HD-R's Window of Opportunity Closing Fast

[700WLW]

ElCheapo wrote: "Internet radio in cars won't work for the reasons I've outlined numerous times - and on the off chance it does, traditional broadcasters will be providing the content that people actually listen to."

Internet Radio is already in-dash in Canada, and Wireless Internet is already in-dash here. Portable Internet Radio receivers are already in the market-place.

That's great. And what are they charging for bandwidth? It isn't free - bottom line. XM and Sirius has already proven that not enough people will pay for radio - and their marketing is much, much better than any marketing I've seen for internet radio.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any marketing for internet radio outside of terrestrial stations promoting their streams.

And lastly, there's the insurance industry. They simply will not stand for people taking their eyes off the road to deal with mobile internet. That's Allstate's stand - you can bet on it - and they have a VERY powerful Washington lobby.

In-car internet will be banned for drivers before it gets off the ground, and that leaves internet radio as the only reason to have access in-car. People won't pay for that just like they won't pay for satellite.

You won't find enough geeks in the real world willing to wire their laptop or pocket PC into their stereo just to listen to mobile streaming.

HD Radio is not free either - you pay for it up-front. And, we are seeing few geeks that have bought into HD Radio - the geeks have figured out that HD Radio is a fraud and a farse. Talking about marketing strategies - the HD Radio marketing strategy has been a complete joke an a failure.

"Surfing the Freeway: Cars Get PCs"

http://online.wsj.com/public/articl...Sb0N9IwuChXr50LB0TyDkc_20060201.html?mod=mktw

"Internet Radio Coming to Cars"

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/27/104105.shtml

"Internet Radio Audience Finding Its Stations"

http://www.audiographics.com/agd/102306-1.htm

 

[vsa]

ElCheapo wrote; "AM Stereo never made it because..."

And the radio industry couldn't convince enough people to buy AM stereo radios. You said the HD Radio cartel can sell anything if it wants to. No it can't.

ElCheapo wrote: "Internet radio in cars won't work...and on the off chance it does, traditional broadcasters will be providing the content that people actually listen to."

Yes, surviving traditional broadcasters will provide some of the successful content. But many of those traditional broadcasters will be able to work for themselves, minus the suits who are absorbed with buying and selling sticks. I'm familiar with some of them who are already doing quite well viz-a-viz current traditional radio streams.

ElCheapo wrote: "...there is no way you could be making it in the business.  You read like a washed-up has been (or never was) that's operating an internet stream.  You're transparent."

Not falling for the bait to reveal my identity. David, I make it a point to know what's up around the bend and to make plans to adjust accordingly. The times for radio are changing rapidly. There will be an important book coming out early next year. It will be called "Revitalizing Radio" by Kurt Hanson. I suggest you pick up a copy and read it cover-to-cover. You're a very smart man who needs to "lose the arrogance". Do that and think a little more outside the box.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Internet radio in cars won't work for the reasons I've outlined numerous times - and on the off chance it does, traditional broadcasters will be providing the content that people actually listen to.

Get with the program, man. That statement was already false three years ago. Only about half of the most listened-to Internet radio stations are run by "traditional broadcasters."

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

there's the insurance industry. They simply will not stand for people taking their eyes off the road to deal with mobile internet. That's Allstate's stand - you can bet on it - and they have a VERY powerful Washington lobby.

In-car internet will be banned for drivers before it gets off the ground...

The in-dash Internet radios I've seen are tuned by pre-programmed push-button only...no fiddling with a keyboard or keypad while driving, and no more or less dangerous to use than a standard car radio. Also, you forgot another group with a VERY powerful Washington lobby...the RIAA.

You won't find enough geeks in the real world willing to wire their laptop or pocket PC into their stereo just to listen to mobile streaming.

MP3-player adapters for cars are the hottest after-market audio accessory right now, and they use the same 2.5-mm plug-and-jack arrangement as PCs do. It's a no-brainer.

 

[Tom Wells]

Yay, El Cheapo has identified me as a geek because I soldered a connection!

I'm proud to be a geek on this account.
Ever since computer-heads have been identified as geeks I feel like I've had my rightful title stolen.
Thanks for the pat on the back.

