Heard another idiotic HD commercial on WZLX yesterday

[freqlost]

I heard a very good HD ad on WBCN today.
Came in to it as it was ongoing, so I don't know if it was a 30 second ad or longer.
The ad did give some mention to the "indie" type stuff they are playing on their HD3 channel.
It wasn't a lame generic ad.
More stations should play this type of ad.

 

[mgpt6]

The HD3 must be in mono. Does anyone know what the bit rate allocations are on the CBS FM stations in Boston? 3 have HD3s and ZLX has HD2. Couple of days ago I noticed that WCRB did have the IBOC hash. Nassau dropped the HD2 ,in a budget move have they dropped the HD1 and went analog only ?

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Couple of days ago I noticed that WCRB did have the IBOC hash. Nassau dropped the HD2 ,in a budget move have they dropped the HD1 and went analog only ?

You mean WCRB didn't have the "IBOC hash"? I just checked, WCRB is not broadcasting in HD right now.

That doesn't necessarily mean they dropped it in a "budget move". It could be just temporarily off for technical reasons, such as repairs, maintenance, tweaking... perhaps something intermittent...

 

[KB1OKL]

Just did HD scans on both AM and FM with my Sony XDR-F1HD with stock antennas set up correctly from Millbury, MA. Nada on AM and only WSRS (Paxton transmitter location I believe) HD-1 and HD-2 came in. I have the tuner going through a Marantz 2385 receiver with double large Advents so I can easily compare the two modes. WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD, more highs and bottom and clearer believe it or not and it is locked.
I have never received WBCN in HD although I've tried. It does come in here fine in analog however as do most Boston FM's. Does WICN Worcester broadcast in HD as ibiquity says on their website? if it does I've never received that either and it also comes in very good at this location in analog as would be expected.

 

[BRNout]

Just did HD scans on both AM and FM with my Sony XDR-F1HD with stock antennas set up correctly from Millbury, MA. Nada on AM and only WSRS (Paxton transmitter location I believe) HD-1 and HD-2 came in. I have the tuner going through a Marantz 2385 receiver with double large Advents so I can easily compare the two modes. WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD, more highs and bottom and clearer believe it or not and it is locked.
I have never received WBCN in HD although I've tried. It does come in here fine in analog however as do most Boston FM's. Does WICN Worcester broadcast in HD as ibiquity says on their website? if it does I've never received that either and it also comes in very good at this location in analog as would be expected.

Yep, another typical result when it comes to HD. The observations I've been reading on these boards have mirrored my own experience with our HD system. Terrible. The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

 

[Don Juan]

WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD..

So? Just listen in analog if you like it better. What's stopping you?

The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

You guys and the "sidebands".....

Let's get specific.

BRNout, what station are you trying to listen to, and from where....that the sidebands get in your way?

Also, what "powerhouse" won't decode for you from where?

 

[BRNout]

WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD..

So? Just listen in analog if you like it better. What's stopping you?

The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

You guys and the "sidebands".....

Let's get specific.

BRNout, what station are you trying to listen to, and from where....that the sidebands get in your way?

Also, what "powerhouse" won't decode for you from where?

Okay, the sideband comment is general in that they mix in with the analog signal on a good, wideband radio and cause all sorts of screwy problems at night. Mind you, I've had to move around a little more in the past 2-3 years than I would have liked, so basically NH/MA border -> Philly suburbs -> Chicago area. Bought the HD radio near Philly, and lived on a hill with the Roxborough towers visible from the hill above our place. Straight shot, FM overload; yet we still had to play with the FM antenna to get the FM HDs in. Some would drop out now and then despite the robustness of those signals. As for AM there, KYW was a powerhouse in our area, yet could not decode reliably. WPHT is a 50 kw signal, but the tx was across the river in NJ - no prayer of HD from them. In fact, no AM HD at all there.

Now, here 20-25 miles NNW of downtown Chicago, very few HD-2's come in. Pretty much only WPPN 106.7 (tower is 3 miles from here) and some in and out fading from WLIT's and WXRT's HD signals. Most Chicago FMs do not decode in HD despite a lot of time spent with the antenna and signals that are local grade on every other radio in the house.

