• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

HD Radios sold thanks to the hurricane

Actually the point was whether the hurricanes have anything to do with HD Radio, not the other way around. HD has no effect on anything, except for causing interference with legitimate broadcasters, running up unjustifable costs and maintenance headaches for radio managers and engineers and provoking uncomprehending looks from any civilian to whom it is mentioned.

I'm not going to dignify your other personal remarks with a response beyond saying you have no idea what I know and what I don't know. It's just your usual attempt to get this discussion kicked to TIO, and I'm not going there.
 
Savage said:
I'm not going to dignify your other personal remarks with a response beyond saying you have no idea what I know and what I don't know.

I can easily tell what you don't know about actual hurricanes from your posts and your opinions on the kind of "during the worst of it" coverage radio should give. From the dangerous (Invite calls from listeners and tie up phone facilities which are fragile to begin with) to the insane (tell people how to get to emergency refugee centers as if people could / should go out in hurricane strength winds), you have showed that you don't know how coverage of a real, live hurricane should be conducted.
 
I think that Bob's point is that automation rolling "today's hits and yesterday's favorites" ain't what a radio station ought to be broadcasting during a hurricane or any other major disaster. Broadcasters who live in hurricane country know what people need to know because it's the same information that THEY need to know. Even if all they can provide is current weather information, messages from the local disaster relief center, and human reassurance, that's way ahead canned content.
 
SirRoxalot said:
I think that Bob's point is that automation rolling "today's hits and yesterday's favorites" ain't what a radio station ought to be broadcasting during a hurricane or any other major disaster. Broadcasters who live in hurricane country know what people need to know because it's the same information that THEY need to know. Even if all they can provide is current weather information, messages from the local disaster relief center, and human reassurance, that's way ahead canned content.

Having actually been evacuated by the Red Cross as the eye of a hurricane passed over, I can say that radio can and should play an important role in saving lives. On the other-hand, a station’s choice of coverage might be influenced by what other stations in the immediate area are doing as well. Today’s “journalism” is a far cry from the days of Edward R. Murrow or Walter Cronkite. Sensationalism and “Breaking News” seems to be the fare of the day. Sometimes this kind of reporting can make a bad situation even worse, leading to hysteria during a time when keeping a cool head might make for a better chance of survival. Some argument can be made for at least a few stations to keep to business more or less as usual. Something familiar to listen to can make waiting out a storm a lot more tolerable. Since there really isn’t much you can do while a hurricane is going over but wait it out and hope for the best, almost any diversion that does not increase your panic level, might be a good thing.

In this era of consolidation and clusters, it really doesn’t make much sense for very station in the cluster to provide similar programming all the time, even in situation like a hurricane. Running EAS and an occasional announcement saying “Tune in to our sister station WXXX for complete storm coverage,” ought to be adequate. Radios do have a tuning knob.

Usually the big guys like CC do a very good job during these situations. Even if you are not a fan of Big Radio, you have to give credit where credit is due.

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with HD radio…
 
SirRoxalot said:
I think that Bob's point is that automation rolling "today's hits and yesterday's favorites" ain't what a radio station ought to be broadcasting during a hurricane or any other major disaster. Broadcasters who live in hurricane country know what people need to know because it's the same information that THEY need to know. Even if all they can provide is current weather information, messages from the local disaster relief center, and human reassurance, that's way ahead canned content.

My point is that a station that is normally music intensive and which gets the small amount of information it broadcasts from an outside traffic or news provider has no business trying to become an authoritative source of information.

Either forge an alliance with a news provider such as TV or print, or with another station or simply "just play the hits" and, perhaps, give a liner between songs giving the stations that "we suggest you check every half hour at the least.." where information is available.

Such stations may want to think about letting their staff go home before it is too late to move; office buildings are not generally among the safer places to be as they have larger glass surfaces and usually have little or no food and water storage ability. For the safety of the staff... if there is nothing positive that can be done... lock the door and go, safely, home.
 
