H
HerbTarlek
Guest
Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio make satellite radio a non factor?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
> Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio make
> satellite radio a non factor?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer is no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with an average priced receiver and get some of the music and formats that the two satellite companies currently offer. I believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a chance to catch on with the average listener.
> satellite radio a non factor?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer is no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with an average priced receiver and get some of the music and formats that the two satellite companies currently offer. I believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a chance to catch on with the average listener.
Not only what is said below, for each channel they add, the audio quality goes down geometrically. Plus it seems to go back and forth between analog and digital. Folks, this is NOT ready for prime time. WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC stations in Tampa that I know of. 770 in Ft. Myers has also recently lit up. Listen to 89.5 and 89.9 if you live a few miles away from the Riverview tower farm and notice that you can no longer get the adjacent channels. Or you may hear what sounds like electrical noise on AM. That's IBOC. Try tuning 960 or 980 during the day. Same crap. Plus here in Sarasota, you can hear the hiss right on 970 downtown among the tall buildings.
> > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio make
>
> > satellite radio a non factor?
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer is
> no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with an
> average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> formats that the two satellite companies currently offer. I
> believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a
> chance to catch on with the average listener.
>
> > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio make
>
> > satellite radio a non factor?
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer is
> no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with an
> average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> formats that the two satellite companies currently offer. I
> believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a
> chance to catch on with the average listener.
>
Hey guys, is there a good site where I can read up on the technicals behind this planned technology?
> Not only what is said below, for each channel they add, the
> audio quality goes down geometrically. Plus it seems to go
> back and forth between analog and digital. Folks, this is
> NOT ready for prime time. WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
> stations in Tampa that I know of. 770 in Ft. Myers has also
> recently lit up. Listen to 89.5 and 89.9 if you live a few
> miles away from the Riverview tower farm and notice that you
> can no longer get the adjacent channels. Or you may hear
> what sounds like electrical noise on AM. That's IBOC. Try
> tuning 960 or 980 during the day. Same crap. Plus here in
> Sarasota, you can hear the hiss right on 970 downtown among
> the tall buildings.
>
>
>
> > > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio
> make
> >
> > > satellite radio a non factor?
> >
> > Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> > Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer
> is
> > no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with
> an
> > average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> > formats that the two satellite companies currently offer.
> I
> > believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a
>
> > chance to catch on with the average listener.
> >
>
> Not only what is said below, for each channel they add, the
> audio quality goes down geometrically. Plus it seems to go
> back and forth between analog and digital. Folks, this is
> NOT ready for prime time. WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
> stations in Tampa that I know of. 770 in Ft. Myers has also
> recently lit up. Listen to 89.5 and 89.9 if you live a few
> miles away from the Riverview tower farm and notice that you
> can no longer get the adjacent channels. Or you may hear
> what sounds like electrical noise on AM. That's IBOC. Try
> tuning 960 or 980 during the day. Same crap. Plus here in
> Sarasota, you can hear the hiss right on 970 downtown among
> the tall buildings.
>
>
>
> > > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio
> make
> >
> > > satellite radio a non factor?
> >
> > Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> > Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer
> is
> > no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with
> an
> > average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> > formats that the two satellite companies currently offer.
> I
> > believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has a
>
> > chance to catch on with the average listener.
> >
>
http://www.ibiquity.com
Just remember, you will be reading only one side of the story here
> Hey guys, is there a good site where I can read up on the
> technicals behind this planned technology?
>
> > Not only what is said below, for each channel they add,
> the
> > audio quality goes down geometrically. Plus it seems to
> go
> > back and forth between analog and digital. Folks, this is
>
> > NOT ready for prime time. WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
>
> > stations in Tampa that I know of. 770 in Ft. Myers has
> also
> > recently lit up. Listen to 89.5 and 89.9 if you live a
> few
> > miles away from the Riverview tower farm and notice that
> you
> > can no longer get the adjacent channels. Or you may hear
> > what sounds like electrical noise on AM. That's IBOC.
> Try
> > tuning 960 or 980 during the day. Same crap. Plus here
> in
> > Sarasota, you can hear the hiss right on 970 downtown
> among
> > the tall buildings.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio
> > make
> > >
> > > > satellite radio a non factor?
> > >
> > > Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> > > Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer
>
> > is
> > > no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with
>
> > an
> > > average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> > > formats that the two satellite companies currently
> offer.
> > I
> > > believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has
> a
> >
> > > chance to catch on with the average listener.
> > >
> >
>
Just remember, you will be reading only one side of the story here
> Hey guys, is there a good site where I can read up on the
> technicals behind this planned technology?
