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History and Order of Mount Wilson?

R

Ryan Williams

I was the order of FM stations moving up to Mount Wilson.

I came across a document the other day that talked about KTLA being the first TV station on the mountain and it made mention of the first FM: KFI-FM on 105.9 in the 50s that later turned its license in because it couldn't make any money.

Was the last one to make the move up Power (moving up from Flint in the early 90s)? Or was there another one after that?

Did any of the full Bs not on Wilson, like 96.3, 97.9, 98.7, 106.7 ever have permits to move that were not completed?
 
CC'ing fybush as he may be of assistance here. If you go to his website, www.fybush.com, you'll find lots of articles about Mt. Wilson, its history and it's been featured as the Site of the Week on a few occasions. Click on the link below for results of a Google search for articles about Mt. Wilson on his site. There are several hits:

 
Ryan Williams said:
I was the order of FM stations moving up to Mount Wilson.

I came across a document the other day that talked about KTLA being the first TV station on the mountain and it made mention of the first FM: KFI-FM on 105.9 in the 50s that later turned its license in because it couldn't make any money.

Was the last one to make the move up Power (moving up from Flint in the early 90s)? Or was there another one after that?

Did any of the full Bs not on Wilson, like 96.3, 97.9, 98.7, 106.7 ever have permits to move that were not completed?
Click to expand...
KTLA 5 went on the air in Jan 1947, the first licensed commercial TV station on the West Coast. Began experimental broadcasting in 1942 as W6XYZ
 
Even I don't feel up to doing the research on this.
 
K.M. Richards said:
Even I don't feel up to doing the research on this.
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I got curious, and the history cards are all there for the searching via fccdata.org.

So here's the order, as best I can piece it together:

The very first FM on Wilson is not what I would have expected. It was KRHM on 94.7, which was licensed there on June 30, 1949.

After that:

93.1 as KNX-FM 12/7/1950
95.5 as KECA-FM 3/7/51
92.3 as KFAC-FM 1951 (moved up from the KFAC 1330 site)
101.1 as KHJ-FM 6/11/52 (moved from Mt. Lee, where it was the oldest commercial FM in town, starting in 1943)
104.3 as KBIQ 1959 (moved from 1655 N. Cherokee)
105.1 as KBCA 5/4/59
102.7 as KLAC-FM 3/7/61
103.5 as KADS 6/16/61 (moved from the Angelus Temple, 1100 Glendale Blvd)
90.7 KPFK 1/22/64
107.5 as KBBI 8/14/64 (moved from 536 S. Hope in DTLA)

and then a long gap...

100.3 as KIQQ 1983 (from Briarcrest)
89.3 KPCC 1989 (from Flint, and before that the Pasadena College campus)
101.9 as KMPC-FM 7/13/89 (from Flint Peak)
97.1 as KHTZ 1/10/90 (from Flint Peak)
93.9 as KZLA 1991
105.9 KPWR 7/15/93 (from Flint Peak)
91.5 KUSC 1994 (Mt. Harvard, from Flint)
99.5 KKLA 2/17/95 (from Flint Peak)
 
fybush said:
I got curious, and the history cards are all there for the searching via fccdata.org.

So here's the order, as best I can piece it together:

The very first FM on Wilson is not what I would have expected. It was KRHM on 94.7, which was licensed there on June 30, 1949.

After that:

93.1 as KNX-FM 12/7/1950
95.5 as KECA-FM 3/7/51
92.3 as KFAC-FM 1951 (moved up from the KFAC 1330 site)
101.1 as KHJ-FM 6/11/52 (moved from Mt. Lee, where it was the oldest commercial FM in town, starting in 1943)
104.3 as KBIQ 1959 (moved from 1655 N. Cherokee)
105.1 as KBCA 5/4/59
102.7 as KLAC-FM 3/7/61
103.5 as KADS 6/16/61 (moved from the Angelus Temple, 1100 Glendale Blvd)
90.7 KPFK 1/22/64
107.5 as KBBI 8/14/64 (moved from 536 S. Hope in DTLA)

and then a long gap...

100.3 as KIQQ 1983 (from Briarcrest)
89.3 KPCC 1989 (from Flint, and before that the Pasadena College campus)
101.9 as KMPC-FM 7/13/89 (from Flint Peak)
97.1 as KHTZ 1/10/90 (from Flint Peak)
93.9 as KZLA 1991
105.9 KPWR 7/15/93 (from Flint Peak)
91.5 KUSC 1994 (Mt. Harvard, from Flint)
99.5 KKLA 2/17/95 (from Flint Peak)
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That is incredible! Thanks, Scott.

I did not expect 94.7 to be at the top of the list. I also didn't realize how many signals came from Flint at one point.
 
fybush said:
101.9 as KMPC-FM 7/13/89 (from Flint Peak)
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As I noted back in December when I posted the entire history of 101.9, KUTE moved to Wilson (taking a huge decrease in ERP) in 1969.
 
K.M. Richards said:
As I noted back in December when I posted the entire history of 101.9, KUTE moved to Wilson (taking a huge decrease in ERP) in 1969.
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Whoops - right you are. The 1989 entry was one of the power increases. Thanks for the correction.
 
Doesn’t 98.7 have an aux on Mt Wilson? I guess their grandfathered site in the valley serves better than relocating up the mountain and taking the power hit?
 
It's interesting to see the wide range of powers each of the Mount Wilson FM stations have. While the Empire State Building/World Trade Center and Sears Tower/Willis Tower FM stations are fairly consistent in their power, Mount Wilson is a grab bag.

KBIG really is big: 65,000 watts. (At one time is was 105,000 watts. What made KBIG reduce its power?) KLOS is right behind at 63,000, followed by KTWV at 58,000. But the biggest of all is KPFK at 110,000! How did a non-commercial station get that wattage?