IOW, abdicate your responsibility to serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity rather than have anyone on staff capable of relaying valuable information. Outstanding corporate thinking.
 
SirRoxalot said:
IOW, abdicate your responsibility to serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity rather than have anyone on staff capable of relaying valuable information. Outstanding corporate thinking.

One, what makes you think that entertainment, music that helps you through the day, the new Pitbull song and such are not also things that serve the public?

When there are stations in a community... particularly those with move-ins and upgrades due to Docket 80-90... that do a good job with news and information, it is not necessary nor should it be necessary to have a staff waiting just for the one time a year... or decade... when there is a powerful reason to seek information on the radio.

I don't take my Kia out into a field and try to pull a hoe or a reaper behind it. And I don't think I will take something made by John Deere out onto I-95 to drive from DC to Florida. There are different products for different purposes here, even if they have 4 wheels and a steering wheel. Same with radio.

One of the purposes of the emergency system going back to the EBS (but not CONELRAD as you incorrectly thought) was to provide alerts particularly since the cause for an alert may happen at very odd hours... such as when 99.9% of the stations now and in the past had no news person on duty. A station that has chosen to serve by providing a particular music blend with limited chatter and no news might consider having prerecords telling people what stations to tune to for emergency info, for example. I really worry when it's suggested that stations that have no staffers at all familiar with news gathering, source confirmation, etc., try to pass off as accurate information that may be inaccurate or dangerous.

The reality of radio is such that there are too many stations for today's revenue, and there is no way for every station or small market combo to have a qualified news person on 24/7. But the EAS can activate and give info, and people will be informed even if there is nobody at a station... unless the local authorities themselves don't know how to deal with an emergency (as the Minot spill proved).
 
I cited CONELRAD as a system of limiting the band to one local frequency in the case of emergency. That's what CONELRAD did. Your local was either on 640, or 1240. That's what you appear to be advocating.

Perhaps a better answer than throwing in the towel would be to ensure that each group of stations had enough qualified people on staff to be able to cover a 24 hour broadcast day. You don't have to be a full-time newsperson to offer more than canned music and EBS.

Your attitude is precisely why radio is becoming less relevant to the listening audience, and in particular to younger audiences that don't remember when radio actually focused on the listener, not the short-term financial goals of bankers.
 
SirRoxalot said:
I cited CONELRAD as a system of limiting the band to one local frequency in the case of emergency. That's what CONELRAD did. Your local was either on 640, or 1240. That's what you appear to be advocating.

CONELRAD operated on both 640 and 1240 simultaneously in areas with multiple stations. The idea was to never be on a single transmitter for more than a few minutes, and to have both frequencies available in as much of the country as possible.

No "station" operated the CONELRAD service... Civil Defense did. Stations only integrated with the Civil Defense to provide transmitters operated on one of the two channels intermittently on a schedule unknown to the station itself. During one of the CONELRAD tests, a friend in Cleveland noted at least a dozen marked changes in transmitter on 1240 at four different power levels (as measured by an S Meter) so the assumption is that at least 4 of the local stations were on 1240, while 3 or 4 were on 640, one of which likely was WHLO. But no station was part of the test... just the transmitters.

Perhaps a better answer than throwing in the towel would be to ensure that each group of stations had enough qualified people on staff to be able to cover a 24 hour broadcast day. You don't have to be a full-time newsperson to offer more than canned music and EBS.

Why? Technology eliminated the need for transmitter and studio engineers... and technology makes some formats suited for automated operation, as the Beautiful Music format proved in the 60's, 70's and into the 80's. I don't understand why there is a need to have people, today, do things that people are not needed for.

Your attitude is precisely why radio is becoming less relevant to the listening audience, and in particular to younger audiences that don't remember when radio actually focused on the listener, not the short-term financial goals of bankers.

