Higher power part15 AM and FM

[radio8z]

Hello all,

There have be posts here and other boards concerning the FCC through licensure or other means permitting higher powers and ranges than currently allowed by Part 15 rules for AM and FM operations.

Suppose, for a moment, that unlicensed broadcasters on FM are permitted to use 10 watt transmitters. John goes on the air on a certain frequency and Jill goes on the air on the same frequency and interference is now a problem. Who has the right to use the frequency?

Now, we need some governing authority to cooridinate the frequencies. OK, John agrees to move frequency but now he is interfering with Charlton who was there first.

Suppose the FCC says you have to self regulate and coordinate frequencies. You must establish area coordination and the FCC will enforce frequecy allocations made by the volunteer groups.

What is the result? Ask any amateur radio operator who has tried in the last 25 years to obtain a 2 meter repeater coordination from the state amateur radio repeater coordination group. The frequencies were gobbled up by large ham clubs before anyone else could apply! I am not making this up since I have first hand knowledge of this. In my area, there are no coordinated frequencies available and none have been availble for the past 25 years. This is a result of but not the fault of "volunteer" coordination. The simple truth is that once the frequencies are assigned, there are none left.

Many have complained about the lack of clear frequencies in their area because the "evil" commercial broadcasters with all the money own the FCC. The same thing has happened (without the money) to amateur radio. The same thing will happen if "community broadcasters" get any clout from the FCC or try to self regulate. Who is going to mediate disputes and on what authority? Who would you allow to determine if or how you want to "community broadcast"?

If, as I, you enjoy learning about the technology and listening to your own programming in your yard via your part15 unit then I suggest you let the current rules be what they are and work within them. Licensing or coordination will only bring you grief and food fights.


Neil

 

[Desert_Ear]

Neil,

Can't get a new repeater allocation? I'm guessing you live in a big city with a large population. It's up to the geography/terrain. I'm a HAM radio operator and, in the southwest desert, we have plenty of room for repeaters. We can install a new one any day of the week.

And, how about this: presently, there are at least two TV channel 41 translators plus one channel 41 LPTV station, all within 75 miles of each other!
Two of them are within 30 miles of each other.


We have room for LPFM, higher power Part 15, too, with no chance of interference to anybody. However, the FCC is not moving on any of it. Care to guess why? Maybe NAB and NPR lobbyists?

DE

 

[Russty]

I never understood the purpose of LPFM. The FCC designated 100 watt LPFMs and 10 Watt LPFMs. There hasn't been any opening to apply for LPFM 10's, only LPFM 100's. Now why would it make sense to apply for a 100 watt LPFM which must be limited to 100 Watts, Must be Non-Commercial, Must accept any interference from higher class FM services, and are not protected against when other stations move or new higher class FMs come on the air. LPFMs also must abide by all the same rules as the big stations including EAS and everything else. Why go for that when you can simply apply for a Class A which is a minimum of 100 Watts anyway. From there you can possibly go up. You are also protected better against others moves. Especially in the Dessert, or other areas with little population. Why go with an LPFM when you can go for a full class A?

On the subject of self regulation and or all the freqs getting gobbled up, what they do in England for the low power am licenses, they are good for three years, after which you must re-apply. They are temporary licenses allowing others the opportunity to get their chance at broadcasting for a few years.

I agree that Part 15 should be kept at how it is. We are lucky to have what we have. If you want to play radio and you live in an area with lots of open allocations, go for one of them. For most of us in the US though, this is not the case. That is why Internet webcasting is catching on. Just wait till Long Range Broadband Wireless kicks in on a grand scale. Anyone could be a broadcaster at that point.

 

[radio8z]

Re:Repeater allocation

> Neil,
>
> Can't get a new repeater allocation? I'm guessing you live
> in a big city with a large population. It's up to the
> geography/terrain. I'm a HAM radio operator and, in the
> southwest desert, we have plenty of room for repeaters. We
> can install a new one any day of the week.
>
> And, how about this: presently, there are at least two TV
> channel 41 translators plus one channel 41 LPTV station, all
> within 75 miles of each other!
> Two of them are within 30 miles of each other.
>
>
> We have room for LPFM, higher power Part 15, too, with no
> chance of interference to anybody. However, the FCC is not
> moving on any of it. Care to guess why? Maybe NAB and NPR
> lobbyists?
>
> DE
>
Hi DE,

My comments here may not be of general interest but I hope the hams will find it interesting.