As for AM's, it's even bleaker. WBBM's tx is about 10 miles from here and it pounds in here. Any stronger and it would be audible in the phone lines! Yet, I cannot get the HD to decode. Just cuts in and out. Yeah, we have the sidebands audible out past Davenport, IA (170 miles away) - yet I can't decode the HD 10 friggin miles from the transmitter!

WSCR, WMVP and (especially) WLS are all located farther from me than WBBM and - despite strong analog signals - no HD reception. Same deal as WBBM - sidebands can be heard in analog for hundreds of miles, yet it's not good enough to decode on my HD radio. However, trying to listen to any of them with my GE Superadio III brings forth flat audio and the sound of a jet engine warming up in the background. When WLS kills their hashmaker for the day (which they've done a lot lately), I get clean, crisp audio from them on the same radio with a very low noise floor. I'd love to somehow document the difference with the analog because it's night and day.

Honestly, when I lived in the Nashua area, I had a feeling that none of the Boston signals would possibly be strong enough (AM or FM) to decode the digital signal. Because we're talking about having issues with 9/10 signals in CHI and PHL and most Boston market signals were 6, 7 or (at best) 8 of 10 there. That's why I waited to buy the HD until I lived in an area where I thought it would be worth it.

Sadly, all in all, very lackluster performance from this technology. Not at all worth the money, time or trouble. Yeah, I can see the pluses on FM - though it's a trade off. For AM, it's worthless and destructive in ruining the analog audio, raising the overall noise floor and jamming other broadcasters signals.

Hope that's specific enough to give you an idea of what my complaint is.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD..

So? Just listen in analog if you like it better. What's stopping you?

Some receivers, such as my Sangean HDT-1, don't have switchable analog/HD mode. If the signal is strong enough to decode in HD, you can't switch it back to analog.

The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

Here in Somerville, I get full, consistent AM HD decoding on WBZ, WMKI, and WXKS, the three immediate Boston metro stations currently running it. I also got WILD in HD when they ran it very briefly a couple of years ago.

On the FM side, I get consistent HD on WERS, WGBH, WBUR, WBOS, WMKK, WJMN, WTKK, WKAF, WBMX, WZLX, WKLB, WODS, WBCN, WROR, WMJX and WXKS-FM.

I also get intermittent, antenna-placement dependent HD reception on WUMB, WCRB (off at the moment), WSRS and WAAF.

 

[Don Juan]

The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

You guys and the "sidebands".....

Let's get specific.

BRNout, what station are you trying to listen to, and from where....that the sidebands get in your way?

Also, what "powerhouse" won't decode for you from where?

Okay, the sideband comment is general in that they mix in with the analog signal on a good, wideband radio and cause all sorts of screwy problems at night.

This is just the generic complaint again.

Again, specifics. What AM station are you trying to listen to that you can't because the sidebands of another station prevent you.....and from what location?

Now, here 20-25 miles NNW of downtown Chicago, very few HD-2's come in.

As for AM's, it's even bleaker. WBBM's tx is about 10 miles from here and it pounds in here. Any stronger and it would be audible in the phone lines! Yet, I cannot get the HD to decode.

Sound like it might be a crappy radio or some other situation... The first generations of radios were pretty crappy..... Look at Eli's post and his experiences. I would think there should be much of a problem within 20 miles. But we know the HD signals don't extend the same reach as the analog for now.

Sadly, all in all, very lackluster performance from this technology. Not at all worth the money, time or trouble.

Well, technology is never done. It will get better. The power increase will no doubt help....and each new generation of receivers is getting better.

For AM, it's worthless and destructive in ruining the analog audio, raising the overall noise floor and jamming other broadcasters signals.

This is the same generic complaint we hear from people who are DX-ers and hobbyist.....that the average listener does not care about.

 

[KB1OKL]

WSRS in analog sounds much better than it does in HD..

So? Just listen in analog if you like it better. What's stopping you?

Some receivers, such as my Sangean HDT-1, don't have switchable analog/HD mode. If the signal is strong enough to decode in HD, you can't switch it back to analog.

