Heritage Calls

[fred flintstone]

Re: What If...

On a side note to this side note, one can only imagine what would have happened had Storer been able to operate and market Channel 12 as WIBG-TV before throwing in the towel. This would have been right around the point where WIBG radio was about to EXPLODE in popularity, and "Wibbage TV" despite the inferior signal would have probably been able to overcome this simply because it was on VHF. (Weak VHF signals were watched more than solid UHF ones, as this would have been prior to the impact of All-Channel Legislation.) Perhaps the two stations could have been sold in combination, and cross-promoted. Of course, we'll never know.

George Storer was a member of the CBS board of directors. He was able to use that to get CBS affiliations for his TV stations in Clevleand and Detroit. He might have gotten the CBS affiliation away from The Evening Bulletin station, WCAU-TV, for WVUE, as well. In that case, CBS might not have bought the WCAU stations a short time later and might have hung on to the WTOP stations in Washington. The Philadelphia area would have four commercial VHF stations. With three networks once Dumont went under, one station would have ended up an independent. But other major market independents (WNEW-TV, WGN-TV, KTLA, KTVU) flourished as indies with strong local programming plus movies and sports. The Evening Bulletin might have hung on to the WCAU stations and with cash coming in from broadcast operations, The Evening Bulletin might not have folded. Or the Bulletin might have wanted out and sold to somebody else: RKO-General (the FCC later forced the company to sell all its stations because of alleged corporate midconduct*), Hearst, Taft (later owner of channel 29), Metromedia (then owner of WIP and indies WNEW-TV and WTTG).

Storer's other TV stations ultimately ended up as Fox owned and operated stations. Maybe channel 12 would have, too.

_________________________________________________
*One of the charges against RKO General's parent company was bribery of foreign officials. However no connection to any improper transactions and a large number of overseas phone calls made by an employee of RKO General's Memphis station was never shown. :

 

[qtpieislit]

Very nice George B. Very insightful, completely thorough, extremely well articulated, and entirely accurate, as are all your posts. This type of chronological capacity rings all so clear as the qualifying measure of an orator and inside radio show host. And I know you bring a lot more to the table than that.
[EDIT].

[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[fred flintstone]

Very nice George B. Very insightful, completely thorough, extremely well articulated, and entirely accurate, as are all your posts. This type of chronological capacity rings all so clear as the qualifying measure of an orator and inside radio show host. And I know you bring a lot more to the table than that.
[EDIT]
[EDIT-inflammatory]

:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
An example of the mutual flattery and suck up fest that occurs among a small circle every Friday night, and of the kind of attacks they make on those who do not play their little game or dare to criticize them.

Some people make a name for themselves. A few live off the accomplishments and reputation of a parent. It's nice that someone in your family had a satisfying career in his own right.

Most local "radio brats" have created careers and lives for themselves apart from radio and we know little or nothing about them. Others, who work in radio and related fields, have made careers apart from their parents' names: Gene Crane's kid produced Friends. Jim O'Brian's kid starred in Frasier. Joe Bonaduce's kid got past some rought spots and does major market radio and some TV. None of them seemed to find it necessary to go through life on daddy's coat-tails.

[EDIT]

BTW: Does your knowledge of radio extend to any station where your father did not work, to any company for which he did not work, to any market in which he did not work and to any time period except when he worked there?

[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[Radiodeity]

Re: What If...

*One of the charges against RKO General's parent company (General Tire and Rubber Co.) was bribery of foreign officials. However no connection to any improper transactions and a large number of overseas phone calls made by an employee of RKO General's Memphis station was never shown. :

The whole brew-ha-ha began when the Boston TV station went to renew the license and someone else wanted it - they used the foreign pay-off argument to try to show RKO wasn't fit to hold a license. But that's the way they do business "over there". Which kind of burns my ass since GE and Westinghouse were doing the same thing to get foreign contracts but their station licenses were never questioned... ???

