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HD versus Internet Radio at Wal-Mart

R

radiopilot

This is what Wal-Mart is selling on it's shelves from a search I did..

Internet Ready receivers:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5018557

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5244396

These are plug into your computer and play devices... and not bad... I may just stop by and pick me up the Phillips unit. :D


And now HD Radio:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5336041

"Groundbreaking HD digital technology:

No subscription is needed to listen to HD radio technology with the sharpest, clearest reception and the best sound."


http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=4533&fromPageCatId=3983&catNavId=3983

What's funny is that they locate the Boston Acoustics radio with the portable players.. Ha ha... Who would pay 20 times as much for the $299.86 Boston Acoustics radio compared to the $14.86 radios?

The average consumer at Wal-Mart would not be inclined to spend that type of money on such an expensive 'clock radio'. ;D
 
You offer up these devices as "internet radio", when in fact THEY ARE NOT (as far as I can tell). They seem to "only" stream files from your PC, NOT receive internet radio.
 
Mike Walker said:
You offer up these devices as "internet radio", when in fact THEY ARE NOT (as far as I can tell). They seem to "only" stream files from your PC, NOT receive internet radio.
Click to expand...

Internet Radio is streaming files, whether it's through WIFI, PC, or any form on the internet... what's the difference whether the stereo is hooked up to the a broadband cable or dial up, or connected via a computer, the end result is selecting a radio station on the net and streaming mp3's to the end device.

I guess the catch all phrase is 'internet radio' and you think it's got to be 'airwaves'. WRONG!
 
Does it really matter? With the recent copyright royalty board decision all the webcasters are going to be out of business anyway.
 
EasyPeazy wrote: "With the recent copyright royalty board decision all the webcasters are going to be out of business anyway."

It's far from a done deal. Appeals, independent negotiations and Congressional intervention are very real possibilities that can alter the outcome.

In any case, the major Internet streamers such as AOL Radio and Yahoo's Launchcast are not likely to go away. They can afford to continue streaming. They will just have more listeners to themselves. Thousands of international webcasters will still be around. The door may only be closed for the small-to-medium streamers along with most broadcasters - the same broadcasters who can't afford to go HD or have been reluctant to spend much on streaming up until now.

Don't get your hopes up. None of the eventualities can or will help HD radio. It's not an either or situation. The pent up demand for cheap wireless broadband Internet connectivity is huge. The wait for the digital television transition in early 2009 and getting the infrastructure up is what's been holding everybody up. The only people who don't want it are those who are trying to preserve the past.

Oh, by the way, the RIAA wants to eliminate the loophole, that the NAB managed to slip into the 1995 DPRA and was preserved in the 1998 DMCA, that allows digital over-the-air broadcasting (HD radio) without paying music copyright royalties. That is their next target. The precedent has been set. Even a recent Los Angeles Times editorial called for all radio, digital and analog, to pay these outrageous royalties.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-radio08mar08,1,4659065.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Happy royalty payments, fellow broadcasters!
 
vsa said:
EasyPeazy wrote: "With the recent copyright royalty board decision all the webcasters are going to be out of business anyway."

It's far from a done deal. Appeals, independent negotiations and Congressional intervention are very real possibilities that can alter the outcome.

In any case, the major Internet streamers such as AOL Radio and Yahoo's Launchcast are not likely to go away. They can afford to continue streaming. They will just have more listeners to themselves. Thousands of international webcasters will still be around. The door may only be closed for the small-to-medium streamers along with most broadcasters - the same broadcasters who can't afford to go HD or have been reluctant to spend much on streaming up until now.

Don't get your hopes up. None of the eventualities can or will help HD radio. It's not an either or situation. The pent up demand for cheap wireless broadband Internet connectivity is huge. The wait for the digital television transition in early 2009 and getting the infrastructure up is what's been holding everybody up. The only people who don't want it are those who are trying to preserve the past.