>
> > Not only what is said below, for each channel they add,
> the
> > audio quality goes down geometrically. Plus it seems to
> go
> > back and forth between analog and digital. Folks, this is
>
> > NOT ready for prime time. WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
>
> > stations in Tampa that I know of. 770 in Ft. Myers has
> also
> > recently lit up. Listen to 89.5 and 89.9 if you live a
> few
> > miles away from the Riverview tower farm and notice that
> you
> > can no longer get the adjacent channels. Or you may hear
> > what sounds like electrical noise on AM. That's IBOC.
> Try
> > tuning 960 or 980 during the day. Same crap. Plus here
> in
> > Sarasota, you can hear the hiss right on 970 downtown
> among
> > the tall buildings.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio
> > make
> > >
> > > > satellite radio a non factor?
> > >
> > > Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> > > Who said anything about commercial free? And the answer
>
> > is
> > > no. Let me know when I can tune into this HD radio with
>
> > an
> > > average priced receiver and get some of the music and
> > > formats that the two satellite companies currently
> offer.
> > I
> > > believe were are a good 3 years before HD radio even has
> a
> >
> > > chance to catch on with the average listener.
> > >
> >
>
Adjacent channel canceling is noticable. When you "seek" on some car stereos, it'll pause for a half second on the adjacent channels to stations that have the technology up and running, strong enough sometimes to even stop the seek. I've noticed it on either side of 101.5 for some time and now I'm getting the same issue on either side of 104.7. Checking that site's list of who's up and running, it says that these stations are indeed on. Some time ago I heard that Cox had been puttng in some digital boards in the studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this technology.
A
altsped
Guest
WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
> stations in Tampa that I know of
Tampa now has SEVEN stations broadcasting HD. 970, 89.7. 94.1, 94.9, 97.1, 101.5 & 104.7 are all on air now. 99.5 will be coming on soon. 102.5, 105.5 & 107.3 will be coming on next year. 820, 88.5, & 90.5 have plans to add HD.
While I did not like HD at first, I have to admit I have heard it on several JVC and Kenwood radios, and it really sounds good. The FM HD sounds better than either Sirus or XM because the data rate is higher. AM HD sounds as good as FM does now.
You can find a list of stations and radios at www.ibiquity.com
> stations in Tampa that I know of
Tampa now has SEVEN stations broadcasting HD. 970, 89.7. 94.1, 94.9, 97.1, 101.5 & 104.7 are all on air now. 99.5 will be coming on soon. 102.5, 105.5 & 107.3 will be coming on next year. 820, 88.5, & 90.5 have plans to add HD.
While I did not like HD at first, I have to admit I have heard it on several JVC and Kenwood radios, and it really sounds good. The FM HD sounds better than either Sirus or XM because the data rate is higher. AM HD sounds as good as FM does now.
You can find a list of stations and radios at www.ibiquity.com
I agree, 96kb IBOC sounds pretty good, but thats not the reason they put it in. They want the extra streams. Since you got only 96kb on FM and about 36 kb on AM, as you split up the bit rate to get more streams, the audio goes to hell in a hurry. They can put about 8 streams on an FM channel, but they sound like a bad cell phone connection. More like Flipper the dolphin underwater. I wasnt aware all those stations were transmitting in IBOC. FM ruins the adjacent channel reception of say the regular Orlando stations one could get, AM IBOC really trashes the adjacents. The only reason FM sounds bad is they squash the audio so hard with processing that there is no dynamic range left and they want to be the loudest on the dial.... Cut those processors back and FM would sound great.
> WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
> > stations in Tampa that I know of
>
> Tampa now has SEVEN stations broadcasting HD. 970, 89.7.
> 94.1, 94.9, 97.1, 101.5 & 104.7 are all on air now. 99.5
> will be coming on soon. 102.5, 105.5 & 107.3 will be coming
> on next year. 820, 88.5, & 90.5 have plans to add HD.
>
> While I did not like HD at first, I have to admit I have
> heard it on several JVC and Kenwood radios, and it really
> sounds good. The FM HD sounds better than either Sirus or XM
> because the data rate is higher. AM HD sounds as good as FM
> does now.
>
> You can find a list of stations and radios at
> www.ibiquity.com
>
> WUSF and WFLA are the only IBOC
> > stations in Tampa that I know of
>
> Tampa now has SEVEN stations broadcasting HD. 970, 89.7.
> 94.1, 94.9, 97.1, 101.5 & 104.7 are all on air now. 99.5
> will be coming on soon. 102.5, 105.5 & 107.3 will be coming
> on next year. 820, 88.5, & 90.5 have plans to add HD.
>
> While I did not like HD at first, I have to admit I have
> heard it on several JVC and Kenwood radios, and it really
> sounds good. The FM HD sounds better than either Sirus or XM
> because the data rate is higher. AM HD sounds as good as FM
> does now.