My radio doesn't either in fact I've never heard of an IBOC radio that will allow you to shut off HD without modding it (THEY KNOW). I'm making the comparison to my Marantz 2385 receiver, 240WRMS per channel driven continously @ 4 ohms into two pairs of 8 ohm Large advents, the Sony tuner (not radio) is also plugged into this set up. It's plugged into the auxilliary jack which allows me to use the pre and power amp of the Marantz and the Advent Speakers, this set up is very loud and very clear and differences between the two tuners and modes are readily appararent. With this set up WSRS in analog sounded much better than in HD and I all I had to do was push one button to make the switch.I'm not saying all FM hD's sound better in analog but this one does. I'm not partial to the music so I don't listen to it at all but it was the only one that would come in today.

The AM side is the most amazing of all: sidebands screwing up the damn band, yet you can't get the powerhouse down the street to decode in HD.

Here in Somerville, I get full, consistent AM HD decoding on WBZ, WMKI, and WXKS, the three immediate Boston metro stations currently running it. I also got WILD in HD when they ran it very briefly a couple of years ago.

On the FM side, I get consistent HD on WERS, WGBH, WBUR, WBOS, WMKK, WJMN, WTKK, WKAF, WBMX, WZLX, WKLB, WODS, WBCN, WROR, WMJX and WXKS-FM.

I also get intermittent, antenna-placement dependent HD reception on WUMB, WCRB (off at the moment), WSRS and WAAF.

I should hope that you'd get all those stations in HD in Sommerville, how far are you from the antennas? I can get them all in analog in Millbury with the Marantz which is 30 years old BTW.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Here in Somerville, I get full, consistent AM HD decoding on WBZ, WMKI, and WXKS, the three immediate Boston metro stations currently running it. I also got WILD in HD when they ran it very briefly a couple of years ago.

On the FM side, I get consistent HD on WERS, WGBH, WBUR, WBOS, WMKK, WJMN, WTKK, WKAF, WBMX, WZLX, WKLB, WODS, WBCN, WROR, WMJX and WXKS-FM.

I also get intermittent, antenna-placement dependent HD reception on WUMB, WCRB (off at the moment), WSRS and WAAF.

I should hope that you'd get all those stations in HD in Sommerville, how far are you from the antennas? I can get them all in analog in Millbury with the Marantz which is 30 years old BTW.

I'm only about 3 miles from the Pru, about 12 miles to FM-128. Maybe about 15 to WMKK in Peabody.

Of course you can get all those in analog. I was talking about HD. In analog, I can get many Rhode Island, Southeastern MA, Central MA, and NH FM stations. I also have one of those excellent Marantz receivers from the mid-'70s. It worked until a few years ago when the right channel amp began making horrendous noises sounding like a machine gun firing. The FM reception used to blow away anything I've ever owned since.

 

[necrat123]

My radio doesn't either in fact I've never heard of an IBOC radio that will allow you to shut off HD without modding it (THEY KNOW).

Sorry to debunk your little conspiracy theory there, but my JVC KDR-HD1 in my car, "Mode" "4" switches the radio from Auto to Digital Only to Analog Only.

(It can also be switched from stereo to mono! Which is nice for listening to college stations which have the audio out of phase!)

 

[necrat123]

My radio doesn't either in fact I've never heard of an IBOC radio that will allow you to shut off HD without modding it (THEY KNOW).

Sorry to debunk your little conspiracy theory there, but my JVC KDR-HD1 in my car, "Mode" "4" switches the radio from Auto to Digital Only to Analog Only.

(It can also be switched from stereo to mono! Which is nice for listening to college stations which have the audio out of phase!)

With that said, it would be nice if the Sony tuner (which I also have) , had the option built into it.
(As well as a stereo/mono option). I'd also like to see radios also have a tech menu so you can see the current SNR of the digital signals.

I often am not too surprised you don't get the digitals in Millbury. In my times driving through there, I noticed there are some horrible spots for analog reception from Boston, much less digital.

 

[KB1OKL]

Yeah Millbury isn't an FM mecca that's for sure but I do get most of them in analog on the Marantz which has a great FM section in it, too bad the AM section is so so.