Oh, by the way, the RIAA wants to eliminate the loophole, that the NAB managed to slip into the 1995 DPRA and was preserved in the 1998 DMCA, that allows digital over-the-air broadcasting (HD radio) without paying music copyright royalties. That is their next target. The precedent has been set. Even a recent Los Angeles Times editorial called for all radio, digital and analog, to pay these outrageous royalties.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-radio08mar08,1,4659065.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Happy royalty payments, fellow broadcasters!
Click to expand...

Personally I could care less what happens with internet radio. It isn't going to significantly effect terrestrial radio of any type for many, many years. Why we spend so much time discussing it here on the HD Radio board is a mystery to me. The internet radio board here is dead. Wonder why that is?

Here's an idea - the next time someone feels like starting an internet radio thread just to pound their chest, share their wishful thinking and say it's going to kill HD and/or traditional radio - why not do it over there? The board could use the traffic - seriously.

As far as congressional intervention goes, I doubt that will make much difference with regard to the CRB decision. The RIAA seems to be batting a thousand with Congress. The only other powerful lobby involved is the NAB and I doubt they're really all that concerned. Streaming is ancillary to over the air broadcasting.

As for drastically changing the royalty structure that radio pays, that will never happen either. As I've said before, the RIAA needs and wants radio's support. Without it, they won't sell many new records.
 
I'm sorry RadioPilot, but you would have to be the only person on earth who defines "internet radio" as streaming YOUR OWN FILES through YOUR HOME NETWORK. What's missing? Well two things actually. One...THE INTERNET! Never once do you touch "the internet" if you stream YOUR OWN FILES from YOUR OWN COMMERCIAL. And two: RADIO...at minimum a collection of recordings prepared by a "broadcaster" of some description for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION. Playing YOUR OWN RECORDINGS for an AUDIENCE OF ONE, whether via wire, or wireless, NEVER ONCE TOUCHING THE INTERNET...friend that's neither RADIO, nor INTERNET...so it sure as hell ain't "internet radio"!
 
Mike Walker said:
I'm sorry RadioPilot, but you would have to be the only person on earth who defines "internet radio" as streaming YOUR OWN FILES through YOUR HOME NETWORK. What's missing? Well two things actually. One...THE INTERNET! Never once do you touch "the internet" if you stream YOUR OWN FILES from YOUR OWN COMMERCIAL. And two: RADIO...at minimum a collection of recordings prepared by a "broadcaster" of some description for PUBLIC CONSUMPTION. Playing YOUR OWN RECORDINGS for an AUDIENCE OF ONE, whether via wire, or wireless, NEVER ONCE TOUCHING THE INTERNET...friend that's neither RADIO, nor INTERNET...so it sure as hell ain't "internet radio"!
Click to expand...

That's really funny Mike, I been listening to internet radio from all over the world and even simulcasting some of their music on my station on occasion... sorry you don't have the skills to do it yourself.... sadly they are not my own files that I'm listening to...

Here try this out and then ask whether they are my files on my 'hard drive' that I' streaming.

http://xpn.org/listen.php

Radiopilot
 
Reading comprehension is a handy skill, Radiopilot. Just so you know. I didn't say it wasn't possible to stream internet radio. I've been webcasting for a decade (on a small scale, mostly for my own amusement...but people do listen). My point was that the products you used as examples of "internet radio" devices neither touch the internet, nor do they do radio! They stream WHAT'S ON YOUR HARD DRIVE, within your network. That's neither "internet", nor is it "radio". Shoutcast is "internet radio". The things stations stream from their websites are "internet radio". A guy running a computer in his basement, feeding a dozen listeners an mp3 stream is 'internet radio'. A device which streams content from your main computer in one room, to a stereo system in another, never touching the internet, is neither "internet", nor is it "radio".

