Hip-Hop...the new Dance sound?

[Morpheux]

It's simple, if you're going to quote me then don't take my words out of context.That's all I ask or else I will respond. Also,It's a forum and anyone can give their thoughts on a general discussion.

 

[andone]

KDM
Here is a mix you might be interested in:
http://www.deephousepage.com/search_results.php?searchString=electro

It's the one dated 1983 entitled "Electro-Funk - What Did It All Mean". In its 11 minutes you can hear samples of hip-hop, electro, disco, synth, pop, funk (and dare I say "freestyle"). There was a lot of mixing of styles and sounds. Concept still useful today.

Some of the 80s Detroit stuff might interest you too:
http://www.deephousepage.com/search_results.php?searchString=detroit

Actually the first few minutes of the one dated 1985/1986 show a really good sample of diverse sounds.


There are also a lot of other mixes on the site dating from the late 70s to today, including mixes from radio stations in addition to the club ones. So there is historical precedent for the exposure of these sounds.

http://www.deephousepage.com/mixes.php

 

[andone]

A few hours ago I heard "Silent Morning" being played on KDAY - a pioneer hip-hop radio which played "freestyle" back in the day (80s). I then remembered this thread and the "nothing in common" assertion. There're other songs I can point out:

Cindy Mizelle "This Could Be The Night" (1984) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-DD0N3EeDw
(from the Beat Street soundtrack, a movie about hip-hop)

Mikki "Love Emergency" (1984) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naCBQl9tMtc

...which funny enough has a bassline similar to …

Mason "Pour It On" (1986) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yywzHQgsPk

These pre-date the bulk of "freestyle" which was released in 1987-1989. Mikki and Mason charted in the 60 - 80 range of the R&B charts and did not chart pop.

Certain industry interests – whether at radio, record labels, or independent producers, consultants, or servicers – might think it advantageous to label and segregate music, even if there’s not much musical basis for the differentiation. Also some music “fans” seem more comfortable with a certain level of disassociation and separation. Regardless of people’s desires and motivations, the real musicality and history of this stuff can’t be ignored. It’s a shame because many different people came together to create and cultivate all these news sounds in the early to mid 80s; many different people enjoyed the music. Then later in the decade corporate (and creative) paws tried to figure out the best way to make a buck off of the new sounds. Labeling, targeting, marketing, demographics, imaging, readapting, appropriating, became more important than the actual music. It’s even sadder when “fans” can then only define the music through these corporate lenses, trying to go back and reconfigure a history that matches what has been sold to them.

Oh…
Brenda K. Starr “Vicious Beat” (1984) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40vGv3B23Rc
Also from Beat Street. How should I label this? [/rhetorical sarcasm]

That’s why I keep it simple. This is all dance or rhythmic music. American, contemporary dance/rhythmic music. And yes that includes hip-hop as hip-hop is the basis for much of this music. All these other labelings and 1,001 subcategories of house/dance/electronica are useless unless you’re citing musical terminology to specify a particular rhythmic pattern.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Interesting that i found this post brought back up within my email at the exact time I did because I was thinking of commenting on something I just noticed, but was beginning to lose interest in speaking on it.

I guess this new dance sound will most likely be passed off as "hip hop" because this is not only happening in America. They are using the term "hip hop" for it, WORLDWIDE. My Canadian friend in Taiwan (Well.... not sure if I should call her my "friend" yet because it's not proven that if I was in a burning building she'd rescue me, but... THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT), she's featured in a new video for her new song, "summer of mine"

HERE'S THE DESCRIPTION:
滿人即將在2010年8月發行首張個人專輯 "Hip Hop World" ，而"Summer of Mine" 為專輯的首推主打歌。這首是和加拿大EDM 女王 Meighan Nealon 和名製作人 Adrian Gariba 首次合作的歌曲，結合了電音以及hip hop 繞舌曲風元素，顛覆傳統聽眾對Hip Hop 的刻板印象。 如需得知滿人的最新動態和消息，請到manchuker.com 或在facebook 打"滿人 Manchuker" .

HERE'S THE LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHdejResjjQ&feature=player_embedded

______________________________________________________________________________________________/

Also, on a separate note, I've decided to go back to using the traditional, standard genre labels for music regardless of whether or not the music is new because I've noticed that ever since I began to stop using the normal names and start calling it generic terms, I've been losing fans to my Club KDM site. They assume that I "changed" because I stopped using certain terms and started using terms that could mean anything. Friday evening, I spoke to a friend via phone as he was browsing the music section of Club KDM and he started asking me "What so you stopped using the word freestyle now?" And I explained my reasoning to him. His response was: "Man I'm telling you you need to just do what you've been doing and stop listening to these kids of the new generation because they don't know nothin about freestyle and how it was done back in the day. That song by Jay Sean and Akon and those people are freestyle man. I'm telling you. Quit listening to everybody, especially the kids today man.." I did rebuttal. First I explained to him it wasn't new generation kids, but the people who grew up IN the era who were saying today's sound isn't freestyle, then I also discussed the changes in sound...etc.

However, regardless of whether or not I discuss or debate about it, bottom line is people who are looking or coming for a particular sound in music will not be interested in "pop" or "dance". They wont even bother to listen if anything indicates that they might not be interested in whatever they must go through the trouble of pressing play or downloading to examen. I'm surely not pulling in a new "pop" fan base either because... well, they can pretty much get that anywhere, so why go to Club KDM to get some "odd", different type of pop?

Another large possible reason behind losing fans or appreciation is because of the fact that I've gone more strictly new school and most people are not familiar with the new school. For Americans, it's either too urban or "not-freestyle-ish" and for German's, it's "too American sounding". I guess you could also add in other factors like the fact that I've made it possible for people to download without having to log in, therefore no one bothers to log in and message/comment anymore and the fact that I've gone quite a bit more house sounding as well. Not many people are used to house, booty bass and freestyle all mixed together. Imagine how much "worse" that becomes when you are doing that style ALL 2010, NEW SCHOOL STYLE! My friend did also mention that I should go back to playing more of the late 90's west coast sound that I truly love and that many of the dj's he spoke to from that era are talking about how tired they are of today's music. He's been complaining about today's music as well, and while I do notice a difference, I don't see today's mainstream version of booty house, booty bass and freestyle all THAT bad. Just....different.

What's funny is that I've also recently gone to the U.K. electronic music boards and notice they are using a new term called "future garage" for a new 2 Step sound.... I will not get deeply into this topic, but I'll just say they could conserve time and effort if they just simply stop calling all traditional 2 Step productions "Ol Skool garage" or "Ol Skool 2 step". That would be like us calling everything that has a booty bass or freestyle sound today "Old skool freestyle", regardless of whether or not it was old skool.

 

[Wildstyle K]

KDM
Here is a mix you might be interested in:
http://www.deephousepage.com/search_results.php?searchString=electro

It's the one dated 1983 entitled "Electro-Funk - What Did It All Mean". In its 11 minutes you can hear samples of hip-hop, electro, disco, synth, pop, funk (and dare I say "freestyle"). There was a lot of mixing of styles and sounds. Concept still useful today.

Some of the 80s Detroit stuff might interest you too:
http://www.deephousepage.com/search_results.php?searchString=detroit

Actually the first few minutes of the one dated 1985/1986 show a really good sample of diverse sounds.


There are also a lot of other mixes on the site dating from the late 70s to today, including mixes from radio stations in addition to the club ones. So there is historical precedent for the exposure of these sounds.

http://www.deephousepage.com/mixes.php

I will check these things out.

As far as KDAY, I never knew they added in Noel, but was well aware that they do use Angelina and Stevie B tracks and sometimes latin house. They are kind of odd with their formatting. I've been across quite a few stations that were like that - where they'd only play one or two artist from a certain genre.

Lastly, as I was listening to the classic hip hop channel on Sirius/Xm playing Kurtis Blow "these are the breaks", I started thinking about how different that sounded from Missy Elliott's "get your freak on" or even "the whole world" by Outkast, for example. It got me wondering why does hip hop get to evolve and change to the point where it is today without ever having to stop being called hip hop? For a moment there, that whole Timbaland and Missy sound of the late 90's did create a very noticeable difference in sound from the Run DMC and Aerosmith days. Yet, we have the new sounds from Jay Sean and Akon and them who aren't accepted in freestyle, but are closer in sound to freestyle than the back in the day hip hop was to the late 90's Timbaland and Missy hip hop sound. How in the world did this happen? How come the entire Timbaland and Missy sound wasn't "forced" to be relabeled separately from "regular hip hop"? Unlike dirty south hip hop (or down south rap) that had all the Lil Jon style shouting in it, it wasn't even given it's own subgenre! Oh, and with that being said, how come house tracks by Lil Jon aren't being called "dirty house"?