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High-Maitenence Morning Team needs to hear the

J

johnny05

Guest
Alright... I'm stuck...

We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed instead of the "Air Feed"??

The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any suggestions?<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by HOW THE HECK??? on 12/22/05 03:31 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?
>

Assuming all your processing is at the TX shack, you can always STL the final signal pre-HDTX back to the station. I'm sure there is a simplar way to do this, but its late, and I'm tired - ha.
<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?
>
Is there a way to tap off your reverb and route that to a seperate processor which feeds their monitor? If so, then you can provide talent with a specialized proceessed and reverb feed.

You have numerous options available.

-Frank Foti
 
> > Alright... I'm stuck...
> >
> > We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> > delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> > listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
>
> > the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> > instead of the "Air Feed"??
> >
> > The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> > suggestions?
> >
>
> Assuming all your processing is at the TX shack, you can
> always STL the final signal pre-HDTX back to the station.
> I'm sure there is a simplar way to do this, but its late,
> and I'm tired - ha.
>

If you are running a digital STL with AES/EBU and your exciter has AES/EBU inputs, you can have your audio processor (Optimod?) at the studio by plugging it's AES/EBU digital out directly into the STL. The stereo MUX in a digital format will make it all the way to your digital input exciter and give you the ability to pull audio off the back of the aux outputs of the processor sitting now at the studio, therefore giving you pre-delayed audio that sounds like off-air for the crybabies.

For the next trick, if you do many remotes, here's a solution so "talent" can have a non-delayed IFB/monitor. Just use the 67KHz SCA channel. You can use a Modulation Sciences Sidekick to generate it and radios from radiosca.com for 35 bucks to decode it at the remote. It's far from pristine audio, however, it will work fine for cues and monitoring on remotes.

Good luck with all the digital fun and games. Isn't IBOC just grand?

<P ID="signature">______________
--- THE Insultant ---</P>
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?
>

Getting a second analog chain and feeding that to the talent's ears is best. This also lets you set the talent processing as they want it, so you can keep (or tweak) your main chain how it should be w/o the moaning. Z-100 did this when I visited in the late 1990's and many NYC stations running HD use an older processor for the talent phones (like an analog CRL, or an old pair of Prisms with an Orban 424A).

Inovonics actually markets one of their old analog boxes for this purpose and I hear it more than does the trick.

http://www.inovon.com/content/products.cfm?pageID=2&catID=1&prodID=42
 
When you do an IFB through the STL, put a blank box in the studio with some wires/knobs and label it "Quantum Time Shift IBOC". Label the knob for whatever the delay is. Tell them Einstein came to you in a dream, explained special relativity, and that they're actually listening to the air signal...but the special box shifts the delay back.

Morning show people would believe it.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?
>


Use a low cost or second hand audio processor just to feed the headphones. To me it is overkill but several of our own processors have ended up being used for that very purpose.
We now have a stock of second hand 8100's, 8200's omnia 3's and the like should you need something.
Best regards
Scott
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?
>
Put an old 8100 in the studio and tell them to suck it up.
Cut them down a notch or two while your at it. (-:
 
Awwww...come on, Frank!

We all know you're just waiting for NAB to introduce your
new negative-going delay box!

Rumor says you're just hung up waiting for licensing on
Microsoft's time-travel patent!!!
<P ID="signature">______________
Misanthropy:

The only religion that truly comes from within!</P>
 
Methinks one who calls air talent 'crybabies' don't have much of an inkling about what it takes to be effective on the air. I spent 20 years as a chief engineer and swing air talent. The jocks have a valid point, especially the ones who are pro enough to know how to work the processing and effects to get a tight show. If I were still in the business, I'd be right there with the air staff bitchin' about the delay, and trying to fix it so the monitors sounded as close to the air sound as possible. Digital is also going to put a huge damper on live broadcasts at events such as festivals and such unless good predelay audio can be backhauled to the site for the PA system.

Yet another blow to creative radio...but then the bean counters don't care anymore, even about having more than mediocre air staff, which is why I'm no longer in the biz.

And one has to wonder what good is digital processing when it gets sent to a car stereo in some dude's car who has it cranked up to 20% distortion anyway?

/end of rant
/Merry Christmas
<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
> Alright... I'm stuck...
>
> We just installed an HD Transmitter.... Now.... With the
> delay, our morning show, and all personalities have to
> listen in "Pre-Delay". Is there any way that they can here
> the reverb and other processing on the "Pre-delay" feed
> instead of the "Air Feed"??
>
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?

Yeah, it's simple: dump the IB(A)C!

