Heeee's Baaaack.

[kirksan]

I just heard Ronn Owen's tease on his first day back from vacation. It sounds like he's not even going to talk about the changes at KGO. Wow? After his dismal, I'm "excited" about the new format", performance two weeks ago it's pretty sad. Maybe he'll say something at the top of the hour, but it sure sounds like that's it.

 

[recto101]

I just heard Ronn Owen's tease on his first day back from vacation. It sounds like he's not even going to talk about the changes at KGO. Wow? After his dismal, I'm "excited" about the new format", performance two weeks ago it's pretty sad. Maybe he'll say something at the top of the hour, but it sure sounds like that's it.

Well he has to say that to please the PD.

 

[DavidKaye]

I just heard Ronn Owen's tease on his first day back from vacation. It sounds like he's not even going to talk about the changes at KGO. Wow? After his dismal, I'm "excited" about the new format", performance two weeks ago it's pretty sad. Maybe he'll say something at the top of the hour, but it sure sounds like that's it.

It's yesterday's news. There is no reason for him to talk about it. If you dislike what he does so much, why do you listen to him? I don't listen to him.

 

[LKellerIII]

I just heard Ronn Owen's tease on his first day back from vacation. It sounds like he's not even going to talk about the changes at KGO. Wow? After his dismal, I'm "excited" about the new format", performance two weeks ago it's pretty sad. Maybe he'll say something at the top of the hour, but it sure sounds like that's it.

It's yesterday's news. There is no reason for him to talk about it. If you dislike what he does so much, why do you listen to him? I don't listen to him.

Just a thought, David - of course, you are free to say whatever you want. But maybe the reason people are trashing you lately is that you've really ratcheted up the snark in your comments to a pretty hyperbolic level.

Kirksan didn't even say s/he disliked Ronn Owens, just that he found Ronn's attittude toward the format change "sad." I don't particulary agree, and I haven't personally listened to Owens for a long time either - but I found your response a bit on the shrill side.

Similarly, your response to Skyrocker that his post was "...the most preposterous thing I've read here in awhile." Agree or not, I'm sure you know where he's coming from - perhaps you can empathize with his frustration, and disagree politely.

Just a suggestion...

 

[Phedeks]

I just heard Ronn Owen's tease on his first day back from vacation. It sounds like he's not even going to talk about the changes at KGO. Wow? After his dismal, I'm "excited" about the new format", performance two weeks ago it's pretty sad. Maybe he'll say something at the top of the hour, but it sure sounds like that's it.

It's yesterday's news. There is no reason for him to talk about it. If you dislike what he does so much, why do you listen to him? I don't listen to him.

You always seem to side with the corporate radio machine no matter what. Are you trying to get the attention clear channel or do you already work for them. You're pretty annoying.

 

[EastBay]

It's actually not yesterday's news...there was a protest against Cumulus just today in front of the KGO studios. Sure, the mass firing happened a few weeks ago, but the fallout from this has only really started. Perhaps when other stations in other markets are shaken up like KGO was, it's not considered such a big deal. But KGO was not just some little station in some small market- it was a San Francisco institution with a hugely loyal following. Like it or not, this is going to be discussed for a long time to come...and it should be.

 

[kirksan]

It's yesterday's news. There is no reason for him to talk about it. If you dislike what he does so much, why do you listen to him? I don't listen to him.

I don't listen to him, anymore. It's hardly yesterday's news though. He's just returned from vacation and the one show he did on the subject was a disgrace. I would have liked some comment, particularly since he took the time to write an open letter to his listeners. Plus, there was a demonstration at the station today. All of that makes it relevant. IMHO, his not even mentioning the issue spoke volumes.

 

[DavidKaye]

Just a thought, David - of course, you are free to say whatever you want. But maybe the reason people are trashing you lately is that you've really ratcheted up the snark in your comments to a pretty hyperbolic level.

Personally, I don't care if people online are trashing me or not. The Internet is not real. This is the way I react online when I read things that seem petty and look like whining. I hate whiners.

I'm totally different in person because knowing someone and reading them online are totally different things. You may not notice it but there are certain posters here I will never trash or even argue with; that's because I know them personally. People who take the time to know me or help me out with projects or whatever are always off-limits (well there's one exception, but that's all) because they've made the effort to get to know me. That's very important to me.

Similarly, your response to Skyrocker that his post was "...the most preposterous thing I've read here in awhile." Agree or not, I'm sure you know where he's coming from - perhaps you can empathize with his frustration, and disagree politely.

Uh, you want I should be giving you etiquette lessons? Probably not. I have begun more topics here than any other single person. I have contributed immensely to the body of knowledge here. I have no apologies, nor do I feel any need to change my approach.

 

[LKellerIII]

Just a thought, David - of course, you are free to say whatever you want. But maybe the reason people are trashing you lately is that you've really ratcheted up the snark in your comments to a pretty hyperbolic level.

Personally, I don't care if people online are trashing me or not. The Internet is not real. This is the way I react online when I read things that seem petty and look like whining. I hate whiners.

I'm totally different in person because knowing someone and reading them online are totally different things. You may not notice it but there are certain posters here I will never trash or even argue with; that's because I know them personally. People who take the time to know me or help me out with projects or whatever are always off-limits (well there's one exception, but that's all) because they've made the effort to get to know me. That's very important to me.

Similarly, your response to Skyrocker that his post was "...the most preposterous thing I've read here in awhile." Agree or not, I'm sure you know where he's coming from - perhaps you can empathize with his frustration, and disagree politely.

Uh, you want I should be giving you etiquette lessons? Probably not. I have begun more topics here than any other single person. I have contributed immensely to the body of knowledge here. I have no apologies, nor do I feel any need to change my approach.

Oh, I'm sorry...please accept my humble apology...I forgot for a moment that you were the Oracle of All Wisdom here at Radio-Info. I bow to your knowledge, so please feel free to berate and belittle me and all others who go here, when we express an opinion counter to yours, as you add to the body of knowledge in order to make us better people. Jeez - not deficient in the EGO department, are ya?

Seriously though, I have learned a lot from your posts here, as I have learned from others who post. Maybe I'm off base, but it seems like your approach has gotten much more shrill and combative lately.

Last point - I wasn't trying to give you "etiquette lessons," nor would I accept any from you. But it seems to me that you don't have to tear people down just to express your opinions...or to impart facts.

 

[calguy]

Ahh, I've seen that ego before... Arrogant teachers behave that way. You can learn a lot from them, but the ego can turn you off. Personally, I doubt there's much Mr. Kaye could teach Skyrocker. I know who he is, and since he's a radio God, I would defer to his knowledge and wisdom. What I have noticed here and elsewhere on the internet is that same nasty personality. The one that says, hey, I'm anonymous to just about everyone here, so I'll just be mean. Oh and I do know Skyrocker personally, but I would defer to his wisdom even if I didn't because the man was there, he accomplished something, and he did it well over and over, again and again in his career.

Now, can we all just get along?

 

[DavidKaye]

I bow to your knowledge, so please feel free to berate and belittle me and all others who go here, when we express an opinion counter to yours, as you add to the body of knowledge in order to make us better people. Jeez - not deficient in the EGO department, are ya?

Okay, will do. Meanwhile, one has to have an ego in order to succeed in broadcasting. That's how I managed to spend 10 years in the business. If you can't accept the ego, don't toy with broadcasting.

But notice that I always bow to informed opinion. You'll note that I nearly always accept without question David Eduardo's programming and station management opinions, Weav's and Tim Pozar's engineering opinions, Phil Kane's regulatory opinions, etc. These are folks who work or have worked in the industry for great lengths of time and are also very bright and astute observers of the industry as well.

Then there are others who spent maybe a year or two as a DJ at a college station, who haven't a CLUE about how broadcasting works and yet they call others stupid for their management or programming decisions. Those are the ones I can't stand to read, because they contribute nothing but idle conjecture.

Believe me, the people who run Cumulus, CBS, and Clear Channel did not get into their positions because they were stupid. They know what they're doing, though in the case of Cumulus, they handled the firing of the KGO people like clods. Having managed people I'd have handled it differently. I'd have announced a format change and given a commemoration party for those folks let go, and some kind of appreciation gifts (not as corny as the gold watch, but definitely something of value), and lots of testimonial speeches about what a great run it was. It would probably have been worth airing on KGO itself. Then the next day switch to the new format.

There is no doubt in my mind that KGO had to let go of some of those folks; being the professionals that they are, those let go certainly understood that this was going to happen eventually. It wasn't the programming decision that was the problem, but the way it was handled.

 

[kirksan]

Having managed people I'd have handled it differently. I'd have announced a format change and given a commemoration party for those folks let go, and some kind of appreciation gifts (not as corny as the gold watch, but definitely something of value), and lots of testimonial speeches about what a great run it was. It would probably have been worth airing on KGO itself. Then the next day switch to the new format.

I disagree with this. I've been in the unfortunate position to have to terminate someone's employment a number of times, both individually and en masse as part of a layoff. I'd equate the KGO situation as similar to a layoff. While I'm royally pissed at what Cumulus did, I'm probably in the minority at understanding the method they chose. When you terminate employees you never know how they're going to react; most people deal with it in a mature manner, but some don't. Over the years I've been involved in four layoffs and each time a security guard was arranged just in case someone didn't take the situation well. Fortunately the guard has never been needed, but I suspect having them there prevented some problems before they occurred.

You have to remember that KGO also let go a number of support staff, some of whom may not have responded as professionally as the on-air folks. Plus, throwing a party for people who may be worried about how to pay their mortgage is a bit classless; it's much better to get it over with.

Also, it's my understanding that there's a broadcasting tradition of never letting a terminated employee back on air just in case they say or do something inappropriate. As harsh as it may be, I think that's a good policy.

There is no doubt in my mind that KGO had to let go of some of those folks; being the professionals that they are, those let go certainly understood that this was going to happen eventually. It wasn't the programming decision that was the problem, but the way it was handled.

For me it was the programming decision that's the problem. Sure, Cumulus has every right to make this change, but because they have the right, that doesn't make it right.

KGO was a beloved bay area institution. What Cumulus did is similar to what almost happened to the San Francisco Giants, another beloved bay area institution, in 1992. I'm sure you remember, at that time an ownership group planned to move the team to the Tampa Bay area and there was a massive uproar. The Giants were playing in a horrible stadium and building a new park seemed impossible in the NIMBY Bay Area. Fortunately, Major League Baseball blocked the move and a new ownership group actually came up with creative solutions to build a new park and the team is now one of the most successful and valuable in baseball.

What Cumulus did was the equivalent of packing the bags and moving to Tampa Bay in the middle of the night. Sure, they have the right to do that, but they shouldn't have that right and we have the right to be pissed. Unlike the Giants situation, there was no-one to block the move, thanks to deregulation.

In an era of deregulation and corporations owning large numbers of stations without any local ties, it's easy for station managers to take the easy way out; cut costs so they get the maximum profit at the expense of the listeners. Cumulus are cowards who are taking the easy way out.

Sure, KGO needed to make changes. With creative management those changes could have improved the station and the listener's experience, most likely resulting in a far more valuable property for the station's owners -- much like the Giants did. Stripping KGO bare to eek out every last dollar doesn't help anyone except the owners in the short term, and no-one in the long term. That's why I'm pissed.

 

[LKellerIII]

Ahh, I've seen that ego before... Arrogant teachers behave that way. You can learn a lot from them, but the ego can turn you off. Personally, I doubt there's much Mr. Kaye could teach Skyrocker. I know who he is, and since he's a radio God, I would defer to his knowledge and wisdom. What I have noticed here and elsewhere on the internet is that same nasty personality. The one that says, hey, I'm anonymous to just about everyone here, so I'll just be mean. Oh and I do know Skyrocker personally, but I would defer to his wisdom even if I didn't because the man was there, he accomplished something, and he did it well over and over, again and again in his career.

Now, can we all just get along?

Yes.

 

[DavidKaye]

I disagree with this. I've been in the unfortunate position to have to terminate someone's employment a number of times, both individually and en masse as part of a layoff. I'd equate the KGO situation as similar to a layoff. While I'm royally pissed at what Cumulus did, I'm probably in the minority at understanding the method they chose. When you terminate employees you never know how they're going to react; most people deal with it in a mature manner, but some don't.

Actually, I addressed this early on. I believe in terminating an on-air employee without goodbyes because, after all, you wouldn't lay off a carpenter in your construction business and allow them to say goodbye to all your customers. I don't believe a mic gives anybody special powers.

But there is audience backlash at work here. It's not like KMEL let go of a DJ who nobody's going to remember 6 months later. Heck, KGO listeners are still talking about Ira Blue, and that's from 40+ years ago!

What I was suggesting is that talkshow hosts could have been taken off the air, then a party held in their honor for their contributions to the station, and the new format started the next day. This would involve reruns (as KGO did anyway) for a day or two. Sure, having a party some former employees could bitch, but I doubt any would if they're being honored for their work and the get a chance to tell their listeners how to reach them in the future, etc.

Over the years I've been involved in four layoffs and each time a security guard was arranged just in case someone didn't take the situation well. Fortunately the guard has never been needed, but I suspect having them there prevented some problems before they occurred.

Oh, I understand 100%, and in any other situation I'd agree, but these guys have been there for 20+ years and are consummate professionals. I think policy could have been changed for this situation; that's all I'm saying.

You have to remember that KGO also let go a number of support staff, some of whom may not have responded as professionally as the on-air folks. Plus, throwing a party for people who may be worried about how to pay their mortgage is a bit classless; it's much better to get it over with.

I'm not talking about support staff. And the on-air staff (which is the only staff the listeners care about anyway) were given severance of one sort or another. Again, this is broadcasting; they knew it was coming.

Also, it's my understanding that there's a broadcasting tradition of never letting a terminated employee back on air just in case they say or do something inappropriate. As harsh as it may be, I think that's a good policy.

However, that's the difference between a seasoned professional and a yokel. Doug McIntyre was fired from KABC mornings and as of January 3 he's back on mornings at KABC. Again, I agree with you almost 100%, but in the KGO situation I think it could have been handled better.