>
> You can find a list of stations and radios at
> www.ibiquity.com
>
A
altsped
Guest
They can put about 8 streams on an FM channel,
> but they sound like a bad cell phone connection.
I havent heard of anyone wanting to do more than two or three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
> but they sound like a bad cell phone connection.
I havent heard of anyone wanting to do more than two or three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
B
bossmsx
Guest
> I havent heard of anyone wanting to do more than two or
> three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of
> between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
Here in Miami, Beasley's stations, as well as WLRN, the NPR station, are running 2 programs, plus a 3rd lower quality voice grade channel on the Beasley stations...Same went for Beasley's Philly FMs when I was up there...The main one on 1 has the best quality, with number 2 having a very good quality, and offering a format you can't find on regular radio, and number 3 pretty much just a 'test' for right now...WKIS in Miami runs NOAA on their HD-3.
Would be interested in knowing if anyone has ideas as to when WMGG/820 will turn on their HD. That would be a neat one to listen to.
> three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of
> between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
Here in Miami, Beasley's stations, as well as WLRN, the NPR station, are running 2 programs, plus a 3rd lower quality voice grade channel on the Beasley stations...Same went for Beasley's Philly FMs when I was up there...The main one on 1 has the best quality, with number 2 having a very good quality, and offering a format you can't find on regular radio, and number 3 pretty much just a 'test' for right now...WKIS in Miami runs NOAA on their HD-3.
Would be interested in knowing if anyone has ideas as to when WMGG/820 will turn on their HD. That would be a neat one to listen to.
B
bossmsx
Guest
> that Cox had been puttng in some digital boards in the
> studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
> technology.
The digital boards are suggested, but not necessary...I volunteered at WDNA here in Miami, a noncomm, for a few months between gigs, and we were running HD, but we re-did our studios and continued with a fully analog installation...The sound was actually still as impressive (and sometimes actually better) as the other 'big boys' that were running IBOC.
The 'trick'?? We played all the music off of actual CDs, and the stored prerecorded audio was uncompressed .wavs....The problem alot of larger companies will face with upgrading to HD is that they store their audio in compressed formats on their digital on air systems, (ie, MP2), so this 'trashes' what should be a better sounding digital audio chain.
> studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
> technology.
The digital boards are suggested, but not necessary...I volunteered at WDNA here in Miami, a noncomm, for a few months between gigs, and we were running HD, but we re-did our studios and continued with a fully analog installation...The sound was actually still as impressive (and sometimes actually better) as the other 'big boys' that were running IBOC.
The 'trick'?? We played all the music off of actual CDs, and the stored prerecorded audio was uncompressed .wavs....The problem alot of larger companies will face with upgrading to HD is that they store their audio in compressed formats on their digital on air systems, (ie, MP2), so this 'trashes' what should be a better sounding digital audio chain.
> Won't commercial free, subscription fee free HD radio make
> satellite radio a non factor?
>
In my opinion, HD radio has a better quality than the XM system. However, if the HD stations put too many streams on their signal, the audio quality goes downhill quick.
Also my opinion, until HD radios hit the $100 mark, the public won't go for it in a big way. When you can now buy a decent-sounding AM/FM stereo radio with CD & tape player for $50 or less, paying 6x or more for a radio-only set won't generate much interest. Until then, HD is mainly an annoyance. <P ID="signature">______________
DXer Peter Atkinson</P>
> satellite radio a non factor?
>
In my opinion, HD radio has a better quality than the XM system. However, if the HD stations put too many streams on their signal, the audio quality goes downhill quick.
Also my opinion, until HD radios hit the $100 mark, the public won't go for it in a big way. When you can now buy a decent-sounding AM/FM stereo radio with CD & tape player for $50 or less, paying 6x or more for a radio-only set won't generate much interest. Until then, HD is mainly an annoyance. <P ID="signature">______________
DXer Peter Atkinson</P>
A
altsped
Guest
> > that Cox had been puttng in some digital boards in the
> > studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
>
I understand that Cox's new studios are 100% uncompressed digital.
> > studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
>
I understand that Cox's new studios are 100% uncompressed digital.
What is really a shame is if the stations would back off the processor quite a bit, the analog would sound as good or better than the HD... No artifacts on HD.
But wait till thay start smashing the HD audio.... then you will really hear the artifacts. FM is linear from 30 to 13 khz. HD is not anywhere near that quality.