Merry Christmas :-D<P ID="signature">______________
"Once a week, recovering illusionist Roy Horn reportedly visits Montecore, the tiger that mauled him. Though disturbingly, they’re conjugal visits!" -- Horatio Sanz
http://theradioblog.blogspot.com</P>
 
> The morning show is moaning big time about this.... Any
> suggestions?

Tell them to "qwicher-bichen".

We're in the digital age now.
 
Re: Awwww...come on, Frank!

> We all know you're just waiting for NAB to introduce your
> new negative-going delay box!

Hmmm...That's it, an inverting time-machine.

> Rumor says you're just hung up waiting for licensing on
> Microsoft's time-travel patent!!!
>
I'm actually a Mac fan!

Rumor also has it, that I wish all of you a Merry Christmas, and the very best in whatever faith, creed, or tradition you observe!

(Nope, I'm not politicaly correct!)

-Frank Foti
 
Re: Awwww...come on, Frank!

MERRY CHRISTMAS Frank! May your boxes be merry and bright!

A christmas wish: May everyone who has access to an audio processor, regardless of brand, lose their tin ears and set it up right! And may IBOC die a horrible, painful death! Amen.

I'm proudly politically incorrect, but at least I can hear...

-A

> > We all know you're just waiting for NAB to introduce your
> > new negative-going delay box!
>
> Hmmm...That's it, an inverting time-machine.
>
> > Rumor says you're just hung up waiting for licensing on
> > Microsoft's time-travel patent!!!
> >
> I'm actually a Mac fan!
>
> Rumor also has it, that I wish all of you a Merry Christmas,
> and the very best in whatever faith, creed, or tradition you
> observe!
>
> (Nope, I'm not politicaly correct!)
>
> -Frank Foti
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>
 
> When you do an IFB through the STL, put a blank box in the
> studio with some wires/knobs and label it "Quantum Time
> Shift IBOC". Label the knob for whatever the delay is.
> Tell them Einstein came to you in a dream, explained special
> relativity, and that they're actually listening to the air
> signal...but the special box shifts the delay back.
>
> Morning show people would believe it.
>

I want to try that now.

Mind you, I'm sure the "old radio dog" of a PD wouldn't fall for it, but the cohosts might...<P ID="signature">______________
narniabanner.jpg
</P>
 
> I want to try that now.
>
> Mind you, I'm sure the "old radio dog" of a PD wouldn't fall
> for it, but the cohosts might...

Works best for clients. I put a completely dead Telos unit in the rack and told someone it was the required decency monitor from the FCC as put into law from Janet's boob. The voice recognition will pick out the curse words. The TV units have a visual object discrepancy differential engine so it can tell the difference between a toe and the other thing.

I weep for the future.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Into the future!

It's important to know how you sound on the air, especially when your PD wants your voice up against the music at all times. (So you can barely hear yourself) :)

I wouldn't be surprised if future processors include some sort of "pre-delay studio out", which can be fed from the engineer rack, back to the studio.



> Methinks one who calls air talent 'crybabies' don't have
> much of an inkling about what it takes to be effective on
> the air. I spent 20 years as a chief engineer and swing air
> talent. The jocks have a valid point, especially the ones
> who are pro enough to know how to work the processing and
> effects to get a tight show. If I were still in the
> business, I'd be right there with the air staff bitchin'
> about the delay, and trying to fix it so the monitors
> sounded as close to the air sound as possible. Digital is
> also going to put a huge damper on live broadcasts at events
> such as festivals and such unless good predelay audio can be
> backhauled to the site for the PA system.
>
> Yet another blow to creative radio...but then the bean
> counters don't care anymore, even about having more than
> mediocre air staff, which is why I'm no longer in the biz.
>
> And one has to wonder what good is digital processing when
> it gets sent to a car stereo in some dude's car who has it
> cranked up to 20% distortion anyway?
>
> /end of rant
> /Merry Christmas
>
 
Re: Into the future!

> I wouldn't be surprised if future processors include some
> sort of "pre-delay studio out", which can be fed from the
> engineer rack, back to the studio.

Most do already.
 
Re: Into the future!

> > I wouldn't be surprised if future processors include some
> > sort of "pre-delay studio out", which can be fed from the
> > engineer rack, back to the studio.
>
> Most do already.
>

Do they actually sound like the air chain does off-air?

<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
Re: Into the future!

> It's important to know how you sound on the air, especially
> when your PD wants your voice up against the music at all
> times. (So you can barely hear yourself) :)

Or, with skill and practice, you can get the same results with PGM bus audio. If the mix is right pre-processor, it will be right post-processor.
 
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