Now if your header had been "MP3 streaming versus Internet Radio at Wal Mart", and left "internet radio" out of it, we'd have no quarrel. Ok...a minor one. People listen to radio to hear music THEY DON'T HAVE, programmed by a human being. The one thing you'll never be listening to your own tunes is SURPRISED ;)
 
Mike Walker said:
Reading comprehension is a handy skill, Radiopilot. Just so you know. I didn't say it wasn't possible to stream internet radio. I've been webcasting for a decade (on a small scale, mostly for my own amusement...but people do listen). My point was that the products you used as examples of "internet radio" devices neither touch the internet, nor do they do radio! They stream WHAT'S ON YOUR HARD DRIVE, within your network. That's neither "internet", nor is it "radio". Shoutcast is "internet radio". The things stations stream from their websites are "internet radio". A guy running a computer in his basement, feeding a dozen listeners an mp3 stream is 'internet radio'. A device which streams content from your main computer in one room, to a stereo system in another, never touching the internet, is neither "internet", nor is it "radio".

Now if your header had been "MP3 streaming versus Internet Radio at Wal Mart", and left "internet radio" out of it, we'd have no quarrel. Ok...a minor one. People listen to radio to hear music THEY DON'T HAVE, programmed by a human being. The one thing you'll never be listening to your own tunes is SURPRISED ;)
Click to expand...

Sorry about my reading comprehension skills, guess graduate school was a waste of time on me!

Sorry but you need to revisit the Radio Shack website I posted regarding the devices I posted... they stream music from the internet onto your existing stereo system... via your computer that is streaming music off the internet... read again!

Yes ... I've seen you're website.. and it's just more than you listening for your amusement... in fact don't you have a subscription service for people on the web to subscribe to your web station?


"One to One Radio Podcast

My internet station podcasts the latest hour of programming when produced (usually once or twice per week).

Here's the link to the station http://www.onetooneradio.com
The link to subscribe http://www.theproductionroom.net/podcast2.xml
The link to my page on Feedburner http://feeds.feedburner.com/OneToOneRadio"
 
"Gradual school", huh? I guess we all complete things at our own pace (KIDDING...just illustrating that my reading comprehension ain't that great sometimes).

I know there ARE devices that allow streaming of web stations. But just between you and me, what percentage of Wal Mart shoppers do you think are even capable of setting up a home network properly? I'm kind of a tech-head, and mine took the better part of an afternoon for me...assigning ip addresses, allowing only devices with certain MAC addresses to log in, etc. It's not rocket science, but I'm pretty sure my mom couldn't do it (or my wife...at least not without cracking some books). Something that's still relatively "techy" isn't a great threat to something as simple as turning on a radio, imho.

Take care!
 
Mike Walker said:
"Gradual school", huh? I guess we all complete things at our own pace (KIDDING...just illustrating that my reading comprehension ain't that great sometimes).

I know there ARE devices that allow streaming of web stations. But just between you and me, what percentage of Wal Mart shoppers do you think are even capable of setting up a home network properly? I'm kind of a tech-head, and mine took the better part of an afternoon for me...assigning ip addresses, allowing only devices with certain MAC addresses to log in, etc. It's not rocket science, but I'm pretty sure my mom couldn't do it (or my wife...at least not without cracking some books). Something that's still relatively "techy" isn't a great threat to something as simple as turning on a radio, imho.

Take care!
Click to expand...

Most people under the age of 35 are very 'tech savvy' as most grew up in the digital era... My daughter at the age of 12 was already programming music for her 'techno dance' radio show on my station.. now my son is already a wizard on the radio playing his rock tunes... so even if the un-tech savvy 'moms and pops' out there can't figure how to plug a 'usb' connector to a computer.. there is always someone to lend a hand technically... kind of like when the cable guy had to come over to 'plug' the cable to the back of a TV in the old days....

But yet the HD followers on this board would have you installing all sorts of antennas, researching the perfect placement of antennas just to get a signal that all all reality is going to be 1/10th the signal strength when HD goes fully digital.... no more 50 kwatt trail brazers with the digital signal riding on the analog carrier... We'll see then how that signal 50-80 miles away comes in on that Accurian or Boston Acoustics.