2 meter coordination was not available here the last time I checked. I have lived in two large metro areas with the same result. I am glad your situation is different.

I lived in another metro area when coordination began. The 2 meter "subband" was opened by the FCC for repeater use just before coordination became the rule. I was the trustee of a club 2 meter repeater and therefore a delegate to the state repeater coordination group. I recall that at the outset, all applications were tabled because of the hugh number of repeaters already operating in the metro areas. Some clubs saw what was coming and hurriedly put repeaters on the air in the new subband just before coordination so they would be grandfathered. One club had nine 2 meter units operating. There is nothing wrong with that except when coodination started, those frequencies were not available for others to operate repeaters. It didn't boil over because all the repeaters in the area were open, and only a few were adversely affected. My club repeater was also grandfathered so I am not complaining about being left out, but I did hear others complain. Then, slowly, the inverted tertiary freqs. were coordinated. The coordinators did a great job with a difficult problem but nonetheless many individuals so desiring were not able to become coordinated. When synthesised rigs became available the problem was eased quite a bit since any legal frequency pair could now be used by anyone and even small club repeaters became available for general use without crystal changes.

Our ARES group put a repeater on 220 MHz. and there was no problem with coordination due to the lack of activity on this band. We scored a spot on a TV tower with inch and a quarter hardline and that 25 watt ERP repeater was usable out to about 70 miles with a five watt transceiver. Nice, but very few bought the 220 rigs and the repeater became an administrative repeater for ARES officers.

So, coordination and licensing can work but my point is that it will not accommodate all and many will be excluded as is the case for prospective licensed broadcasters. That is not the situation with part15 now and I recommend that part15 not be changed.

I don't oppose licensed low power community broadcasting, I just argue that expanded range part15 is not the way to go because some authority will have to coordinate frequencies and the hobby use now open to all will be gone.

Neil

 

[dickfry]

LPFM vs. Class A

> I never understood the purpose of LPFM. The FCC designated
> 100 watt LPFMs and 10 Watt LPFMs. There hasn't been any
> opening to apply for LPFM 10's, only LPFM 100's. Now why
> would it make sense to apply for a 100 watt LPFM which must
> be limited to 100 Watts, Must be Non-Commercial, Must accept
> any interference from higher class FM services, and are not
> protected against when other stations move or new higher
> class FMs come on the air. LPFMs also must abide by all the
> same rules as the big stations including EAS and everything
> else. Why go for that when you can simply apply for a Class
> A which is a minimum of 100 Watts anyway. From there you
> can possibly go up. You are also protected better against
> others moves. Especially in the Dessert, or other areas
> with little population. Why go with an LPFM when you can go
> for a full class A?

In a lot of places, there is no room to place a new Class A on the reserved 88-92 MHz part of the band, but still space for LPFM in the spaces between commercial stations. Remember that the LPFM windows came and went before the FM translator explosion in 2003. Now there's precious little room left for LPFM.

LPFM has no local studio requirement, so you don't have to operate a studio/office Monday through Friday, 8 hours a day just to keep the FCC happy. There is much less paperwork for an LPFM than a full power.

Also, until another filing window opens for NCE FM, probably this fall, it was the only way to get on the air. Some LPFM operators will probably apply to upgrade to Class A when the window opens. Others will just keep what they have and hope nobody takes a likin' to that open commercial spectrum they're on.

Now if you're talking Class A Commercial vs. LPFM, LPFM costs nothing to file. Class A Commercial has a bidding process. Channels in even the most marginal towns (2000-5000 people) went for $100 to $700 THOUSAND in the last 2 rounds of FCC bidding.