One thing younger listeners want is their own playlist, which is technically possible today. When I was a teen, I switched between WERE and WJW and KYW to avoid the Dean Martin and Dominico Modugno songs. If I could have had any station skip those songs and play more Buddy Holly, I would have listened to it.

I also switched, as all my contemporaries did, to a different station each time the news came on one of the Top 40 stations.

Another thing younger listeners want today is an absence of old-school disk jockeys and chatter they perceive much as my generation perceived Don McNeill's Breakfast Club.

As we can see by reading between the lines in regards to Clear's nationwide conference call last week, the new iHeart radio is calculated for a convergence with terrestrial radio, which it will obviously replace at some time. One way radio, which sends a product but does not have constant feedback and modification, will not be a useful model in the future. Tradition "DJ, news and tunes" thinking won't help.
 
Even Conelrad recognized the need for redundancy. What happens if your "news station" is wiped out by the storm? With clustering these days, one building goes down, and a whole group of stations is off the air.

Oh, right, I forgot. It doesn't matter anyway because radio has nothing to offer during a hurricane anyway.
 
SirRoxalot said:
Even Conelrad recognized the need for redundancy. What happens if your "news station" is wiped out by the storm? With clustering these days, one building goes down, and a whole group of stations is off the air.

Not true on both counts. CONELRAD did not go through station studios; the feds controlled the transmitters directly with connections to the transmitter site. Even with "manned" sites (it was the 50's and many sites required licensed operators) the on and off controls came from the CONELRAD coordination site, not the studios. Then, as now, there were relatively few shared AM sites.

CONELRAD was not "redundant" as the whole concept involved controlling transmitter sites, and AM only (All FMs had to shut down).

A "cluster" is generally consolidated at the studio level only for AM (as I said, comparing FM is irrelevant) so the transmitters remained and still remain independent. If there is concern for clustering, then the EAS-type systems in the future should have some type of provision to be switchable to transmitter sites, or a failure of the studio location should hand control of the transmitter to another location. This point that you raise is valid in that direct to transmitter broadcasts might be worthy considering... although transmitters, particularly towers and antennas, are the most vulnerable part of a station.

It's likely in most markets that more than one station will either have news coverage and delivery trained staff or an alliance or cross ownership with TV or newspapers and have access to audio feeds... even directly to the transmitter.

I think back to the 70's in two different top 15 markets where I worked (both have frequent hurricanes and close calls). Although the FCC still required news and PA and such, only a couple of stations in each market had the facilities to cover news on their own. The rest did rip and read, or just had a news person in mornings. In both markets, stations were staffed with live people at all times, but I'd no more trust the night or overnight people I employed or those of my competitors to give information and advice about hurricanes than I would to give me stock market advice.

Oh, right, I forgot. It doesn't matter anyway because radio has nothing to offer during a hurricane anyway.

Again: during the passage of the hurricane itself (depending on ground speed, around 12 to 15 MPH and size of storm, from 200 to 500 miles wide) the hurricane strength winds may last 12 to 15 hours. During that time, the only thing that can be said is "stay indoors." Going out and being killed by a branch traveling at 150 MPH should be enough reason to stay inside; not being able to close the door afterwards is another. Being crushed by a falling tree or rolling car are even more reasons.

There will be no power. Listeners will have been told to store water in pots and pans and in the bathtub well in advance, as we know the approximate paths days in advance. Once the storm hits, minor changes in course are meaningless when a hurricane is hundreds of miles wide, and radar simply tells you what you already know... and none of that data is actionable as people can't seek shelter or move around for the same reasons given above. Stay indoors till the winds subside is the only message. Since the real dangers come afterwards with floods, it's then that the follow-up coverage can begin... remembering that electricity may take a week or more to return... long after many people have run out of batteries. (For me, Hugo meant 9 days without light and Georges was 11 days at a suburban home in the foothills.)
 