On the puny side, as discussed above, is KSCA at 5,000 watts. And who would guess that KIIS is only 8,000 watts? But the smallest power is NPR non-commercial KPCC at a mere 600 watts. That's a contrast: KPCC at 600, KPFK at 110,000 watts.

There's not much rhyme or reason. It's not like the earlier the arrival, the greater the power. KBIG was the sixth to sign on. KPFK was the tenth. So it's not like first in gets the biggest signal.
 
Gregg. said:
It's interesting to see the wide range of powers each of the Mount Wilson FM stations have. While the Empire State Building/World Trade Center and Sears Tower/Willis Tower FM stations are fairly consistent in their power, Mount Wilson is a grab bag.
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Part of that is because there was nothing taller in NYC in the early days of FM... and Chicago had o tall buildings. Mt Wilson has been there for a few hundred thousand years more. Before FMs were restricted to today''s A, B and C classes lots of LA stations were up there and got grandfathered in.
Gregg. said:
KBIG really is big: 65,000 watts. (At one time is was 105,000 watts. What made KBIG reduce its power?)
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RF danger for people working on Mt Wilson near their site.
Gregg. said:
KLOS is right behind at 63,000, followed by KTWV at 58,000. But the biggest of all is KPFK at 110,000! How did a non-commercial station get that wattage?
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There was no limit on non-coms, and KPFK goes back to the 50's.
Gregg. said:
On the puny side, as discussed above, is KSCA at 5,000 watts. And who would guess that KIIS is only 8,000 watts? But the smallest power is NPR non-commercial KPCC at a mere 600 watts. That's a contrast: KPCC at 600, KPFK at 110,000 watts.
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KSCA was very high power on a smaller mountain in the Glendale area of LA... but they did not move until much later.
Gregg. said:
There's not much rhyme or reason. It's not like the earlier the arrival, the greater the power. KBIG was the sixth to sign on. KPFK was the tenth. So it's not like first in gets the biggest signal.
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Again, the key was the change in regulation that occurred well into the life of FM. Stations that were high power and up there early got grandfathered. You will see cases of this kind of non-conforming power in other locations where there are hilltop or mountaintop sites or where very early FMs that located on co-owned TV towers put big power at high elevations... take a look at a couple of those in Michigan, for example.

However, may high power early FMs did not have maximized height so they might have been 110,000 watts but at 320 feet...so eventually most raised height and lost the high power.
 
Gregg. said:
On the puny side, as discussed above, is KSCA at 5,000 watts. And who would guess that KIIS is only 8,000 watts? But the smallest power is NPR non-commercial KPCC at a mere 600 watts. That's a contrast: KPCC at 600, KPFK at 110,000 watts.
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Mount Wilson is such an amazing tower site location with great line of site to so much of the market that the real world difference between KSCA at 4,800 watts ERP and KBIG's 68,000 watts ERP is not nearly as significant as you would guess. There are some differences, in large structures on the fringes and in areas with geographic obstructions, but for the most part all of those signals up there are adequate. I do find that the KPCC coverage is noticeably weaker than the others.

It helps that LA is a major market with a lot of revenue at stake and generally has very good engineering across the board.
 
I got to thinking, in reading the ongoing discussion, that some here might be interested in something I did a decade ago (on the 70th anniversary of K45LA-- today's KRTH -- beginning operations) for Don Barrett's site on the history of FM call letters in the market:

History of FM Call Letters in Los Angeles

www.kmrichards.com www.kmrichards.com

While it obviously does not include the six changes since mid-2011 (and one station changed twice since then), it has been vetted by no less an expert as Jim Hilliker and is considered to be the accurate listing.
 
Ryan Williams said:
Mount Wilson is such an amazing tower site location with great line of site to so much of the market that the real world difference between KSCA at 4,800 watts ERP and KBIG's 68,000 watts ERP is not nearly as significant as you would guess.
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I remember when several of us from Heftel met with the "old" management of KSCA a few days before taking over the operation under an LMA to buy agreement. We were told in no uncertain terms that no matter how good our programming, they had proven that the signal could not compete and we should look for a niche format and not try to be overly competitive.

We did not follow that advice. The station was #1 in its first full book.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I got to thinking, in reading the ongoing discussion, that some here might be interested in something I did a decade ago (on the 70th anniversary of K45LA-- today's KRTH -- beginning operations) for Don Barrett's site on the history of FM call letters in the market:

History of FM Call Letters in Los Angeles

www.kmrichards.com www.kmrichards.com

While it obviously does not include the six changes since mid-2011 (and one station changed twice since then), it has been vetted by no less an expert as Jim Hilliker and is considered to be the accurate listing.
Click to expand...
Great info...speaking of early FM...do you know why the channel numbers established for FM were apparently never used? Channel 201 being 88.1 and so on...
 
TomásEstefan said:
Great info...speaking of early FM...do you know why the channel numbers established for FM were apparently never used? Channel 201 being 88.1 and so on...
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I've never found anything that explained that, but I have a theory. The channel numbers came as part of the process of moving FM from 44-50MHz to 88-106MHz and it was then that the FCC adopted an allocations table (using the same process as TV for adding/deleting FM allocations to a community). My theory is that it was easier to read said table if it had channel numbers rather than frequencies.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I've never found anything that explained that, but I have a theory. The channel numbers came as part of the process of moving FM from 44-50MHz to 88-106MHz and it was then that the FCC adopted an allocations table (using the same process as TV for adding/deleting FM allocations to a community). My theory is that it was easier to read said table if it had channel numbers rather than frequencies.
Click to expand...
Was it 44-50 mHz that would become Channel 1 which was then later deleted from television?
 
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