 

[KB1OKL]

Here in Somerville, I get full, consistent AM HD decoding on WBZ, WMKI, and WXKS, the three immediate Boston metro stations currently running it. I also got WILD in HD when they ran it very briefly a couple of years ago.

On the FM side, I get consistent HD on WERS, WGBH, WBUR, WBOS, WMKK, WJMN, WTKK, WKAF, WBMX, WZLX, WKLB, WODS, WBCN, WROR, WMJX and WXKS-FM.

I also get intermittent, antenna-placement dependent HD reception on WUMB, WCRB (off at the moment), WSRS and WAAF.

I should hope that you'd get all those stations in HD in Sommerville, how far are you from the antennas? I can get them all in analog in Millbury with the Marantz which is 30 years old BTW.

I'm only about 3 miles from the Pru, about 12 miles to FM-128. Maybe about 15 to WMKK in Peabody.

Of course you can get all those in analog. I was talking about HD. In analog, I can get many Rhode Island, Southeastern MA, Central MA, and NH FM stations. I also have one of those excellent Marantz receivers from the mid-'70s. It worked until a few years ago when the right channel amp began making horrendous noises sounding like a machine gun firing. The FM reception used to blow away anything I've ever owned since.

There's a guy on the web, forgot his name but he restores old Marantz's, mine also had a probem in one of the channels and I shipped it to him, he fixed it and aligned it, the thing sounds great now and I'd never buy a new receiver, this thing kills most of them, no chips in this baby, it has all discrete transistors and almost sounds tube like in it's smoothness even at extremely high volumes which it has plenty of. If you're interested I can try to look through my literature and find his web address.

 

[KB1OKL]

My radio doesn't either in fact I've never heard of an IBOC radio that will allow you to shut off HD without modding it (THEY KNOW).

Sorry to debunk your little conspiracy theory there, but my JVC KDR-HD1 in my car, "Mode" "4" switches the radio from Auto to Digital Only to Analog Only.

(It can also be switched from stereo to mono! Which is nice for listening to college stations which have the audio out of phase!)
I figured some car receivers would have them but have never heard of a table model that had this feature. There is a place on the web where they give directions for putting an analog/HD switch in an XDR-F1HD, try checking at the AVS forum.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

There's a guy on the web, forgot his name but he restores old Marantz's, mine also had a probem in one of the channels and I shipped it to him, he fixed it and aligned it, the thing sounds great now and I'd never buy a new receiver, this thing kills most of them, no chips in this baby, it has all discrete transistors and almost sounds tube like in it's smoothness even at extremely high volumes which it has plenty of. If you're interested I can try to look through my literature and find his web address.

Thanks, I might want to contact him. I've had a couple of repair shops around here try to scam me because they know that those vintage Marantz's can go for $1000 bids to audiophiles on eBay, but they could only charge me about a couple hundred bucks parts and labor to fix it, so they tell me, "It can't be fixed, it's fried, it's junk. It's worthless, you don't want it back. You might as well just leave it here".

So I go back to the shop right away and grab it, still broken, and take it back home, because I know that if I didn't, I would see it all fixed up selling for $1000 bids on eBay the next week.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Couple of days ago I noticed that WCRB did have the IBOC hash. Nassau dropped the HD2 ,in a budget move have they dropped the HD1 and went analog only ?

WCRB HD is now back on. Must have been a temporary technical problem.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

it would be nice if the Sony tuner (which I also have) , had the option built into it.

I haven't looked for this myself, but ISTR that instructions for a "force analog" switch for the Sony tuner are floating around on the web somewhere.

 

[KB1OKL]

it would be nice if the Sony tuner (which I also have) , had the option built into it.

I haven't looked for this myself, but ISTR that instructions for a "force analog" switch for the Sony tuner are floating around on the web somewhere.

Yeah I've seen it in fact today but forgot where, it's an in depth technical review of the Sony by a very experienced ham (also perhaps an engineer?). If I find it again I'll post it and also will post the Marantz repairman, who was very reasonable and did a great job.

This place specializes in Marantz, it's not the same one as I used but seems fairly reasonable.

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/marantz.htm