Hey guess what? KMOX is now in HD!

[ElCheapo]

http://kmox.com/pages/44721.php

 

[700WLW]

http://kmox.com/pages/44721.php

Hey, guess what - WGN and WZZN are now off the IBOC list:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....gst&q=iboc+turned+off&rnum=4#87e056625bd507c2

 

[hipporadio]

Hey guess what? KMOX shuts off its Harris DexStar at sunset in St Louie... And you’d be amazed how much the analog audio from that beautiful Harris DX-50 improves when the IBOC “shackles” come off! So, does that mean this huge full-time clear-channel station effectively becomes a "digital DAYTIMER"? Last check--no nighttime IBOC allowed... Future check--they better not allow it!

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Last check--no nighttime IBOC allowed... Future check--they better not allow it!

On the contrary, they had better allow it...the sooner the better, so that everyone can witness the destruction of the AM band's usefulness at night, including those who thought that HDRadio on AM was going to be AM's salvation. Let's get it over with NOW.

 

[Len14043]

AM hybrid IBOC should should not be allowed at night

I am generally a supporter of IBOC, but I don't believe it should be allowed at night in the hybrid mode for AM. The system seems to work as intended for FM and daytime AM. However, I think it will be useless at night. Here in Cincinnati, WSAI (1360) left their IBOC on for the past few nights. I was in an area where their nighttime signal is about 100 mv/m and about 3 miles from their tower. Despite the signal strenght, the station switched from analog to digital due to the distant stations oblitering the digital sidebands on 1350 and 1370. I think AM IBOC at night should only be allowed in the all digital mode. Based on my experience with WSAI, I believe nighttime hybrid IBOC will work for powerful stations like WLW, but will be useless for graveyard stations.

 

[700WLW]

Re: AM hybrid IBOC should should not be allowed at night

I am generally a supporter of IBOC, but I don't believe it should be allowed at night in the hybrid mode for AM. The system seems to work as intended for FM and daytime AM. However, I think it will be useless at night. Here in Cincinnati, WSAI (1360) left their IBOC on for the past few nights. I was in an area where their nighttime signal is about 100 mv/m and about 3 miles from their tower. Despite the signal strenght, the station switched from analog to digital due to the distant stations oblitering the digital sidebands on 1350 and 1370. I think AM IBOC at night should only be allowed in the all digital mode. Based on my experience with WSAI, I believe nighttime hybrid IBOC will work for powerful stations like WLW, but will be useless for graveyard stations.

Outrageous !

 

[hipporadio]

Re: AM hybrid IBOC should should not be allowed at night

I am generally a supporter of IBOC, but I don't believe it should be allowed at night in the hybrid mode for AM. The system seems to work as intended for FM and daytime AM. However, I think it will be useless at night. Here in Cincinnati, WSAI (1360) left their IBOC on for the past few nights. I was in an area where their nighttime signal is about 100 mv/m and about 3 miles from their tower. Despite the signal strenght, the station switched from analog to digital due to the distant stations oblitering the digital sidebands on 1350 and 1370. I think AM IBOC at night should only be allowed in the all digital mode. Based on my experience with WSAI, I believe nighttime hybrid IBOC will work for powerful stations like WLW, but will be useless for graveyard stations.

Len... First let me say "good post", then let me tell you that your observations are correct. I am familiar with 1360 WSAI Cincy. CC's deployment of IBOC there is a joke!

So, let me surmize that IBOC should not be authorized on "clears" because of the interference poteintial (and IT SHOULDN'T)... HD radio is ineffective on nearly all Class C (formerly Class 3 "regional channels") because of existing co-channel and adjacent-channel "graveyard" interference. So, I guess the same is even MORE true on the Class D 1kw-U "local" channels on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490. So WHAT is left that is "workable" on the AM band for IBOC?

NOTHING...

 

[700WLW]

Re: AM hybrid IBOC should should not be allowed at night

.. I think AM IBOC at night should only be allowed in the all digital mode. Based on my experience with WSAI, I believe nighttime hybrid IBOC will work for powerful stations like WLW, but will be useless for graveyard stations.

Well Lenny, what do you propose - antiquating 1 billion analog AM/FM radios, filling the air-waves with IBUZZ, and giving just the clear channels IBUZZ, so they can obliterate the graveyard stations ! Maybe, you should apply for a postion with the HD Radio Cartel, if you already don't work for them !

 

[Len14043]

Hipporadio WROTE: "So, let me surmize that IBOC should not be authorized on "clears" because of the interference poteintial (and IT SHOULDN'T)... HD radio is ineffective on nearly all Class C (formerly Class 3 "regional channels") because of existing co-channel and adjacent-channel "graveyard" interference. So, I guess the same is even MORE true on the Class D 1kw-U "local" channels on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490. So WHAT is left that is "workable" on the AM band for IBOC?"

I said IBOC should not be allowed on AM at night in the hybrid mode. After having an HD radio for about 2 months, I came to the conclusion that it is workable on FM and daytime AM. Obviously, the all-digital mode would be much better because the digital signal would be in the center of it's own channel and would be authorized to use higher power levels. Again, I believe IBOC should be allowed at night only in the all-digital mode, and thats for all AM stations.

 

[700WLW]

Hipporadio WROTE: "So, let me surmize that IBOC should not be authorized on "clears" because of the interference poteintial (and IT SHOULDN'T)... HD radio is ineffective on nearly all Class C (formerly Class 3 "regional channels") because of existing co-channel and adjacent-channel "graveyard" interference. So, I guess the same is even MORE true on the Class D 1kw-U "local" channels on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490. So WHAT is left that is "workable" on the AM band for IBOC?"

