[Play Freebird]

Here's a recent video that shows how Congress, the FCC, and the NAB decide on interference issues.

This clip is about eight minutes long and the discussion deals mainly with third-adjacent LPFMs (which, if permitted on the same zero-interference-population basis as third-adjacent translators, shouldn't pose a significant threat IMHO) and briefly touches upon the FM IBOC power increase.

PA Rep. Mike Doyle asks the questions. Peter Doyle represents the FCC, and southern belle Miss Beasley represents the NAB. Around 5:45 into the clip, Peter Doyle gets a little worked up about the FM digital power increase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihSowebyCT0

 

[4dude]

Around 5:45 into the clip, Peter Doyle gets a little worked up about the FM digital power increase.

Ah man!!

 

[radioskeptic]

It was fun watching that FCC apparatchik squirm!

 

[Ai4i]

How come I can park next to a full class C station and have no problem listening to a SECOND adjacent channel station which transmits from fifty miles away?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

How come I can park next to a full class C station and have no problem listening to a SECOND adjacent channel station which transmits from fifty miles away?

The maximum radiation from a class C FM station typically does not occur at the base of it's tower, but some distance away. The multi-bay antennas used concentrate RF signal more toward the horizon.
These FM antennas must (by law) limit harmful radiation toward the ground to avoid excessive RF exposure to the local population.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/software/fmmodel/

 

[Ai4i]

The maximum radiation from a class C FM station typically does not occur at the base of it's tower, but some distance away...limit harmful radiation toward the ground to avoid excessive RF exposure to the local population.

The point I am making is that few of us use receivers from the post WW-2 vacuum tube days and few of us use receivers of such low quality that third adjacent or even second adjacent channels treat our equipment any differently than stations half way across the band. A better example than the one I used might be that I can drive around a several square mile area in which a dozen and a half class C, C0, and C1 stations, all four channels apart, present no issue with my listening to more distant stations, just two channels between them.

Of course, the same can be said for AM stations. No one would say that AM's could not be placed fewer than four channels apart in today's world.

When rules are put into place, those who benifit will fight to keep them even when their only purpose becomes to reduce competition.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

The maximum radiation from a class C FM station typically does not occur at the base of it's tower, but some distance away...limit harmful radiation toward the ground to avoid excessive RF exposure to the local population.

The point I am making is that few of us use receivers from the post WW-2 vacuum tube days and few of us use receivers of such low quality that third adjacent or even second adjacent channels treat our equipment any differently than stations half way across the band. A better example than the one I used might be that I can drive around a several square mile area in which a dozen and a half class C, C0, and C1 stations, all four channels apart, present no issue with my listening to more distant stations, just two channels between them.

Of course, the same can be said for AM stations. No one would say that AM's could not be placed fewer than four channels apart in today's world.

When rules are put into place, those who benifit will fight to keep them even when their only purpose becomes to reduce competition.

I have no problem receiving short spaced FM analog stations on 2nd adjacent channels even less then 40 miles apart. They are all over the most populated areas of the country, especially in the north east. For example Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Easton, Allentown, Reading, etc.

Now add HD radio and the 2nd adjacent channel spaced analog stations try to "share" the same 1st adjacent channels with their HD radio digital signals, creating all kinds of havoc.

It's the same problem with AM HD stations that hiss all over other adjacent channels.

 

[audiophile.]

It was fun watching that FCC apparatchik squirm!

I love it....apparatchik!

Umm, I'm not.....the ummm, I, I, I, don't really understand....

"Aaaah that's a question of digital to analog inteference.....aaaa" :

 

[Ai4i]

Is it untrue that HD FM stations are no wider than analogue stations?
The charts indicate that analogue stations occasionally or rarely peak out to 100 KHz each way, while digital stations constantly peak out to 100 KHz each way, but ultimately, neither peaks under or over that level. Also, with today's processing, occasionally/rarely means no more than a few dozen times per second! If you do not believe this, you can ask Mr. Struble!

 

[pocket-radio]

The demo should have also included AM stereo.

 

[KB1OKL]

The point I am making is that few of us use receivers from the post WW-2 vacuum tube days and few of us use receivers of such low quality that third adjacent or even second adjacent channels treat our equipment any differently than stations half way across the band.

I use them all the time and they are of very high quality and many will compare favorably with the best of today.

 

[XavierRenegade]

The maximum radiation from a class C FM station typically does not occur at the base of it's tower, but some distance away...limit harmful radiation toward the ground to avoid excessive RF exposure to the local population.

The point I am making is that few of us use receivers from the post WW-2 vacuum tube days and few of us use receivers of such low quality that third adjacent or even second adjacent channels treat our equipment any differently than stations half way across the band. A better example than the one I used might be that I can drive around a several square mile area in which a dozen and a half class C, C0, and C1 stations, all four channels apart, present no issue with my listening to more distant stations, just two channels between them.

Of course, the same can be said for AM stations. No one would say that AM's could not be placed fewer than four channels apart in today's world.

When rules are put into place, those who benifit will fight to keep them even when their only purpose becomes to reduce competition.

I have no problem receiving short spaced FM analog stations on 2nd adjacent channels even less then 40 miles apart. They are all over the most populated areas of the country, especially in the north east. For example Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Easton, Allentown, Reading, etc.

Now add HD radio and the 2nd adjacent channel spaced analog stations try to "share" the same 1st adjacent channels with their HD radio digital signals, creating all kinds of havoc.

It's the same problem with AM HD stations that hiss all over other adjacent channels.

With the HD signal you are always getting some interference on adjacent channels. I don't think the problem so much is FM. AM I see as a problem with HD. The AM channels are just broadcasting there station signals in HD and not offering any additional content since there are only 1 HD channel for each AM station. FM radio is where it's at and where there are many stations that offer at least 1-2 additional HD channels with different content.

With the spacing on AM if there is an HD signal there can be interference 5khz above or below the channels. This interference can a be problem. In Los Angeles you have KNX 1070 News Radio and at 1080 khz there is a separate Spanish radio station. If they have AM HD stations you could run into a problem with the stations HD signals interfering with each other. Now if KNX is 1070 and the other station was 1090 I don't think it would be such a problem.