HD Radios in GM Cars?

[rbrucecarter5]

If GM had just installed HD radios in their cars, they never would have gone bankrupt. Grateful consumers would have flocked to buy Government Motors (oops I meant General Motors) products.

 

[JohnW]

If GM had just installed HD radios in their cars, they never would have gone bankrupt.

Maybe all is not lost. Perhaps by government fiat (oops - wrong word), all Obamamobiles will have them and GM will be saved!

 

[R.F. Burns]

If GM had just installed HD radios in their cars, they never would have gone bankrupt. Grateful consumers would have flocked to buy Government Motors (oops I meant General Motors) products.

No, instead GM chose to go with Sirius and both companies are now in the sh*t*er. You failed to note that Ford motors is offering HD radios in their cars and Ford is the only US automobile company amongst "the big three" not in bankrupsy. Coincidence?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

No, instead GM chose to go with Sirius and both companies are now in the sh*t*er. You failed to note that Ford motors is offering HD radios in their cars and Ford is the only US automobile company amongst "the big three" not in bankrupsy. Coincidence?

Ha Ha good one! HD radio saves Ford from bankruptcy.

 

[Savage]

RF, you indeed get the "knee-slapper" award. Are you Sirius-ly suggesting that Ford's decision to include HD in its products has saved it from bankruptcy? C'mon!!

Actually, Ford saved itself because (a) its board of directors veto'ed any "deals with the devil" in the form of the federal government subsidy loans which have sunk Chrysler and GM, (b) took out a huge loan secured by the Ford family estate and (c) hired a real industry pro to help it design competitive products like the Fusion, the Focus and the Escape which are selling very well with generous profit margins. In addition Ford continues to make and sell the best-selling vehicle in North America, the Ford F-150 pickup line. Sales routinely exceed those of ALL competing pickups COMBINED.

Besides, I looked at the Escape when I bought a new car three months ago. I ultimately opted for a Jeep Patriot (the Ford and Chrysler stores are co-owned and located) but there wasn't anybody in the dealership who could tell me about HD Radio. I also just signed a new client, another dealer who sells Ford and Subaru. In my talks with the dealership's founder and president, we talked about radio and vehicles. She can tell you what kind of shock absorbers every vehicle has installed, the tire manufacturers, internal company politics at the car companies. SHE had never heard of HD Radio.......ummm, that would be a FORD DEALERSHIP owner.

 

[R.F. Burns]

RF, you indeed get the "knee-slapper" award. Are you Sirius-ly suggesting that Ford's decision to include HD in its products has saved it from bankruptcy? C'mon!!

Actually, Ford saved itself because (a) its board of directors veto'ed any "deals with the devil" in the form of the federal government subsidy loans which have sunk Chrysler and GM, (b) took out a huge loan secured by the Ford family estate and (c) hired a real industry pro to help it design competitive products like the Fusion, the Focus and the Escape which are selling very well with generous profit margins. In addition Ford continues to make and sell the best-selling vehicle in North America, the Ford F-150 pickup line. Sales routinely exceed those of ALL competing pickups COMBINED.

Besides, I looked at the Escape when I bought a new car three months ago. I ultimately opted for a Jeep Patriot (the Ford and Chrysler stores are co-owned and located) but there wasn't anybody in the dealership who could tell me about HD Radio. I also just signed a new client, another dealer who sells Ford and Subaru. In my talks with the dealership's founder and president, we talked about radio and vehicles. She can tell you what kind of shock absorbers every vehicle has installed, the tire manufacturers, internal company politics at the car companies. SHE had never heard of HD Radio.......ummm, that would be a FORD DEALERSHIP owner.

Of course not. The inclusion of HD had nothing to do with the companies ability to survive. Of course the same could be said for GM, The lack of HD radio had nothing to do with its failure. Actually, the US auto industry is in bad shape but so are foreign brands. The world economy is in terrible shape and until that turns around purchases, especially large ones like automobiles will suffer. Of course this down turn is a great opportunity to blame union workers, which big business hates. Of course if they had their way we'd lose all of the gains employees have made which created the middle class at the start of the 20th century. What many people fail to realize is that if it wasn't for unions and the gains they've made most workers in this country wouldn't enjoy the 40 hour work week or most of the protections they as employees enjoy today.

 

[R.F. Burns]

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[BRNout]

That's all fine and good, but how will those little battery powered '12 model Obamamobiles generate enough juice to power the HD chip? Instead of 40 miles per charge, it'll be getting 4!