> > I havent heard of anyone wanting to do more than two or
> > three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of
> > between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
>
> Here in Miami, Beasley's stations, as well as WLRN, the NPR
> station, are running 2 programs, plus a 3rd lower quality
> voice grade channel on the Beasley stations...Same went for
> Beasley's Philly FMs when I was up there...The main one on 1
> has the best quality, with number 2 having a very good
> quality, and offering a format you can't find on regular
> radio, and number 3 pretty much just a 'test' for right
> now...WKIS in Miami runs NOAA on their HD-3.
>
> Would be interested in knowing if anyone has ideas as to
> when WMGG/820 will turn on their HD. That would be a neat
> one to listen to.
>
But wait till thay start smashing the HD audio.... then you will really hear the artifacts. FM is linear from 30 to 13 khz. HD is not anywhere near that quality.
> > I havent heard of anyone wanting to do more than two or
> > three programs on HD, that still leaves a sample rate of
> > between 32 & 48k which still sounds great.
>
> Here in Miami, Beasley's stations, as well as WLRN, the NPR
> station, are running 2 programs, plus a 3rd lower quality
> voice grade channel on the Beasley stations...Same went for
> Beasley's Philly FMs when I was up there...The main one on 1
> has the best quality, with number 2 having a very good
> quality, and offering a format you can't find on regular
> radio, and number 3 pretty much just a 'test' for right
> now...WKIS in Miami runs NOAA on their HD-3.
>
> Would be interested in knowing if anyone has ideas as to
> when WMGG/820 will turn on their HD. That would be a neat
> one to listen to.
>
Agreed, cascading codecs really sound like hell. internet delivered mp3 spots, compressed audio, digital consoles, digital STL's all cascade and the end result really sounds like hell. I cant listen to satellite radio for long because of the artifacts and poor fidelity. Each person is different. My belief is that HD radio will really afffect TSL.
> > that Cox had been puttng in some digital boards in the
> > studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
>
> > technology.
>
> The digital boards are suggested, but not necessary...I
> volunteered at WDNA here in Miami, a noncomm, for a few
> months between gigs, and we were running HD, but we re-did
> our studios and continued with a fully analog
> installation...The sound was actually still as impressive
> (and sometimes actually better) as the other 'big boys' that
> were running IBOC.
>
> The 'trick'?? We played all the music off of actual CDs, and
> the stored prerecorded audio was uncompressed .wavs....The
> problem alot of larger companies will face with upgrading to
> HD is that they store their audio in compressed formats on
> their digital on air systems, (ie, MP2), so this 'trashes'
> what should be a better sounding digital audio chain.
>
> > that Cox had been puttng in some digital boards in the
> > studios on 4th Street and I'm wondering if it was for this
>
> > technology.
>
> The digital boards are suggested, but not necessary...I
> volunteered at WDNA here in Miami, a noncomm, for a few
> months between gigs, and we were running HD, but we re-did
> our studios and continued with a fully analog
> installation...The sound was actually still as impressive
> (and sometimes actually better) as the other 'big boys' that
> were running IBOC.
>
> The 'trick'?? We played all the music off of actual CDs, and
> the stored prerecorded audio was uncompressed .wavs....The
> problem alot of larger companies will face with upgrading to
> HD is that they store their audio in compressed formats on
> their digital on air systems, (ie, MP2), so this 'trashes'
> what should be a better sounding digital audio chain.
>
B
bossmsx
Guest
> What is really a shame is if the stations would back off the
> processor quite a bit, the analog would sound as good or
> better than the HD... No artifacts on HD.
> But wait till thay start smashing the HD audio.... then you
> will really hear the artifacts. FM is linear from 30 to 13
> khz. HD is not anywhere near that quality.
The shameful 'trick' is that some FMs are actually destroying their analog audio so the digital sounds 'better'...Y-100 in Miami is doing this...They've overprocessed the analog so much that when the radio blends to digital you can't help but say "Wow, this digital stuff really IS something!!", when it's an improvement alright, but not as marked as the Y is forcing it to be.
I will say this though, the IBOC codec is more efficient to my ears, and at 96kbps does better than Eureka-147 at higher bitrates.
> processor quite a bit, the analog would sound as good or
> better than the HD... No artifacts on HD.
> But wait till thay start smashing the HD audio.... then you
> will really hear the artifacts. FM is linear from 30 to 13
> khz. HD is not anywhere near that quality.
The shameful 'trick' is that some FMs are actually destroying their analog audio so the digital sounds 'better'...Y-100 in Miami is doing this...They've overprocessed the analog so much that when the radio blends to digital you can't help but say "Wow, this digital stuff really IS something!!", when it's an improvement alright, but not as marked as the Y is forcing it to be.
I will say this though, the IBOC codec is more efficient to my ears, and at 96kbps does better than Eureka-147 at higher bitrates.
- Status