He is right, though that nearly no one else would do this.
That's why there is currently a problem with Part 15 FM modulators.
They only work just so well, and only give medium quality audio.

 

[hipporadio]

Since "going digital" requires new radios, the stick industry could have used its influence to lobby for a new band of frequencies. The new band could have been set up to provide vastly improved signal coverage with less interference. They didn't do that because the cartel knew additional competing stations would be added - stations owned by outsiders. The cartel is all about playing monopoly. They want to control all of the pipes. They are dinosaurs.

vsa... You get "The Accuacy in Media Award" for the quoted statement in your post. THAT is exactly what WAS going on back in the 90s when this IBOC egg was in its incubator. I knew well two engineers who then worked for broadcasters who served on the Digital Radio Committee, and these men labored on the digital radio project on behalf of their employers and what would become USA Digital Radio, Inc. I personally toured their "experimental station" on 1660 in the north 'burbs of Cincinnati where the early IBOC tests were conducted. Some of these companies would later move their money (and influence) into what we now term "The Cartel"--I'm sure you know the suspects well!

I also have been closely-aquainted since the late 80s with a semi-syndicated talk show host who suffers NO LACK of industry contact with those familiar with the aspirations, motives, and priorites of the digital radio industry. All mentioned could happily (though discreetly) serve as a chorus for your post.

Thru all those formative years, the most frequently asked question was... "Why not a new band and scheme based on the Eureka 147 model similar to that adopted in Canada?" The answer was simple... "The big guys don't want to be forced into technical parody with the lower-powered stations almost certain to be awarded equal access to the digital network by the FCC."

Remember, this was several years BEFORE the current consolidation kicked off by the Telcom Bill in 1996. The sad (yet delightful) irony is... Those who lobbied and directed their digital future in a manner originally intended to restrict technical parody COULD have ended up becoming the wild beneficiaries of it under today's rules... They just refused to enjoy the forest for a few little trees! This would not be the first time the "corporate suites" in radio could be accused of suffering acute myopia--or pursuing instant gratification at the total expense of future gain... But now they reap what they so sinfully sow.

 

[hipporadio]

Yay, El Cheapo has identified me as a geek because I soldered a connection!

I'm proud to be a geek on this account.

He is right, though that nearly no one else would do this.
That's why there is currently a problem with Part 15 FM modulators.
They only work just so well, and only give medium quality audio.

We're proud of you also, Tom. You'll be out "saving humanity" while the Cheap One decorates his walls with IBOC FM dipoles--and searchs for the Dollar Menu at Micky-D's

BTW... Do you have any observations on the Hamilton Rangemaster AM-1000 Part 15 transmitter? I have a location on the South Carolina coast where I thought some good ole Part 15 may be some fun. No local X-Band by day... No IBOC ANYTIME... and all the advantages of A LOT of salt-water marsh!

http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/index.html

 

[ElCheapo]

ElCheapo wrote; "AM Stereo never made it because..."

And the radio industry couldn't convince enough people to buy AM stereo radios. You said the HD Radio cartel can sell anything if it wants to. No it can't.

ElCheapo wrote: "Internet radio in cars won't work...and on the off chance it does, traditional broadcasters will be providing the content that people actually listen to."

Yes, surviving traditional broadcasters will provide some of thesuccessful content. But many of those traditional broadcasters will be able to work for themselves, minus the suits who are absorbed with buying and selling sticks. I'm familiar with some of them who are already doing quite well viz-a-viz current traditional radio streams.

ElCheapo wrote: "...there is no way you could be making it in the business. You read like a washed-up has been (or never was) that's operating an internet stream. You're transparent."

Not falling for the bait to reveal my identity. David, I make it a point to know what's up around the bend and to make plans to adjust accordingly. The times for radio are changing rapidly. There will be an important book coming out early next year. It will be called "Revitalizing Radio" by Kurt Hanson. I suggest you pick up a copy and read it cover-to-cover. You're a very smart man who needs to "lose the arrogance". Do that and think a little more outside the box.

There was no "cartel" in the AM Stereo days. Do you think most FM stations wanted to see AM Stereo succeed?