And I'd still be working for RKO.... :-\

 

[AdamfromPhilly]

ahh-I love this discussion...only it would be better if it was on the topic I started..

 

[fred flintstone]

ahh-I love this discussion...only it would be better if it was on the topic I started..

Threads flow and evolve. People focus on a specific point (like WHYY) and the thread takes a different direction. It's the nature of conversation.

Make a comment or ask a question. You have as much to say about the direction a thread takes as anybody else.
BTW: I asked you a question about your original post back on page one. Never heard back.

 

[BRUSSTAR]

An example of the mutual flattery and suck up fest that occurs among a small circle every Friday night

Mutual? I just got home from work and haven't even acknowledged Sam's post yet.

Sam, thank you for your kind words. I really do appreciate them.

There, now the flattery and suck up fest is "mutual".

To answer the original question about "heritage call letters":

I would not set arbitrary points in radio history (like the NARBA frequency re-allocations of 1941, or the simulcast splits of 1966) as the barometers for "heritage". To me, a heritage callsign is one that is so well-established (as a brand) among the listeners in a given market that even without promotion, the average audience member knows exactly what to expect from the entity in question.

Mention WMMR, and anyone in the Delaware Valley knows you're talking about a rock station. The "WXTU" letters are associated with country. KYW's callsign, despite being associated with an MOR music station for a few months in 1965, are closely associated with all news. And so forth...

In contrast, mention "WISX" (which only this week I learned was the new callsign assumed by Clear Channel for the old WJJZ) or "WRDW" to the average person (i.e. not a radio geek) and they'll have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

To me, THAT is the defining difference between "heritage" callsigns and meaningless ones.

 

[BRUSSTAR]

Correcting Misinformation

Flintstone says:

KYW acquired channel 3 in 1954 and used the KYW-TV calls in Philadelphia prior to the move to Cleveland.

Not so. The calls were still WPTZ-TV at the time the station was "moved" to Cleveland. "KYW-TV" never existed until Channel 3 in Cleveland became Westinghouse property in 1956. And "KYW-TV" never existed in Philadelphia until 1965.

Furthermore, Philco's connections with Philadelphia's Channel 3 go back to 1932 when the station was experimental W3XE. 1941 was when the Philco experimental license was converted to a commercial one, under the WPTZ-TV calls. At the time, there was very little change in programming though, as Philco was unable and/or uninterested in selling a single commercial for some time after the license had been changed. The first paying client involved college football, I believe, in 1942 after the War had begun and the station was running limited airtime.

As always, I welcome corrections from those who may have them...

 

[AdamfromPhilly]

ahh-I love this discussion...only it would be better if it was on the topic I started..

Threads flow and evolve. People focus on a specific point (like WHYY) and the thread takes a different direction. It's the nature of conversation.

Make a comment or ask a question. You have as much to say about the direction a thread takes as anybody else.
BTW: I asked you a question about your original post back on page one. Never heard back.

Mr Flintstone, I didn't see any question directed to me. Please let me know. I think you took my comment as a negative, I was just mentioning how these threads are often evolve into other things. I actually enjoy reading what everyone has to say.

 

[fred flintstone]

I had asked what your standard was for designating the stations you mentioned in the original post as "heritage."

The word "heritage" means: Something that is inherited. Legacy. Tradition. It has connotations of being something with historic significance. A brand identity of name recognition is not a bad thing (it certainly helps with diary keepers) but an established brand name is not that same an an historic station. But few in broadcasting have any sense of or appreciation of history.

Broadcasters are also addicted to hype and promotion, and in hyping themselves are prone to over use and misuse words to the point they become meaningless. Unless "heritage" has a specific, defined and historically-based meaning, the word means nothing (sort of like a station calling itself, for example, "Delaware's Only News Station.") I am reminded of a sign in a comedy movie which said something like "a tradition of service since 2005."

KYW's "heritage" goes beyond its current format (which represents about half the total history of those call letters): First building designed for radio (the current Temple Center City building). First station to break the bombing of Pearl Harbor. First opera broadcast. First regular schedule of hourly (and half-hourly) newscasts. Thirty years of old time radio dramas, sitcoms, and variety shows.