I'm fifty and fortunately took aerospace engineering as my main focus, but did radio back in my college days, loved it but could not make money with it, now I'm consulting so it leaves me time to do some radio stuff and I love it and so does my listeners.. I don't webcast my music for the same reasons everyone is talking about... RIAA & others....

Radiopilot
 
Dude, in the same paragraph you rave about "setting up all sorts of antennas" AND about home wireless networks? You sure as hell have to get THOSE antennas placed for best coverage!

And I'd strongly challenge the idea that "most" people under 35 are tech saavy. Hell, MOST people under 35 are IDIOTS when it comes to science and technology. US students store almost dead last in science and math among industrialized countries. Having an Ipod, a computer, and a cell phone DOESN'T make you tech saavy. It means you're capable of learning simple graphic interfaces. USING a computer, or a digital audio device, and UNDERSTANDING HOW IT WORKS are two completely different things. Ask 20 random people under 35 that you say are "mostly tech saavy" what the "giga" in "gigahertz" stands for, and if three can tell you, I'd be shocked. Nevermind MAC addresses, IP configuration, and all the other stuff you have to know when setting up a network. "MOST" people don't even have networks. It's the geeks, man. You and me, and people like us. And trust me, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT LIKE US!

In an urban or suburban area, where most people actually live, HD radios are no more difficult to setup or use, and there are no more antenna issues, than conventional radio. Geez, getting better reception on a portable is usually as simple as rotating the antenna element...same as on a boombox (same as moving the headphone cord to get better reception on an AM/FM Walkman). HD is as simple as TURNING ON A RADIO. And until internet radio approaches that, it's never going to be a real threat. Fact: cume on terrestrial stations is UP, not down!
 
EasyPeazy wrote: "...Streaming is ancillary to over the air broadcasting...."

The horeseless carriage was once ancillary to the common horse and buggy. FM was once ancillary to AM radio.

EasyPeazy wrote: "...As for drastically changing the royalty structure that radio pays, that will never happen either.  As I've said before, the RIAA needs and wants radio's support.  Without it, they won't sell many new records..."

You don't believe me, do you? What if you read a direct quote from a top official with the RIAA or their sibling SoundExchange? Read this from Sunday's (3/18/07) Washington Post and wake up!

"...Congress decided that Web stations must pay royalties to the composers of each song and to the performers and record labels, even as traditional AM and FM broadcasters continue paying only the composers -- a quirk in the law that gives broadcast radio a huge advantage. [John] Simson [Executive Director of SoundExchange] agrees that "there's really no justification for broadcast radio not paying, and we're going to try to address that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600514.html

Not a high enough official for you? How about reading a (01/21/07) story in the UK's The Register? After an interview in France with the chairman and CEO of the RIAA, Mitch Bainwol, the writer says:

"....We....got a glimpse into where the RIAA expects revenue to come in the coming years. It's pushing for a public performance license for radio in the US, where by a historical fluke it doesn't exist (radio stations in most countries pay the performers for playing their music)..."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/21/riaa_reg_interview/
 
vsa said:
EasyPeazy wrote: "...Streaming is ancillary to over the air broadcasting...."

The horeseless carriage was once ancillary to the common horse and buggy. FM was once ancillary to AM radio.

EasyPeazy wrote: "...As for drastically changing the royalty structure that radio pays, that will never happen either. As I've said before, the RIAA needs and wants radio's support. Without it, they won't sell many new records..."

You don't believe me, do you? What if you read a direct quote from a top official with the RIAA or their sibling SoundExchange? Read this from Sunday's (3/18/07) Washington Post and wake up!

"...Congress decided that Web stations must pay royalties to the composers of each song and to the performers and record labels, even as traditional AM and FM broadcasters continue paying only the composers -- a quirk in the law that gives broadcast radio a huge advantage. [John] Simson [Executive Director of SoundExchange] agrees that "there's really no justification for broadcast radio not paying, and we're going to try to address that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600514.html

Not a high enough official for you? How about reading a (01/21/07) story in the UK's The Register? After an interview in France with the chairman and CEO of the RIAA, Mitch Bainwol, the writer says:

"....We....got a glimpse into where the RIAA expects revenue to come in the coming years. It's pushing for a public performance license for radio in the US, where by a historical fluke it doesn't exist (radio stations in most countries pay the performers for playing their music)..."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/21/riaa_reg_interview/
Click to expand...