Not to mention that the huge cube-sized HD radio will infringe on what little legroom those things will have.... :

 

[R.F. Burns]

That's all fine and good, but how will those little battery powered '12 model Obamamobiles generate enough juice to power the HD chip? Instead of 40 miles per charge, it'll be getting 4!

Not to mention that the huge cube-sized HD radio will infringe on what little legroom those things will have.... :

Time to move into 2009. Improvements have been made in the area of HD radio. For instance, the HD Zume will use the new HD chip designed for portable use. In electronics improvements occur constantly and prices always drop. My first CD player from the early to mid 1980's cost $700 and came with a wired remote and not much else. No oversampling or any of the design improvements CD players incorporated as the technology evolved. Today you could purchase a better more refined transport for $25 than the one included on that CD player. Try comparing the Sony HD tuner with the original B.A. HD Receptor. There's no comparison but some people in here insist that the B.A. is as good as HD technology will ever get. It's time to move on and look at where we are, not where we were.

 

[Savage]

RF, I would argue that for all practical purposes, "where we are" IS "where we were" circa about...2006, as far as HD Radio goes.

Station conversions to HD? They've just about stopped. Once HD's investors - Alliance-owned stations - installed HD and NPR stations, heavily subsidized through capital grants, got their HD up and running that was about it. Talk to any equipment rep about HD sales.

Receivers? Scarcer than ever. This is arguably where HD blew it the worst. The returns on HD merchandise were horrific. Once burned - always shy. Big box retailers won't be restocking HD any time soon after losing their shirts on HD Radios the first time around. Even Radio Shack has bailed on HD. In cars, most HD-capable aftermarket units now available are "HD-ready." MS Zune? It has a laughably tiny market share among portable music players where the IBOC-free iPod is king. New-generation HD portables? Even the new chipset gobbles power (in live mode HD receivers can optimistically expect about 4 hours battery life) and generates heat.

Digital power increase for HD-FM? The smart money says it isn't gonna be -10dBc but some "managed" (read: "negotiated") level less than that, like -14dBc. The best estimates were that a tenfold increase in digital would ramp up interference and cause analog audience loss to an extent far greater than any potential coverage benefit. And for digital listeners, a wimpy 6dB increase is going to prove a nonstarter. So the system is a technical loser.

The marketing from the NAB & iBiquity? As awful and annoying as ever, as reliable national surveys show that HD awareness is actually DROPPING, not increasing. Car manufacturers? Good luck getting the distracted and stressed auto industry on board. Notwithstanding all the umlaut about Ford including HD in its vehicles I have yet to visit a Ford dealership where anyone had a clue about HD Radio. In ad-sales visits to Ford showrooms I've never seen a single HD factory-equipped vehicle. Ditto at the local Jaguar and Land Rover store - and the Range Rover on the showroom floor had a MSRP sticker showing an eye-popping total of $92,000 - yet NO HD Radio even at THAT price.

HD-2 and 3 subs? Success stories are few and far between. Most comments on the subs are that they're broken, display low audio, days of dead air before managers discover and correct problems, or program uninteresting variants of the main channel, or have poor coverage.

And then there's the thumping success story: 'HD-AM.....' :

 

[BRNout]

That's all fine and good, but how will those little battery powered '12 model Obamamobiles generate enough juice to power the HD chip? Instead of 40 miles per charge, it'll be getting 4!

Not to mention that the huge cube-sized HD radio will infringe on what little legroom those things will have.... :

Time to move into 2009. Improvements have been made in the area of HD radio. For instance, the HD Zume will use the new HD chip designed for portable use. In electronics improvements occur constantly and prices always drop. My first CD player from the early to mid 1980's cost $700 and came with a wired remote and not much else. No oversampling or any of the design improvements CD players incorporated as the technology evolved. Today you could purchase a better more refined transport for $25 than the one included on that CD player. Try comparing the Sony HD tuner with the original B.A. HD Receptor. There's no comparison but some people in here insist that the B.A. is as good as HD technology will ever get. It's time to move on and look at where we are, not where we were.

Your answer to me is to tout an HD Zune?!? A unit that marries two technological also-rans? Come on, you can do better than that. Or can you?

Since the new Zune isn't out yet, how do you know how well it will work? It could well only be able to decode HD from stations located 10 miles away or less - and that's if you stand still.

If that's the best defense that you folks who tout HD can come up with, well, you're proving my point for me. I bought the only affordable HD radio that I'd ever seen in a store and it has proven to be the biggest POS I've ever purchased! Based on what I read here and elsewhere, my results were typical.

 

[R.F. Burns]

And you base your statements on assumptions which arte all negative. We'll all find out how well it works soon enough.