Brand identities can vary: Some may think rock station when they hear WMMR. I say progressive rock or "underground" station (Samsome Street, The Drummer, tie-died, joints). Then they sold out. Besides the WMMR calls (Metromedia Radio) are now obsolete. Emmis didn't keep the WNBC calls when they acquired 660 AM. Of course, for that station, the designation "heritage" would more aptly apply to WEAF.

Call letters are not the same as brand identity any more. Many stations use nicknames or slogans as their "brand names," not call letters. Of course, those usually don't remain in use long enough to be called "heritage."

 

[amfmsw]

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this lovefest, boys and girls, but: a real question. Do I have this story correct?

Philco sold WPTZ-TV3 to NBC in 1955 and it became WRCV-TV (RCaVictor). NBC/RCA sold the TV station to Westinghouse in 1965. Did 1060AM also get sold in 1955 and change it's calls to WRCV? What were the 1060 calls before?

 

[fred flintstone]

Did 1060AM also get sold in 1955 and change it's calls to WRCV? What were the 1060 calls before?

Yes. KYW.

Prior to March, 1941, KYW had operated on 1020 Khz.
Prior to 1933, KYW had operated from Chicago on 1020 Khz.
WRAX, Philadelphia was a daytimer operating on 1020 (with KYW the dominant station on the frequency).
The FCC moved the 1020 clear channel allocation from the Midwest to the East. Westinghouse applied for permission to take-over WRAX and move KYW to Philly to keep its clear channel standing on 1020.
The WRAX calls are now used by an FM station in Birmingham, Alabama.
Wiith Havana Treaty frequency allocations in 1941, KYW moved to 1060; Westinghouse's KDKA, Pittsburgh moved from 980 to 1020.

Here is the Philly radio line-up before the North American Radio Broadcasting Agreement:

560 WFIL (From a merger of WFI and WLIT which had been sharing time on 560)
610 WIP
830 WEEU, Reading
960 WIBG, Glenside
1120 WDEL, Wilmington
1170 WCAU
1280 WCAM, Camden/WTNJ, Trenton (Shared time)
1310 WHAT/WTEL (Shared time)
1370 WDAS
1370 WRAM, Wilmington
1420 WILM, Wilmington
1500 WPEN

Most stations changed frequencies a few times between 1923 and 1941. In 1923, the Commerce Department (which then regulated radio broadcasting) began moving stations from 360 meters (833Khtz). Originally all stations shared time on that frequency. Some shared time arrangements continued into the 60s.

 

[Beejus]

960 WIBG, Glenside

Hey! My hometown! I didn't know we had a station liscenced to us for a while. Of course there's been WDRE/WPHI/WPPZ for Jenkintown... but cool! Even though WIBG- Glenside was WAY before my time.

 

[radioskeptic]

Don't forget that 103.9 in Jenkintown was originally WIBF, broadcasting from the Benson East.

It took its call from the names of the owners: the Fox Brothers (Isador and Benjamin, I think). Former U.S. Rep. Jon Fox (R-Pa.) is the son of one and the nephew of the other.

Channel 29 was originally WIBF-TV, too.

 

[radioskeptic]

Of course, the Fox brothers had no connection with Rupert Murdoch'a Fox Broadcasting. The current fox bought the station from Taft. Does anyone out there know whether the Fox brothers sold it to Taft, or if there had been another intermediate owner?

 

[ixnay]

fred, I always thought "WFIL" was a phonetic pun on "FILadelphia".

Also, how did shared time arrangements work? Did one station serve as a daytimer and its frequency sharer as a nighttimer? And how was it determined who got which daypart? Coin flip?

ixnay

 

[ixnay]

Why geographically separate root calls?