And when will many of you realize that radio as we know it is much more than a jukebox. It's news, sports, talk and local service and yes music is also played but radio is much more.
 
R.F.Burns wrote: "And when will many of you realize that radio as we know it is much more than a jukebox. It's news, sports, talk and local service and yes music is also played but radio is much more. "

Of course, radio is much more than a jukebox. It's just that the RIAA and SoundExchange want their pound of flesh from broadcasters to play ANY music.
 
vsa said:
EasyPeazy wrote: "...Streaming is ancillary to over the air broadcasting...."

The horeseless carriage was once ancillary to the common horse and buggy. FM was once ancillary to AM radio.

EasyPeazy wrote: "...As for drastically changing the royalty structure that radio pays, that will never happen either. As I've said before, the RIAA needs and wants radio's support. Without it, they won't sell many new records..."

You don't believe me, do you? What if you read a direct quote from a top official with the RIAA or their sibling SoundExchange? Read this from Sunday's (3/18/07) Washington Post and wake up!

"...Congress decided that Web stations must pay royalties to the composers of each song and to the performers and record labels, even as traditional AM and FM broadcasters continue paying only the composers -- a quirk in the law that gives broadcast radio a huge advantage. [John] Simson [Executive Director of SoundExchange] agrees that "there's really no justification for broadcast radio not paying, and we're going to try to address that."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600514.html

Not a high enough official for you? How about reading a (01/21/07) story in the UK's The Register? After an interview in France with the chairman and CEO of the RIAA, Mitch Bainwol, the writer says:

"....We....got a glimpse into where the RIAA expects revenue to come in the coming years. It's pushing for a public performance license for radio in the US, where by a historical fluke it doesn't exist (radio stations in most countries pay the performers for playing their music)..."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/21/riaa_reg_interview/
Click to expand...

Oh, I believe there may be people at the RIAA that might want that to happen, but I also believe they will have a damn hard time selling new music without support from radio.

The NAB could call for a moratorium on new music adds until the RIAA decides to change its position - if it were ever ballsy enough to adopt that position in the first place.

Without adds at radio, the recording industry doesn't expose new music. When they don't expose new music, they don't sell records. It's simple as that.

If you don't believe the recording industry needs radio, you're fooling yourself. You need look no further than all the recent payola scandals to see just how badly the recording industry depends on radio. Payola is alive and well, just as it has been for the past 50 years. Record company money has paid for all sorts of cool things for radio programmers - cars, drugs, money, big screen TVs, vacations, etc. A station I worked at pre-consolidation made as much off independent record promoters as it did off ad revenue.

Do you really think the RIAA wants to piss off radio? If so, you're dreaming.
 
EasyPeazy wrote: "If you don't believe the recording industry needs radio, you're fooling yourself....A station I worked at pre-consolidation made as much off independent record promoters as it did off ad revenue."

(1) I never said that. And (2) you must be proud.

EasyPeazy also wrote: "Do you really think the RIAA wants to piss off radio?  If so, you're dreaming."

The RIAA had no problem pissing off radio by forcing radio to pay royalties for every song they stream from their websites, thanks to the 1998 DMCA. The NAB went to court and eventually LOST.

I'm trying to warn you. Here's what SOMA-FM's Rusty Hodge said today:

"...In a panel here at SXSW last week. The panelists (mostly label-related people) were talking about how the US is the only country that doesn't make broadcasters pay a fee for the performance of a sound recording. They also pointed out that the US is the only country that has a "Fair Use" clause in their copyright laws. They of course were saying this in the context of we need more euro-style copyright legislation here."

Be on your guard. Don't just assume. Be pro-active to keep webcasting options open for everyone, including broadcasters.


 
 
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