I said IBOC should not be allowed on AM at night in the hybrid mode. After having an HD radio for about 2 months, I came to the conclusion that it is workable on FM and daytime AM. Obviously, the all-digital mode would be much better because the digital signal would be in the center of it's own channel and would be authorized to use higher power levels. Again, I believe IBOC should be allowed at night only in the all-digital mode, and thats for all AM stations.

I know what you said - allowing IBOC, at any time, is highly-destructive to the broadcast bands. Digital radio is not buying terrestrial radio anything - the market is already saturated with 13,500 stations, so adding HD channels is just over-kill. The all-digital mode will not happen anytime soon, or at all, or maybe in 50 years, if this defective technology ever takes hold, but it never will - good thing, it doesn't matter what you think !

 

[hipporadio]

Speaking of the "mighty MOX"...

I had the opportunity to hear them very clearly between 7-8AM EST this morning. The band was "open" much later than usual today, and KMOX was rolling in strongly past local sunrise. They were airing well-recorded patriotic hymns performed by a choir and orchestra. I was listening on a CCRadio detuned to 1122khz so as to "virtually" increase the audio bandwidth. The signal and audio quality were exceptional.

At 7:45AM EST (6:45AM St Louis sun-up) I clearly detected the beginning of KMOX's daytime IBOC transmission without even retuning the radio. High-frequency "hash" (although well below the program audio) appeared and the fidelity decrease was apparent. Tuning 10-15khz above carrier revealed the infamous IBOC "buzz"--faint but clearly audible under a distant station on 1130, so KMOX indeed has switched to HD mode.

As intolerable as the adjacent-channel interference issue may be, I cannot understand why any operator with exemplary transmission equipment and audio quality would purposely diminish such to reach so very small an audience listening on the nearly unavailable HD radios. The numbers just don’t jive... And the tradeoff isn’t justified.

 

[Len14043]

700WLW Wrote: "I know what you said - allowing IBOC, at any time, is highly-destructive to the broadcast bands. Digital radio is not buying terrestrial radio anything - the market is already saturated with 13,500 stations, so adding HD channels is just over-kill. The all-digital mode will not happen anytime soon, or at all, or maybe in 50 years, if this defective technology ever takes hold, but it never will - good thing, it doesn't matter what you think !"

I generally make it a point to not respond to your posts. I don't care what name you happen to be using at the time, i.e. SayNoToIBOC, PLL or whatever. That is why I began my post with: "Hipporadio WROTE:", meaning I replying to his post and not to your post! Please do not reply to my posts. But knowing you, I'm sure you will.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Hipporadio WROTE: "So, let me surmize that IBOC should not be authorized on "clears" because of the interference poteintial (and IT SHOULDN'T)... HD radio is ineffective on nearly all Class C (formerly Class 3 "regional channels") because of existing co-channel and adjacent-channel "graveyard" interference. So, I guess the same is even MORE true on the Class D 1kw-U "local" channels on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490. So WHAT is left that is "workable" on the AM band for IBOC?"

I said IBOC should not be allowed on AM at night in the hybrid mode. After having an HD radio for about 2 months, I came to the conclusion that it is workable on FM and daytime AM. Obviously, the all-digital mode would be much better because the digital signal would be in the center of it's own channel and would be authorized to use higher power levels. Again, I believe IBOC should be allowed at night only in the all-digital mode, and thats for all AM stations.

How so?
The FM HD still jams current channel assignments, by creating substantial amounts of new digital hissing and buzzing interference, as well as degrades the signal to noise of the analog stereo signal of the host station.
In the proposed HD full digital mode the total bandwidth used is not reduced from the hybrid mode for AM or FM, and full power digital hissing and buzzing would be much worse then the current, lower powered, analog hybrid situation.
Digital bits easily get scrambled by the invasion of someone elses digital bits from an interfering station. No immunity with digital, unlike the substancial interference reduction of the "capture ratio" or "capture effect" of regular FM.

capture effect: A phenomenon, associated with FM reception, in which only the stronger of two signals at or near the same frequency will be demodulated. Note 1: The complete suppression of the weaker signal occurs at the receiver limiter, where it is treated as noise and rejected. Note 2: When both signals are nearly equal in strength, or are fading independently, the receiver may switch from one to the other.

Link:
http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_fm_capture_ratio.html
Only in the rare case where in a small, overlapping, equal signal zone, do 2 or more FM signals, equal in strength, actually cause a problem. Even then, it is only switching from one FM station to the other. So one or the other FM station in an interference area are received. Not both scrambled.
Not so with digital HD.

 

[700WLW]

700WLW Wrote: "I know what you said - allowing IBOC, at any time, is highly-destructive to the broadcast bands. Digital radio is not buying terrestrial radio anything - the market is already saturated with 13,500 stations, so adding HD channels is just over-kill. The all-digital mode will not happen anytime soon, or at all, or maybe in 50 years, if this defective technology ever takes hold, but it never will - good thing, it doesn't matter what you think !"

I generally make it a point to not respond to your posts. I don't care what name you happen to be using at the time, i.e. SayNoToIBOC, PLL or whatever. That is why I began my post with: "Hipporadio WROTE:", meaning I replying to his post and not to your post! Please do not reply to my posts. But knowing you, I'm sure you will.

Good for you, Lenny - I am proud of you !