I'm pretty sure Storer was the last to own the station, and not the first. I don't see how Channel 12 could ever have been WIBG-TV, as Commission rules at the time would have prohibited two stations from having had the same root callsign with different cities of license

I've never seen the logic behind repealing that quaint regulation. Other than the deregulation mania of the '80s. I mean, wtf is a "KCBS[-TV]" doing anywhere other than San Francisco? (Here I would insert a "shocked" smiley, but R-I doesn't have one.)

I wonder what would have happened if the Havana Treaty had assigned calls to certain frequencies in certain cities and kept them there for eternity? For one thing, "KYW" would have stayed in Philly all my life instead of being in Cleveland when I was born 45 years ago.

It's been mentioned before IIRC on R-I but WPTZ now graces Channel 5 (Hearst-owned NBC affil.) in Plattsburgh, NY.

When Philly's Ch. 3 used it, did "WRCV" have "-TV" after it? And is "WRCV" in use nowadays somewhere?

ixnay

 

[ixnay]

WPBS LIVES!!!!!!

In Atlanta, gracing "Praise 1040", and in Watertown, NY on a PBS station.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPBS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPBS-TV

I vaguely remember hearing the Bulletin-owned 98.9 WPBS (as a 7-8 year old with my recently divorced mom) in its B/EZ format. This would be around 1969. It eventually morphed into WUSL Power 99.

I wanted to start a new thread on WPBS but it fits in this thread, thanks to it's digression.

ixnay

 

[fred flintstone]

fred, I always thought "WFIL" was a phonetic pun on "FILadelphia".

Also, how did shared time arrangements work? Did one station serve as a daytimer and its frequency sharer as a nighttimer? And how was it determined who got which daypart? Coin flip?

ixnay

Lucky, it turned out that way.
WFI was owned by Stawbridge and Clothier.
WLIT by Lit Brothers.

Shared time arrangements varied. Early on, there were often more than two stations sharing a frequency. Each licensee would get a block of time, as infrequently as once a week. By the 30s and 40s, shared time station-pairs would most often alternate four hour blocks of time. If a network affiliation was involved, often both licensees would carry network programming (as well as local shows).

The WFI-WLIT time share was brief and the two stations merged in 1922.

In Chicago, NBC (later ABC) owned WENR and shared time with WLS, owned by Prairie Farmer magazine. Both stations were listed on the NBC Blue (later ABC) rate cards. WLS, when they had the frequency took some NBC/ABC programming and even fed its National Barn Dance to the Blue Network. WLS ran more local programming (much of it farm programming) and had a stronger brand image in Chicago and the Midwest. ABC brought out Prairie Farmer's interest in 1959, kept the WLS calls, dropped most of the farm shows, and flipped to Top 40 in 1959.

In Dallas and Fort-Worth, the Dallas Morning News' WFAA and the Fort Worth Star Telegram's WBAP both shared time on two frequencies: 570 (a regional allocation) and 840 (a clear channel frequency). 570 was an NBC Blue/ABC affiliate; 840 carried NBC (Red) programming. The two licensees shifted back and forth, alternating with each other on each frequency. That arrangement continued into the 60s (at least, maybe longer).

All this sounds strange now, but in the 20s the only precedent available to set up radio broadcasting was two-way radio communication. Everybody used the same frequency and operators were supposed to share. It made sense then that individual licensees would also share broadcast frequencies. Nobody had thought of buying ad time yet. So a department store, or newspaper or radio manufacturer or church would get a license to go on a few times a week - even once a week - to promote their own product or organization. In the early years, frequencies still had to go silent for a few minutes each hour to listen for emergency or distress calls. In some towns, all broadcasters would all agree to go silent at times so listeners could DX. It was AT&T, which charged people to talk over its phone system, which came up with the idea of charging people to talk over the radio. Stations bought out others with which they shared a frequency and started charging clients for air time. And now you know..... the rest of the story.

 

[amfmsw]

WPBS (the Philadelphia Bulletin Station...now WUSL) was originally on 107.7. It did a frequency swap with ca$h for 98.9, WSNJ Bridgeton. See, the WPST move is nothing new.