 

[KB1OKL]

Since the new Zune isn't out yet, how do you know how well it will work? It could well only be able to decode HD from stations located 10 miles away or less - and that's if you stand still.

10 miles? Maybe with a beanie that has a rotatable Yagi on top of it ;D. I'm lucky to get FM iBOC at 30 miles with the much ballyhooed Sony, and it won't pick up a 5KW IBOC AM station at all with a 100 dollar ferrite antenna which booms in here in analog and it's less than 10 miles away.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Since the new Zune isn't out yet, how do you know how well it will work? It could well only be able to decode HD from stations located 10 miles away or less - and that's if you stand still.

10 miles? Maybe with a beanie that has a rotatable Yagi on top of it ;D. I'm lucky to get FM iBOC at 30 miles with the much ballyhooed Sony, and it won't pick up a 5KW IBOC AM station at all with a 100 dollar ferrite antenna which booms in here in analog and it's less than 10 miles away.

Maybe it's time to turn off the radio and find other ways to kep yourself occupied. My Sony receives all NY AM & FM HD stations with no problem. I've posted demos before. I guess if you are having problems you look for causes other than a failed technology. Gee, for a person who's supposed to have a background in radio technique, one would think that a little creativity when it comes to reception issues. I don't share your problems, but I'm an Extra Class license holder. Maybe that's it.

 

[KB1OKL]

Since the new Zune isn't out yet, how do you know how well it will work? It could well only be able to decode HD from stations located 10 miles away or less - and that's if you stand still.

10 miles? Maybe with a beanie that has a rotatable Yagi on top of it ;D. I'm lucky to get FM iBOC at 30 miles with the much ballyhooed Sony, and it won't pick up a 5KW IBOC AM station at all with a 100 dollar ferrite antenna which booms in here in analog and it's less than 10 miles away.

Maybe it's time to turn off the radio and find other ways to kep yourself occupied. My Sony receives all NY AM & FM HD stations with no problem. I've posted demos before. I guess if you are having problems you look for causes other than a failed technology. Gee, for a person who's supposed to have a background in radio technique, one would think that a little creativity when it comes to reception issues. I don't share your problems, but I'm an Extra Class license holder. Maybe that's it.

I suspect you live closer to NYC than I live to Boston or the topography is better where you live and like most owners of HD radios I really don't find the difference in sound compelling enough to do anything to try to improve reception although i could put a Yagi on the roof if I really cared enough but i don't as the HD-2 channels I've heard really s##k, and also like most less technically proficient consumers (than myself) if it doesn't work out of the box, it doesn't work. AM is a disaster anyway I actually hooked the Sony to a 400' LW antenna and I still couldn't receive the less than 10 mile 5 KW AMer that booms in here in analog.

 

[BRNout]

I suspect you live closer to NYC than I live to Boston or the topography is better where you live and like most owners of HD radios I really don't find the difference in sound compelling enough to do anything to try to improve reception although i could put a Yagi on the roof if I really cared enough but i don't as the HD-2 channels I've heard really s##k, and also like most less technically proficient consumers (than myself) if it doesn't work out of the box, it doesn't work. AM is a disaster anyway I actually hooked the Sony to a 400' LW antenna and I still couldn't receive the less than 10 mile 5 KW AMer that booms in here in analog.

When we lived outside of Philly, I could pick up most of the available FM HD stations/subs. However, we lived on a hill from which you could practically see the Roxborough towers (in fact, from up the street, you could) and I still had to fiddle a lot with the FM antenna to get them all in. This despite FM reception that overloaded my cheaper radios (and some not-so-cheap ones). None of the HD2 or HD3 content was compelling either. Most was highly compressed and sounded little better than an internet stream.

None of the AM HD signals in the area were listenable. KYW (by far the strongest signal) would drop in and out of HD - and nothing else came close.

Now I live about 25 miles from the Sears Tower and get less than a quarter of the area's HD offerings. And, that's with an amplified antenna unit and 10-15 minutes of fiddling with it for each outing. The AM HD here still won't decode, not even for super strong locals like WBBM and WGN.

I cannot imagine how useless this thing would be in my hometown of Nashua, NH (Boston DMA - like you)! Based on what I've experienced in these areas with more STRONG signals, not one Boston signal would decode there and it may not even decode the nearby Manchester ones either.

Basically, these radios and IBiquity's overall scheme is a load of crap that the average non radio geek wouldn't waste their time with. Most people want to flip on the radio without giving a thought to how the content arrives. So far, that's just impossible with this garbage. All it does is annoy the huge majority of listeners with a more crowded, hissy, dial.