-Dick the LPFM Nut

 

[dbdigital]

Re: LPFM vs. Class A

> > I never understood the purpose of LPFM. The FCC
> designated
> > 100 watt LPFMs and 10 Watt LPFMs. There hasn't been any
> > opening to apply for LPFM 10's, only LPFM 100's. Now why
>
> > would it make sense to apply for a 100 watt LPFM which
> must
> > be limited to 100 Watts, Must be Non-Commercial, Must
> accept
> > any interference from higher class FM services, and are
> not
> > protected against when other stations move or new higher
> > class FMs come on the air. LPFMs also must abide by all
> the
> > same rules as the big stations including EAS and
> everything
> > else. Why go for that when you can simply apply for a
> Class
> > A which is a minimum of 100 Watts anyway. From there you
> > can possibly go up. You are also protected better against
>
> > others moves. Especially in the Dessert, or other areas
> > with little population. Why go with an LPFM when you can
> go
> > for a full class A?
>
> In a lot of places, there is no room to place a new Class A
> on the reserved 88-92 MHz part of the band, but still space
> for LPFM in the spaces between commercial stations. Remember
> that the LPFM windows came and went before the FM translator
> explosion in 2003. Now there's precious little room left for
> LPFM.
>
> LPFM has no local studio requirement, so you don't have to
> operate a studio/office Monday through Friday, 8 hours a day
> just to keep the FCC happy. There is much less paperwork for
> an LPFM than a full power.
>
> Also, until another filing window opens for NCE FM, probably
> this fall, it was the only way to get on the air. Some LPFM
> operators will probably apply to upgrade to Class A when the
> window opens. Others will just keep what they have and hope
> nobody takes a likin' to that open commercial spectrum
> they're on.
>
> Now if you're talking Class A Commercial vs. LPFM, LPFM
> costs nothing to file. Class A Commercial has a bidding
> process. Channels in even the most marginal towns (2000-5000
> people) went for $100 to $700 THOUSAND in the last 2 rounds
> of FCC bidding.
>
> -Dick the LPFM Nut
>

Man, when there's no money it for them, the FCC (or Congress) makes it tough for LPFM broadcasters. No wonder there's so much buzz among the LPFM crowd about the up coming NCE filing window.

I saved this item which was sent to me by e-mail a couple of years ago concerning Taiwan's efforts to reform their FM band and make it more accommodating for low power, community broadcasters. I wonder if this would work in the U.S.?

Since their is no link to a website, I had to cut and paste this item. Hopefully the powers that control this site won't mind.

db
______________

The Government Information Office (GIO) yesterday made public the new
broadcasting policies and timetable for radio stations with a goal of
solving the underground station problem before December 2005.

GIO chief Lin Chia-lung emphasized that this will be the most crucial and
the last opportunity to readjust the broadcasting frequencies for stations
in Taiwan.

The GIO will first shift the medium power FM stations between 104 and 108
megahertz as well as the low power FM stations of 88.9 MHz to 95.3 MHz.

It will then accept applications for establishing LPFM stations.

The second-phase plan calls for the shifting of high power stations,
requiring existing stations to give back frequencies, and narrow the
range.

In the third stage, the switching of medium and low power stations will
be completed by the end of March 2005, and thoroughly solve the problems
concerning illegal broadcasting firms.

Li stressed that the new changes will enhance the environment for
reasonable market competition, provide operators with long-term business
opportunities, upgrade the broadcasting and receiving quality, and give
listeners wider variety of programs.

In order to break the monopoly and reallocate the air wave resources,
commercial stations will be concentrated between 91 and 104 Hz for easier
administration. The range for medium power stations will be extended to 30
kilometers from 20 km.

The existing low power stations will be either merged or upgraded. The
public radio stations like Education and Han Shen will be consolidated
into a public broadcasting network concentrated between 104.4-108 MHz.

The GIO will follow the U.S. example of solving the underground stations
to encourage the mergers of stations and allow them to use the 88.5-91 MHz
low power FM station frequencies.

Those who plan to offer public-interest services may set up stations
concentrated between 104 and 104.3 MHz.

Lin stressed again that the new policy is not to directly transform the
underground operators into legitimate broadcasting stations.

But following the latest overhaul, Taiwan will have 150 low power
stations while over a dozen of medium power stations can be added.

The GIO will announce the acceptance of applications for setting up new
stations on Oct. 1 with the switching of the frequencies set for
completion by the end of next March. Then the government will start
cracking down on illegal operators and thoroughly eliminate the
underground firms by December 2005.

Officials of the Directorate General of Telecommunications said they have
detected 93 unlicensed underground stations operating throughout the
island.

 

[DJboutit3]

I think part15 am power level should be doubled or even tripled no more & for part15 fm power should be like 1 to 10 watts. Then more people would be happy then the FCC would not have do as many busted