• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

HD Radio

Everyones talking about it , But no one talks about the formatHow many stations ? What kind of formats? The cost of the device ?Will it give XM a run for the money ?Scott Strong.. remember Murder she wrote ? (private joke) :pWhat about the studios for the HD ? in house ? I have lots of stupid questions , and I'm brave ...Ron Clark... Weatherford, TEXAS
 
Do not live in Dallas from Houston HD radio will never catch on only 2 stores sell HD radios & a few onlines stores do. From what I am hearing most of the HD stations suck not worth it to get a HD radio, I am guessing 5 or so years HD radio will be dead
 
So far HD radio is just making the signals of the AM stations using it sound worse.Maybe if it ends up really succeeding I'll be able to tape more than one broadcast on my quadrophonic tape deck.
 
The only way HD Radio is ever going to catch on is if the auto manufacturers begin to offer it standard with a new car purchase.I'm old enough to remember the 1960s, when AM radio was king. In the early to mid 1960s, new cars would come standard with an AM radio. If you wanted FM Stereo, it was available, but at an extra charge that a lot of people declined at purchase.By the late 60s to early 70s, AM / FM Stereo radios became standard on new cars, and it was a few dollars extra if you wanted an 8-track -- and then a stereo cassette as we got into the mid to late 1970s.I think it was around 1972 or 73 when local FM stations would offer promotions with an adapter you could purchase to allow you to listen to FM Mono through your AM car radio. I had one of those adapters in my car for a couple of years.In the mid to late 60s and very early 70s, your average middle class family had an FM Stereo inside the home -- but never really listened to it. I lived in Arlington, where we could pick up both KLIF from Dallas and KFJZ from Fort Worth. 99% of the time, my friends and I would listen to KLIF, and we used to joke about how "old" Mark E Baby was getting on KFJZ, and how long it was until he was replaced with someone younger. There was even one day when one of my junior high teachers came into the room, and we had a portable radio on. She said, "Mark E Baby?!? He's still around?!?"At any rate, when they began to offer AM / FM as standard on the new cars, you could tell the difference when listening to KLIF. Every time you turned around, another KLIF deejay would announce, "Today will be my last day on KLIF."Despite the turnover, and the fact that the station was obviously suffering, it wasn't until the new "Z-97" FM went commercial free for several weeks, that loyal KLIF listeners finally switched. I can still recall announcements from program director Harry Nelson that Z-97's antics were "unfair" competition.Recently, I've been noticing some new car commercials where the manufacturers are throwing in a Sirius satellite radio receiver with a free three year subscription. THAT looks like the type of thing that will probably catch on. In a year or two, everyone with a brand new car will be listening to satellite, and a lot of their friends who ride with them from time to time will decide to put it into their old car, as well...As for HD Radio, it looks to me like it's going to go the way of AM Stereo... The only thing that could save HD Radio is if it becomes standard on new cars at no additional charge -- and I doubt that is going to happen...
 
Sounds like many of you are assuming that technology won't improve. I'd say that is an unsafe bet. What you see now is just the begining...we're priming the pump to prove to manufactures we as an industry are moving ahead with Digital and are going to survive. In my opinion the industry has done the right thing getting these stations on the air. True, no one is listening, but it is a chicken/egg senario. Nobody will build or buy HD radios if the signals aren't there. Building demand takes marketing...this is where radio is dropping the ball, but that is a whole seperate topic. Once the demand is there technology upgrades will happen fast. Instead of HD-2 you'll have HD-4 which would give Dallas as many local station as XM has on Sattelite. Signal quality will also imporove...and it will be free!!!!CC and other companies are working very hard to get these radios into cars. Know where the first (or one of the first) HD stations went on the air? Go figure, Detroit. Again, all we have to do is prime the pump for a few years. In other words, the industry will foot some of the cost of gretting these HD radios added as standard equipment on autos. The cost of doing this is nothing compared to keeping a couple of muti-billion dollar birds in the sky (if my memory serves me they will need to be replaced in the coming years). Our business model, although far far behind where it shold be (this could have been going on 10 years ago), is far superior to the sattellite model. Our costs are minimal (I think marketing will prove to be one of the largest) and over the past 80 years we've gotten the sales thing down. CC and others are doing the right thing by getting advertisers used to shorter messages. As evil as it sounds I think it is all part of the master plan for "new" radio! If Sat listeners have access to a similar product but with local programming for free I think it is unlikely that Sat will survive. yes, they could drop the subscription fee but then they have to add commercials...lots of 'em and now they have an inferior product with no local programs and more commercials.It's up to us. If you'd don't believe in our potential no one will. Will these changes take us beyond our comfort zone? Yes. But we can't all sit around wishing we could recreate the KVIL from the 80s and expect to move the industry forward. Nobody can survive change like radio can...we are a dynamic group....we've all been this before (although not as dramatic). If you can't hack it get off the boat now and make room for some new young blood.
 