Not only were FM stations required to go off the air,but all

radio amateurs were required to monitor a local AM station and

immediately shut down if it left the air.Heathkit even built an

adapter that went off for this purpose:

http://www.heathkit-museum.com/ham/hvmca-1.shtml.

For those born too late for Conelrad here is a neat site:

http://www.conelrad.com/index.php

Conelrad History: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONELRAD

It was said that the system lost favor when several WB-50's (weather

versions of the B-50 successor to the B-29) were able to lock onto

and D/F Conelrad stations anyway as they flew back from Arctic

missions.
 
I know the CONELRAD stuff is OT but it's interesting learning about the system. Just last night I finished off a movie called Rocket Attack USA, a very bleak cold war b-movie and it featured the activation of CONELRAD, although in the film the TV announcer kept on the air by himself for hours until "the bomb" dropped. Sure it was hokey now, but back then it must have really put the scare into some folks.
 
ARRL Handbooks from the 1950s and 60s (until CONELRAD was replaced by EBS in 1963) also included plans for home-brew kits which essentially performed the same functions as the Heath unit. It consisted of a high-current relay that tapped into the AGC line of a receiver and chopped your Tx plate supply if the AM primary station activated.

Our backup-backup RCA BTA1R, 1962 vintage, has the separate CONELRAD circuit consisting of its own crystal oscillator and tuned section for 1240 kc/s. The octal sockets for the crystal and low-level RF stage have been vacant for the 25 years we've had the box.

I recall many stations had separate CONELRAD transmitters. The RCA's built-in CONELRAD capability was a big selling point.
 
My beef about the Best Buy HD portable is no AM. That was the ONLY station on the air in San Diego County during their recent power outage was TWO AM Stations period. NO FM's. NO cell. No power.
They should have at least included analog AM if they could not have HD AM in the Best Buy HD Insignia portables.
 
JohnnyElectron said:
My beef about the Best Buy HD portable is no AM. That was the ONLY station on the air in San Diego County during their recent power outage was TWO AM Stations period. NO FM's. NO cell. No power.
They should have at least included analog AM if they could not have HD AM in the Best Buy HD Insignia portables.

That would be a bad thing if the Big One strikes California. If all the FM stations go off the air during an earthquake, that is bad.
 
Nick said:
JohnnyElectron said:
My beef about the Best Buy HD portable is no AM. That was the ONLY station on the air in San Diego County during their recent power outage was TWO AM Stations period. NO FM's. NO cell. No power.
They should have at least included analog AM if they could not have HD AM in the Best Buy HD Insignia portables.

That would be a bad thing if the Big One strikes California. If all the FM stations go off the air during an earthquake, that is bad.

Why would it be more likely for the FMs to go off after an earthquake but the AMs stay on?
 
Zach said:
Nick said:
JohnnyElectron said:
My beef about the Best Buy HD portable is no AM. That was the ONLY station on the air in San Diego County during their recent power outage was TWO AM Stations period. NO FM's. NO cell. No power.
They should have at least included analog AM if they could not have HD AM in the Best Buy HD Insignia portables.

That would be a bad thing if the Big One strikes California. If all the FM stations go off the air during an earthquake, that is bad.

Why would it be more likely for the FMs to go off after an earthquake but the AMs stay on?

Because all the FMs went off after the recent power outage. There will always be something on AM at night.
 
Nick said:
Zach said:
Nick said:
JohnnyElectron said:
My beef about the Best Buy HD portable is no AM. That was the ONLY station on the air in San Diego County during their recent power outage was TWO AM Stations period. NO FM's. NO cell. No power.
They should have at least included analog AM if they could not have HD AM in the Best Buy HD Insignia portables.

That would be a bad thing if the Big One strikes California. If all the FM stations go off the air during an earthquake, that is bad.

Why would it be more likely for the FMs to go off after an earthquake but the AMs stay on?

Because all the FMs went off after the recent power outage. There will always be something on AM at night.

No, KSON-FM stayed on.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom