help for a newbie

[docsitto]

After reading the excellent sharing of info on this board I am swallowing some pride and asking for advice. Although I am an old school (a really old school) radio dude--I am ignorant of technical stuff. I want to have a nice little home studio where I can do simple VO projects and be able to track some radio shows. Possibly put up an Internet radio station. I am not expecting to become a full time VO or virtual jock or make a living from it. I have a good radio gig and plan to keep it as long as possible.

For a budget of around $2,500... what do I need?

I have collected the following over the past few years--but haven't done anything with them yet. I have a 1.83 Ghz Intel MAC w/1 gig memory and a couple of back-up MAC's and a PC laptop. I have a new Shure SM7B. I have an older Mackie 12 channel mixer that needs to be replaced. I have ProTools LE 5.2 loaded but very limited knowledge.

Please speak slowly and in plain english... thank you in advance for not tearing me a new one. ;-)

doc

 

[Emmett1057]

Nobody will tear you a new one, nut the first question is, are you happy with your computer? If you're satisfied with it, that saves a lot of expense right there. I would recommend upgrading to the latest version of Pro Tools (7.4???). I hear it's great.

What about your mic? Are you pleased with the sound of the SM7B? If you don't like it, we can make some recommendations. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Why do you need a mixer? Maybe it doesn't need to be replaced. Maybe it can be eliminated.

What are you using to get the audio to the Mac? Do you have an Mbox? Digi001?

Does the thought of a mic processor appeal to you? You can, of course, do your processing with software, but many of us prefer hardware. That's completely personal preference.

The only thing I highly recommend is a good preamp. You can also add a processor, if you prefer, but a preamp for sure. There are some very good standalone preamps in the $600 range. I would also suggest new cables if yours are a little old. So let's say $600 for a preamp and $100 for cables. That leaves you $1800 to play with.

Emmett

 

[marketweis]

That leaves you $1800 to play with.

Emmett

Don't forget doing something to treat the recording environment. If not using a walk-in closet and therefore needing to treat a bedroom or some other space, that'll run a few bucks.

 

[choicevoicepro.com]

All due respect to Emmett - cabling should be more than $100.00. Do yourself a favor and don't look for deals on cables. Mine was "customed" by Redco (the tech that put my studio together insisted on it)

He's right about Pro Tools though. I'm glad I spent the money. It is an awesome tool!

 

[voicetrack]

For soundproofing, save yourself some bucks and buy a couple of matress pads at Walmart for about $20/ea. Works just fine in my home studio. I bought a nice 6 channel mixer at Radio Shack for $100. Found a used copy of of Adobe 1.5 really cheap (savvy internet users can easily find the same deal....). Paid $100 for my Shure SM58 at BSW. I went all out on my computer; Gateway 506GR. 7 USB ports and a ton of memory that I havent come close to filling in 3 years.

For less than $1500, I have a studio that rivals any prod room I've ever worked in.

 

[Emmett1057]

All due respect to Emmett - cabling should be more than $100.00. Do yourself a favor and don't look for deals on cables. Mine was "customed" by Redco (the tech that put my studio together insisted on it)

He's right about Pro Tools though. I'm glad I spent the money. It is an awesome tool!

Ever heard the "Monster Cable vs. Coat hangers" test? Five trained listeners, not one could tell a difference in a blind test between a Monster 1000 Series cable and a coat hanger soldered between two pieces of cheap cabling with conectors at each end. On short runs, cable makes very, very little difference, as long as you use a decent quality cable and good connectors. I make my own cables these days, but if I were purchasing, much more than about $25 for a single cable is a waste. The exception is if you're doing long runs. My longest run is about 10 feet.

I'm not saying I suggest using ghetto materials, but you figure $25-35 for a quality mic cable to the mixer and $25-35 each for two TRS cables to the soundcard...About $100. Any cable in that price range should have Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors, good sheilding and quad-style wiring.

I do agree about acoustic treatment. I recommend 703 or 705-FRK fiberglass for DIY jobs or GIK Acoustics for pre-made stuff. The mattress pads at Wal Mart will help cut down reflections in a recording environment, but will not fair well in a production room because they're useless below about 400-500Hz.

Emmett

 

[Lee_Sackett]

I do agree about acoustic treatment. I recommend 703 or 705-FRK fiberglass for DIY jobs or GIK Acoustics for pre-made stuff. The mattress pads at Wal Mart will help cut down reflections in a recording environment, but will not fair well in a production room because they're useless below about 400-500Hz.

Emmett

http://www.palmcitystudios.com/timobrien/music/soundbooth/simplesoundbooth.html

 

[marketweis]

Yep, those PVC pipe gobos are pretty slick. I must admit I'm probably a lot more of a frame of mind guy than most, so I want a recording space that makes me at least "feel" as if I'm in an actual studio environment. I can't stand having an area that has sleeping bags hanging from the rafters or mattress pads propped up against the wall. It may do the trick, but looks tacky...even if *I* am the only one seeing it. Goofy? Perhaps, but that's why I pointed out that acoustic treatment may cost you a few bucks too....IF you want something effective, in addition to looking cool in the process. If not wanting to make your own gobos like those in the post above, there are companies that sell free-standing pieces specifically designed for sound absorption, and in my opinion, are reasonably priced.

 

[docsitto]

are you happy with your computer?

I would recommend upgrading to the latest version of Pro Tools (7.4???).

What about your mic? Are you pleased with the sound of the SM7B?

Why do you need a mixer?

What are you using to get the audio to the Mac? Do you have an Mbox? Digi001?

Does the thought of a mic processor appeal to you?

The only thing I highly recommend is a good preamp. You can also add a processor, if you prefer, but a preamp for sure.

I would also suggest new cables if yours are a little old.

I am happy with my computer and mic as long as these meet industry standards?
Will upgrade the ProTools
A mixer because I want to duplicate the feel of a radio studio... be able to do cross fades, play jingles, drop-ins, etc.
I do have an early Mbox but have never hooked it up
I'd love a mic processor--any specific suggestions?
Do not understand what a pre-amp does? Is that to power the studio monitors?

Thanks for your expert advice--I am loving this thread.

doc

 

[Lee_Sackett]

A mixer because I want to duplicate the feel of a radio studio... be able to do cross fades, play jingles, drop-ins, etc.

You can use the mixer in Pro Tools to do crossfades, or you can draw volume automation for really precise fades, like you could never do on a console - unless the console has automation! Save a buck, and it's really fun once you get the hang of it. (BTW, I haven't done a crossfade ("a segue") in a radio studio in about a dozen years!)

I do have an early Mbox but have never hooked it up
...
Do not understand what a pre-amp does? Is that to power the studio monitors?
doc

The preamp amplifies your mic so that it's loud enough for your computer to record.

Another way to save a buck would be to send your Mbox to Black Lion Audio in Chicago. They will mod the preamps and the outputs of your Mbox for $175 USD. I had this done myself and am very happy with the sound of the preamps now. They don't sound like $1000 per channel preamps, but they're way above the usual entry-level interface sound - open, punchy, clean and quieter than the originals. You won't get a console for $175 that sounds as good.

 

[Emmett1057]

For a mic processor, there are tons of options at different price ranges. The DBX 286A is always a good choice and only $200! The preamp leaves a lot to be desired, but you can couple a better preamp to the processor and get a better sound.

If you just like the feel of a mixer, you could look at one of the Pro Tools control surfaces. They're pretty sweet. I really like the M-Audio ProjectMix I/O. Full automation that feels like a mixer, but also functions as an interface. In fact, you can get Pro Tools M-Powered ($250) and get away from Digidesign hardware altogether, if you like.

Emmett

 

[docsitto]

To be clear: I should get both a pre-amp and a mic processor for the microphone? How do I know what power pre-amp to get?

Also--I appreciate the ability to do segs with the pro tools and automation... but--back to the mixer--I want to be able to do a radio show on the fly with manual segs and inserts, etc. So don't I really need a mixer to accomplish that?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

To be clear: I should get both a pre-amp and a mic processor for the microphone? How do I know what power pre-amp to get?

Also--I appreciate the ability to do segs with the pro tools and automation... but--back to the mixer--I want to be able to do a radio show on the fly with manual segs and inserts, etc. So don't I really need a mixer to accomplish that?

What are the "sources" of sound you are going to combine into this radio show? Tracks from CDs? Turntables for some really old recordings? Are you going to have jingles, themes or other drop-ins? Will they live on your hard drive? Many of us gather individual .wav files on our hard drive and they 'edit' them together... kind of like putting a jigsaw puzzle together. But I think I hear you saying you want to create a show that is done when it is done. No assembly of parts after the fact.

Itemize the devices that would come through this mixer.

 

[Emmett1057]

To be clear: I should get both a pre-amp and a mic processor for the microphone? How do I know what power pre-amp to get?

It depends on exactly what you want and need. All mic processors have preamps, but some aren't great. Some are. The one in the DBX 286A is so-so. Those in the Focusrite ISA range, for instance, are very good. Maybe I've missed it, but how clean does your mic need to be. The preamp in the 286A is fine for "radio quality". You'll find it in many radio and production studios. If you're going for a cleaner sound for voiceover, you'll want something more robust. I personally use the Focusrite Voicemaster Pro and I'm very happy with it, but the preamp isn't amazing and the device is fairly high maintainance. Jeff Laurence really likes the AirCorp 500TV. Lots of people use the Symetrix 528E. There are just many, many choices out there.

Emmett

 

[OttoM]

back to the mixer--I want to be able to do a radio show on the fly with manual segs and inserts, etc. So don't I really need a mixer to accomplish that?

Sure do. In your price range - the Audioarts Air1, Broadcast Tools Promix 12 or Arrakis ARC-10 will do the job.

 

[VODood]

For a mic processor, there are tons of options at different price ranges. The DBX 286A is always a good choice and only $200! The preamp leaves a lot to be desired, but you can couple a better preamp to the processor and get a better sound.

If you just like the feel of a mixer, you could look at one of the Pro Tools control surfaces. They're pretty sweet. I really like the M-Audio ProjectMix I/O. Full automation that feels like a mixer, but also functions as an interface. In fact, you can get Pro Tools M-Powered ($250) and get away from Digidesign hardware altogether, if you like.

Emmett

Right now I'm using the dbx286 with an Avalon M5. Wasn't happy with the Symetrix 528 (old one). Not overtly happy with the 286.

We have a "spare" (not yet in use) Aircorp 500 PH here at work. Sucking up to the CE to see if I can use it.

 

[docsitto]

>>>Itemize the devices that would come through this mixer.<<<

2 mics; 2 cd players; turntable; reel to reel; cart machine (!)

>>>Audioarts Air1, Broadcast Tools Promix 12 or Arrakis ARC-10 will do the job.<<<<

I have been shopping, mostly as BSW, I like the Pro Mix for $1200.

>>>>All mic processors have preamps, but some aren't great. Some are.<<<

Since I am getting a mixer/console would the built-in pre amps do the trick?

SO many Mic Processors I am overwhelmed. If the 286A is good enough then I feel better about spending 200 bucks than the considerable higher cost of the next step. But, BSW has the next DBX (386?) bundled with a mic for $499. Is this that much better a processor?

 

[marketweis]

you're right, there are a ton of mic pre's and processors, and really a boatload of choices for virtually every piece of gear you would need. For the processor specifically, I narrowed it down to the names I kept seeing popping up on fellow vo people's gear lists or having favorable reviews, etc. Then came price as a consideration, and when I found the "b" stock dbx286a for $149, I went with that. Using it with a Shure SM7B and a Rode NT1A, and my only fault with it so far is that it requires more post production to get the sound I like....but I can still *get* that sound. A little dynamic processing and EQ in Cool Edit really beef up the sound. Conversely, a buddy has the Aphex230 and gets a really nice sound right out of the unit with really no enhancements needed, in my opinion. However, he also paid 3 X's as much as I did. I will upgrade probably within a year, and probabaly to an Aircorp, but the 286 is serving me pretty well right now.

 

[Emmett1057]

>>>Itemize the devices that would come through this mixer.<<<

2 mics; 2 cd players; turntable; reel to reel; cart machine (!)

>>>Audioarts Air1, Broadcast Tools Promix 12 or Arrakis ARC-10 will do the job.<<<<

I have been shopping, mostly as BSW, I like the Pro Mix for $1200.

>>>>All mic processors have preamps, but some aren't great. Some are.<<<

Since I am getting a mixer/console would the built-in pre amps do the trick?

SO many Mic Processors I am overwhelmed. If the 286A is good enough then I feel better about spending 200 bucks than the considerable higher cost of the next step. But, BSW has the next DBX (386?) bundled with a mic for $499. Is this that much better a processor?

The 386 isn't a mic processor...Just a preamp with digital out. I'm still unclear of exactly what you're trying to accomplish. But if "good sound" is good enough, the 286A is really hard to beat for the price. If you need "pristine sound", you'll want to spend a bit more. I know of many stations using the 286A in their air chains.

Emmett

 

[VODood]

>>>Itemize the devices that would come through this mixer.<<<

2 mics; 2 cd players; turntable; reel to reel; cart machine (!)

>>>Audioarts Air1, Broadcast Tools Promix 12 or Arrakis ARC-10 will do the job.<<<<

I have been shopping, mostly as BSW, I like the Pro Mix for $1200.

>>>>All mic processors have preamps, but some aren't great. Some are.<<<

Since I am getting a mixer/console would the built-in pre amps do the trick?

SO many Mic Processors I am overwhelmed. If the 286A is good enough then I feel better about spending 200 bucks than the considerable higher cost of the next step. But, BSW has the next DBX (386?) bundled with a mic for $499. Is this that much better a processor?

The 386 isn't a mic processor...Just a preamp with digital out. I'm still unclear of exactly what you're trying to accomplish. But if "good sound" is good enough, the 286A is really hard to beat for the price. If you need "pristine sound", you'll want to spend a bit more. I know of many stations using the 286A in their air chains.

Emmett

For that matter, if your room is quiet enough, you can just use a Mackie mixer. The pre-amps are incredible - but no gate for extraneous noise.

I prefer the Mackie preamp to the 286 and 528. But for ease of use the 528/Avalon combo... or the dbx, depending on how I feel that day.

Mackie pre-amp and 416 shotgun - it's all John Wells uses. It's what Chuck Riley used as well (utilizing a booth for the mic). But Wells? You'll hear birds way off in the distance if his window is open. Hilarious.