>>> The only way HD Radio is ever going to catch on is if the auto manufacturers begin to offer it standard with a new car purchase.Yes, the way that helped AM stereo be such a success. (snicker)IBOC = DOA. Count on it.
 
A shout-out to StaxofWax:
Sounds like many of you are assuming that technology won't improve. I'd say that is an unsafe bet. What you see now is just the begining...
Wrong. This isn't "just the beginning." It's a technology riddled with problems that had hit a dead end in development midway through the 90's. Then, as corporate radio became more and more nervous about satellite radio, IBOC was labeled "HD" and offered up as the answer--flaws and all.
Instead of HD-2 you'll have HD-4 which would give Dallas as many local station as XM has on Sattelite. Signal quality will also imporove...and it will be free!!!!
Hate to break it to you, but there's not enough bandwidth for an HD-3 to do much more than broadcast a minimal fidelity NOAA weather station or the like. I don't know who encouraged you to get excited about HD-4. I'm thinking you had to sit through a corporate-led HD siminar where Kool Aid was administered intravenously. It was probably a Hollander meeting. On FM, HD-1 is a pretty nice signal. Discriminating listeners will hear the audio limitations of most HD-2 signals. Once you try to add HD-3, 4, and so on, you're not offering anyone anything they'd want to hear music on. And I'm guessing talk isn't an option since our current DFW AM dial only supports a couple of talk stations worth envying (WBAP and The Ticket).
It's up to us. If you can't hack it get off the boat now and make room for some new young blood.
Well, I raise my glass to your optimism. But since there's not a single radio cluster in this market that can say that 100 percent of its Dallas properties are healthy, I'm not sure why you would think these same clusters will put compelling HD-2's on the air. Prove to me that ANY of these guys can shape up their existing properties, and THEN let's look for new blood for this new age of HD.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
>>> The only way HD Radio is ever going to catch on is if the auto manufacturers begin to offer it standard with a new car purchase.Yes, the way that helped AM stereo be such a success. (snicker)IBOC = DOA. Count on it.
Sorry, but I wouldn't count on IBOC failing. It is not the same as the AM Stereo debacle. Consider a couple of facts:1. HD Radio has one format - Ibiquity's IBOC system. This is incredibly important and very different from AM stereo. There were 5 AM stereo formats that were not compatible with each other. The FCC chose the Magnavox system as the standard in the early 80s, only to reverse the decision a few months later thanks to protests from the 4 other competing systems and a few radio groups. Magnavox, Harris, Motorola, Kahn, and Belar fought it out for a while. Ultimately, Kahn and Motorola were the only ones left. The result of this fight was that after a few years, only a few hundred stations were running stereo of any kind and AM stereo radios were hard to come by. AM stereo was offered in a few cars, but it was hardly worth it by the time most AM stations had switched to non-music programming. 2. Stations are on board with HD Radio. With the major radio owners committed to switching to HD, there will be several thousand stations broadcasting this system in a few years. They all need to do a better job of promoting their new services. When they do, the public will start asking "where can I get an HD radio?" Once that happens, the radio manufacturers will catch up and stard offering inexpensive HD radios. 3. HD is a clear improvement over the current technology. Some will debate this point, but from what I hear the evidence is clear that HD is just better than standard analog - particularly on AM. The better sound quality and additional programming will create more demand for this product. That can only help drive up sales of HD radios and listenership in HD programming. While I think HD will survive, I don't think it will kill satellite. HD and satellite offer two very different types of services. HD has, or will have, commercials. Satellite, by and large, does not rely on ads. People get satellite for wider variety and fewer commercials. They'll get HD because it sounds better. I don't think it will radically change their listening habits unless HD2 AND HD3 stations offer better formats.
 
>>>1. HD Radio has one format - Ibiquity's IBOC system. Expensive and power hungry = NO portable radios. >>>> When they do, the public will start asking "where can I get an HD radio?" Like everybody asked "where can I get an AM stereo radio". Before you bring up AM talk radio again - why would anybody care about IBOC talk radio if they didn't care about AM stereo talk radio?>>>> 3. HD is a clear improvement over the current technology. Some will debate this point, but from what I hear the evidence is clear that HD is just better than standard analog - particularly on AM. AM HD samples from Ibiquity's own web site sound like streaming audio. The phase shifts are noticable and annoying. AM stereo sounded GREAT in comparison. Ibiquity cheats on the FM samples. They are in mono and sound like near fringe signals. They are not good quality reception in a city grade countour. If they were, there would not be that much difference, particularly in cars. Certainly not over a junky 4 inch speaker in a Boston Acoustics radio, and there won't be any portables unless IC manufacturers can solve the power consumption issues.I'm really trying not to be a lemming here when I say "the emperor doesn't have any clothes on"IBOC - DOA from lack of consumer interest. While I think HD will survive, I don't think it will kill satellite. HD and satellite offer two very different types of services. HD has, or will have, commercials. Satellite, by and large, does not rely on ads. People get satellite for wider variety and fewer commercials. They'll get HD because it sounds better. I don't think it will radically change their listening habits unless HD2 AND HD3 stations offer better formats. [/quote]
 
This is a great discussion. My question is, are those of you with all of the technical knowledge (which I admit is not me) sure that we won't be able to improve upon the technology over time? My undrstanding is that when the radios start rolling out over the next five years we will be able to drastically improve the technology on our end.As for portable radios...you can look at the Arbitron data and see that the majority of radio listening is happening in cars and at the office or home where you are unlikely to be operating on battery power. Although I agree it would be nice to be able to do so.
 
All i know is that I have it and love it. I'm canceling XM and sticking with the Free Sirius on the Dish Network and local HD radio. oh, SmokeRing... What the hell do you drive? A Model T? Still trying to rent betamax tapes somewhere? Your last name must be Duell."Everything that can be invented has been invented." -Charles H. Duellglad to see that you think nothing will ever improve.
 
>>>>majority of radio listening is happening in cars and at the office or home where you are >>>>unlikely to be operating on battery power. Although I agree it would be nice to be able >>>>to do so. MP3 players with FM tuners? But wait - we can't embrace MP3 players, less people will listen to HD radio. Unless its right there on the dial. But - not with the present integrated circuits. And I don't think there will be much improvement in only 5 years. This is a processor intensive, full decode operation totally unlike FM stereo - which was bolstered by the discovery of the phase locked loop, and AM stereo, which was a good old analog process - and there are a lot of saavy low power analog IC designers out there. You just are not gonna get a breakthrough in processing to save IBOC from 3 or more watts of power in the near future. I've seen the new IC processes - they are incrementally better than those today, not revolutionary breakthroughs.
 
TechnicalDirectorr,
Oh, SmokeRing... What the hell do you drive? A Model T? Still trying to rent betamax tapes somewhere? Glad to see that you think nothing will ever improve.
I'm not sure where in my post you found a reason to suspect that I prefer old, out-dated technology. Actually, I like my upgrades to be... er... upgrades.IBOC is a modest move forward. Like going from version 1.0 to 1.2. If I'm going to pay a premium price for a new receiver, I want to go from version 1.0 to 5.0. I don't think I'm all that different from most consumers in that regard.
 
SmokeRing said:
I'm not sure where in my post you found a reason to suspect that I prefer old, out-dated technology. Actually, I like my upgrades to be... er... upgrades.IBOC is a modest move forward. Like going from version 1.0 to 1.2. If I'm going to pay a premium price for a new receiver, I want to go from version 1.0 to 5.0. I don't think I'm all that different from most consumers in that regard.
it's all gotta start somewhere. that's all. everything does. that's Life. your post was all about how it will never get better and that it's already failed...aaaannnndd... that nothing will come of it. ProTools didn't go from 1.2 to 5.0 overnight. neither did automobiles, home entertainment, photography, Internet Explorer, OSX, _______(fill in the blank). bottom line is it has to start somewhere to grow. nothing starts out as a version 5.0. nothing. except sliced bread.
 
it's all gotta start somewhere. that's all. everything does. that's Life. your post was all about how it will never get better and that it's already failed...aaaannnndd... that nothing will come of it. ProTools didn't go from 1.2 to 5.0 overnight. neither did automobiles, home entertainment, photography, Internet Explorer, OSX, _______(fill in the blank).
I like your spirit, TechnicalDirectorr. In general, I agree with you. And I'm willing to be patient with the natural evolutions of products and technologies.However, HD Radio is too disappointing to excite me at this point--especially for the asking price. Really, my opinion on this subject comes down to that. If you're going to charge me $300 or more for your cheapest receivers, I want more upside than no multipath interference on FM, and internet stream quality on AM.
 
SmokeRing said:
it's all gotta start somewhere. that's all. everything does. that's Life. your post was all about how it will never get better and that it's already failed...aaaannnndd... that nothing will come of it. ProTools didn't go from 1.2 to 5.0 overnight. neither did automobiles, home entertainment, photography, Internet Explorer, OSX, _______(fill in the blank).
I like your spirit, TechnicalDirectorr. In general, I agree with you. And I'm willing to be patient with the natural evolutions of products and technologies.However, HD Radio is too disappointing to excite me at this point--especially for the asking price. Really, my opinion on this subject comes down to that. If you're going to charge me $300 or more for your cheapest receivers, I want more upside than no multipath interference on FM, and internet stream quality on AM.
hahastay away from the $1000 blue rays!
 
Now, now... You two makeup...I'm still stuck in the past as far as audio equipmentstill crank up my old Pioneer SX-34 (Yep, it's got tubes)..lolalso get better reception than digital recevers.The free part of the HD would draw in the listeners. morechoices, Maybe even Rody could put THE ZOO back in the market .. like that would ever happen...I still use a casset adapter to play my MP3 player in the car.I would buy the HD/FM converter if the price was in reason.Ron , Weatherford,Tx
 
Joe King said:
The only way HD Radio is ever going to catch on is if the auto manufacturers begin to offer it standard with a new car purchase.I'm old enough to remember the 1960s, when AM radio was king. In the early to mid 1960s, new cars would come standard with an AM radio. If you wanted FM Stereo, it was available, but at an extra charge that a lot of people declined at purchase.By the late 60s to early 70s, AM / FM Stereo radios became standard on new cars, and it was a few dollars extra if you wanted an 8-track -- and then a stereo cassette as we got into the mid to late 1970s.I think it was around 1972 or 73 when local FM stations would offer promotions with an adapter you could purchase to allow you to listen to FM Mono through your AM car radio. I had one of those adapters in my car for a couple of years.In the mid to late 60s and very early 70s, your average middle class family had an FM Stereo inside the home -- but never really listened to it. I lived in Arlington, where we could pick up both KLIF from Dallas and KFJZ from Fort Worth. 99% of the time, my friends and I would listen to KLIF, and we used to joke about how "old" Mark E Baby was getting on KFJZ, and how long it was until he was replaced with someone younger. There was even one day when one of my junior high teachers came into the room, and we had a portable radio on. She said, "Mark E Baby?!? He's still around?!?"At any rate, when they began to offer AM / FM as standard on the new cars, you could tell the difference when listening to KLIF. Every time you turned around, another KLIF deejay would announce, "Today will be my last day on KLIF."Despite the turnover, and the fact that the station was obviously suffering, it wasn't until the new "Z-97" FM went commercial free for several weeks, that loyal KLIF listeners finally switched. I can still recall announcements from program director Harry Nelson that Z-97's antics were "unfair" competition.Recently, I've been noticing some new car commercials where the manufacturers are throwing in a Sirius satellite radio receiver with a free three year subscription. THAT looks like the type of thing that will probably catch on. In a year or two, everyone with a brand new car will be listening to satellite, and a lot of their friends who ride with them from time to time will decide to put it into their old car, as well...As for HD Radio, it looks like to me it is going to go the way of AM Stereo... The only thing that could save HD Radio is if it becomes standard on new cars at no additional charge -- and I doubt that is going to happen...A good synopsis of the radio years that were. Satellite radio seems to be the first really viable broadcast mode to emerge since the advent of FM stereo, and that of course was mostly a variation on the theme of FM mono, not actually an entirely new mode in itself. Agreed, HD is tanking AM and unless some dratic technical improvements are made quickly, HD will in no time become no definition, which it mostly is now.
 
he actually made some good points and i know now where he's coming from. just being sarcastic. all good on this end.
I'm good, too. And I appreciate the humor in BoardOpp's sarcasm...But, really, what can I say... BoardOpp likes his HD Radio. He's entitled to enjoying his new gear. If you pay 300-400 dollars for something and you think you got your money's worth, then, from your perspective, it's all good.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom