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HD Radio

fybush said:
And the key point, for the purposes of interesting discussion here on these boards, is that it's fine to be an outlier - we are all outliers here to some extent! - as long as you can put it in perspective and understand why the "average listener" isn't going to hear what we hear.

There's a lot of very bad HD audio out there in the real world - lossy source material, processing that isn't carefully set up, early generations of importers and exporters that really need to be updated.

None of those things make HD Radio "bad." They're just bad implementation of the technology.

I'm an outlier, too. I've been all over the country listening fairly carefully to thousands of FM stations in hundreds of markets over the last few years. And here's my conclusion: when it's done well, with careful attention to source material and processing and latest-generation encoding, HD FM fixes a lot of the problems with analog FM. I have lost count of how many times I've been in a hotel room trying to aircheck a format that depends on a low noise floor, especially classical or public radio talk, and finding the difference between a noisy multipath analog signal and solid HD makes all the difference between listenable and not.

Listeners don't need to know HD exists to benefit from it. If it's just "there" in the car they own - and right now that's about a one in three chance across the universe of hundreds of millions of vehicles on the road - they get a cleaner signal with less "static" and more stability as they drive around rough terrain.

I wouldn't build a new commercial FM facility without HD. I wish the costs of an HD build would come down more, so that it's less of an obstacle for smaller operators in the noncommercial world.

You'll notice I've said nothing about bitrates or dividing up subchannels, and there's a good reason for that: the compression algorithms in newer equipment have gotten so much better in the last few years. We're not broadcasting to audiophiles in perfectly quiet rooms. We're reaching real world listeners in noisy cars. They're accustomed to bit-reduced audio, for the most part. What they really don't like is "static," which for the non-expert listener is what we'd call multipath, picket-fencing and all the other problems with analog FM that HD mostly fixes when it's done right.
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No doubt about it - there are a lot of bad sounding analog FM stations, too. And, at least for stations airing contemporary material or contemporary masterings of older material, a lot of times you end up with garbage in garbage out because there's already so much compression, limiting, and clipping applied in the mixing/mastering phases of the music.

For me - I prefer the other FM issues (that are pretty negligible with a strong signal) to the digital compression of HD radio. I also prefer a bit of tape hiss to the slushy drums of an mp3 file.

I can confirm that the times I've driven my mother's car and turned HD radio off, she has never said anything and it's always still off next time I drive it. If I leave it on, she doesn't seem to notice a difference. I'm guessing that's the case for most regular people.

I'm not saying we shouldn't embrace HD radio... It's more that the actual codec it is based on is just plain old and sounds like it. I'd bet that a better sounding codec could be developed in today's world but then you have the possibility of a backwards compatibility issue with older HD radios. I know there have been "updates" but those don't seem to have upped the bitrate.
 
My current car, 2019 Honda Insight hybrid, has HD radio. However, my next car might not come with HD, unless I get a more expensive model. Not having HD in the car isn't a deal breaker, but I'm in an area with a decent amount of HD signals available. I guess that makes it "nice to have."
 
There's a distant station (country) that my wife likes listening to, that runs HD. We usually pick it up as an analog signal. There are times when we travel towards the station, and HD kicks in. When the station transitions between analog and HD, you can really hear a huge difference. The highs really get lost in analog. Even with all the road noise of being on the Interstate, the vocals sound more crisp, and the cymbals on the drum kit really come out when the radio syncs up the HD signal.
 
rbc said:
There's a distant station (country) that my wife likes listening to, that runs HD. We usually pick it up as an analog signal. There are times when we travel towards the station, and HD kicks in. When the station transitions between analog and HD, you can really hear a huge difference. The highs really get lost in analog. Even with all the road noise of being on the Interstate, the vocals sound more crisp, and the cymbals on the drum kit really come out when the radio syncs up the HD signal.
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The difference in sound quality is really obvious.Isn't it?Those people here who say they can't notice the difference.Just aren't listening critically
 
[QUOTE="drchuck, post: 6721718, member: 64539]

However, my next car might not come with HD, unless I get a more expensive model…
[/QUOTE]

Which model Honda might you get that you would “have to get a more expensive model” to get HD?

My impression on they are mostly a stock item in most new cars.
 
Wimmmex said:
[QUOTE="drchuck, post: 6721718, member: 64539]

However, my next car might not come with HD, unless I get a more expensive model…
Click to expand...

Which model Honda might you get that you would “have to get a more expensive model” to get HD?

My impression on they are mostly a stock item in most new cars.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know about Honda, but with Ford.Only the deluxe trims have h d which they call premium stereo
 
fybush said:
What they really don't like is "static," which for the non-expert listener is what we'd call multipath, picket-fencing and all the other problems with analog FM that HD mostly fixes when it's done right.
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Besides that being the most perfect and practical explanation of consumer perception of audio, I love your mention of "static".

"Static" is a word that has changed meaning... totally... in recent decades. Static is originally analog noise caused by atmospheric conditions like lightening and it affected AM alone. FM, at its introduction, was promoted as having "no static".

Today, "static" is any kind of noise or interference with a clean radio signal.

And this is just a reminder of how words change... just as in our industry we can now call "radio" any kind of audio service that does not have an an accompanying picture.
 
PTBoardOp93 said:
Audacy dropped a few HD subchannels last year as they struggled to find more cost saving measures. Other than that, it's roughly flat.
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Dropping an HD sub-channel (HD-2 and beyond) is different from not having HD in parallel to the analog signal. Many stations are finding that this helps in areas with multipath, for example.
 
Just for grins, I went to the Honda U.S. website to 'build and price'. My test subject was a 2024 Honda Accord LX, which is the lowest priced Accord model ($27,895 MSRP). The only optional packages for this model involve 'Seasonal packages: 'All Season Protection Packages:
All Season Protection Package II' and 'HPD Styling Package'. It appears that all these packages have the same infotainment system which included HD Radio. The only differences are floor mats, splash guards, and chrome bling options.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Besides that being the most perfect and practical explanation of consumer perception of audio, I love your mention of "static".

"Static" is a word that has changed meaning... totally... in recent decades. Static is originally analog noise caused by atmospheric conditions like lightening and it affected AM alone. FM, at its introduction, was promoted as having "no static".

Today, "static" is any kind of noise or interference with a clean radio signal.

And this is just a reminder of how words change... just as in our industry we can now call "radio" any kind of audio service that does not have an an accompanying picture.
Click to expand...

"FM. no static at all." You have to remember the 70's to appreciate that.
 
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rbc said:
There's a distant station (country) that my wife likes listening to, that runs HD. We usually pick it up as an analog signal. There are times when we travel towards the station, and HD kicks in. When the station transitions between analog and HD, you can really hear a huge difference. The highs really get lost in analog. Even with all the road noise of being on the Interstate, the vocals sound more crisp, and the cymbals on the drum kit really come out when the radio syncs up the HD signal.
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Some of the loss of vocals and cymbals are from the blending effect on FM Stereo to reduce the noise by reducing separation, in some cases almost to mono. You would need a very strong signal to get full stereo, but I do agree that in most cases HD1 sounds better than analog. I don’t like when a station’s analog and digital timing are slightly out of sync when transitioning between HD1 and analog.

Hopefully, the FCC will allow at least one of the sidebands to have more than -14db as compared to the analog signal. This would help increase the coverage and reduce dropouts on HD2-4. In my area on Long Island, I am just on the border of HD coverage, so I don’t typically listen to an HD2 unless I go a few miles west (closer to the Empire State Building). WNYC FM 93.9 is a bit better as their HD is -12db. That allows me to listen to their HD2 which simulcasts 105.9 WQXR (also from the Empire State Building) but at 610 watts analog, their signal is too noisy.
 
If I wanted I could put my portable HD radio in passenger seat of my car and use a cord with 1/8th" plug on each end, connected to Aux jack. Not sure how good reception would be, and best to find station before driving.
In Boston area some unique stations like all blues are gone; some HD2s simulcast AMs.
Various offerings. On Cape Cod 2 HD3s have Bob's Memory Station for nostalgia.

My car stereo for a '24 Nissan is AM and FM,
Android Auto/bluetooth; no HD. I have XM as a stream --I can use w Bluetooth or android auto. Stereo w XM included would cost more
 
radiofan2023 said:
vchimpanzee said:
That's the song, which when I heard it on a standards station, made me conclude it was time to put their chimpanzee on TV to show his talent at selecting songs.
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What?
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If I'm not mistaken, I think his point is that that song doesn't really seem appropriate as a standard.

In any case, I kind of agree with that; the song makes much more sense to me on either a mainline Classic Hits format or soft oldies, such as MeTV Music (I still think this format could work in SF, and it would offer a mellower, slower-paced and easier sounding alternative to iHeart 80s+ while still appealing to a decent chunk of the same audience).

c
 
Wimmmex said:
[QUOTE="drchuck, post: 6721718, member: 64539]

However, my next car might not come with HD, unless I get a more expensive model…
Click to expand...

Which model Honda might you get that you would “have to get a more expensive model” to get HD?

My impression on they are mostly a stock item in most new cars.
[/QUOTE]

The Honda Insight is no longer going to be manufactured, so I may get either an Accord or Civic. I won't be in the market for a new car for a few more years, but when I look at the current hybrid Accords, there are four trims available (listed from least to most expensive): Sport Hybrid, EX-L Hybrid, Sport L-Hybrid, and Touring Hybrid. Only the Touring Hybrid has HD radio available. True, there are aftermarket options available, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. We'll see what happens when I'm ready for a new car. I tend to hang on to my cars for at least 10 years.
 
BruceB said:
Which model Honda might you get that you would “have to get a more expensive model” to get HD?

My impression on they are mostly a stock item in most new cars.
Click to expand...
I don't know about Honda, but with Ford.Only the deluxe trims have h d which they call premium stereo
[/QUOTE]

The current Honda Accord Hybrid is like that, also. Touring trim has HD, but not the lesser expensive trims.
 
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