Plenty of internet stations have failed. Anyone remember discjockey.com?

[EDIT]

And no, I'm most certainly not OldGringo - though we have conversed via e-mail a few times and I will take the comparison as a compliment. Yes, I also think David is a smart guy.



[EDIT-namecalling]

 

[vsa]

ElCheapo wrote: "Do you think most FM stations wanted to see AM Stereo succeed?"

A great many FM stations had co-owned AM stations.

ElCheapo wrote: "Plenty of internet stations have failed. Anyone remember discjockey.com?"

So.

[EDIT]



[EDIT-namecalling]

 

[vsa]

Let us, please, refrain from name-calling.

Have you read Jerry Del Colliano's "Inside Music Media" blog?

"Payback Time For The Consolidators

Clear Channel owns 1,150 radio stations and apparently can't seem to produce a stock price over $30 these days. That is until it announced intentions to pursue other options (like going private or selling assets). Not exactly a vote of confidence. And they're not alone, the other media companies are hurting (CBS Radio comes to mind. Notice they are selling not buying). My radio friends knew in 1996 that consolidation wasn't going to work..."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2006/10/payback-time-for-consolidators.html

Chickens coming home to roost? And HD Radio will NOT be a savior.

 

[Tom Wells]

This should probably be in community radio board, so I will be brief.
Quote from hipporadio:

BTW... Do you have any observations on the Hamilton Rangemaster AM-1000 Part 15 transmitter? I have a location on the South Carolina coast where I thought some good ole Part 15 may be some fun. No local X-Band by day... No IBOC ANYTIME... and all the advantages of A LOT of salt-water marsh!

http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/index.html

endquote

I refreshed myself on Part 15.219 for 525-1710 khz, helpfully reprinted on their site.
15.219 states the power input limit 100 mw, easy enough to regulate with a well designed solid state Xmitter, but
the total length for ground, feedline and antenna of 3 meters seems to be exceeded in every diagram they show.
The distance from ground to 1st floor ceiling of most houses would be about the height limit, if a ground is used.
This would seem to comply if no ground is used, but all diagrams and descriptions show a GOOD earth ground.
I think they are trying to "sneak one by" the customers, who would have no better excuse for the FCC than "they said it was legal".
As most installations would NOT easily acheive the best results cited, there is a reduced chance for any problems with interference or the FCC coming after them.
If the results seem to good to be true, then the intent of Pt 15 is circumvented, and the operator will be liable for fines.
Stay under the radar if you want to do this. Don't do such a great job that your signal attracts "too much" attention.
That said, a 3-meter antenna sticking up out of a salt marsh would probably do very well.
How to protect a transmitter from corrosion by salt water is a "whole 'nother matter".
Without a ground, I would expect far less coverage, but then elevating the antenna would not be of help.
I beleive the installations shown have significant ground wire radiation, making the results better than the regulation's intent and spirit.
Non-compliance, if undiscovered, is almost as good as compliance. "Almost" is the bugaboo here.
If discovered, this is not something you can bluff your way out of. My N.A.L. in 1991 was only $1000.
I had a good deal of fun for that $1000, with 100 watts on 7.415 Mhz.
The fines are a good deal higher now, I beleive. Have 10K of mad money ready if want to have a really good signal.
If you hold any FCC tickets, or work in the industry, it would also be quite embarrassing.

 

[hipporadio]

Quote from hipporadio: "Do you have any observations on the Hamilton Rangemaster AM-1000 Part 15 transmitter?"

I refreshed myself on Part 15.219 for 525-1710 khz, helpfully reprinted on their site.
15.219 states the power input limit 100 mw, easy enough to regulate with a well designed solid state Xmitter, but
the total length for ground, feedline and antenna of 3 meters seems to be exceeded in every diagram they show... I think they are trying to "sneak one by" the customers, who would have no better excuse for the FCC than "they said it was legal"... I beleive the installations shown have significant ground wire radiation, making the results better than the regulation's intent and spirit... If discovered, this is not something you can bluff your way out of.

THANKS Tom... I guess the old saying holds... "If it sounds to good to be true--it probably is"... Brings IBOC to mind... See--we justified your post on this question here in the "HD Radio" forum