Hit the Post

[RicoGregg]

Eduardo you must be one unhappy sack. Tell us about how Bobby Ocean, Real Don
Steele, Robert W Morgan, Dr Don, MG Kelly, Humble Harve, and the rest did it wrong.
There was a reason your career programming mainstream Top 40 was short-lived. You got
your a-- handed to you.

I knew Robert W. Morgan. I worked with him during the last days of KMPC's Station of the Stars era. He was doing mornings (Good Morgan) until the station's disasterous, ill-advised switch to all sports. Then he jumped to KRTH.

KMPC was not a place where hitting the post was a high priority, or any kind of priority at all. One of my biggest surprises when I went to work there was how laid back the atmosphere there was. Morgan, and the other KMPC personalities at the time, Scott O'Neil, Jim Lange, Don McCullough et al, weren't hitting the posts at all. Morgan especially seemed very happy not to have a consultant breathing down his neck. That seemed to be a stress that was pretty much exclusive to Top 40 radio.

Top 40, with all of its' artificial hype, fast-talking DJs, and cotton candy music was one of the biggest reasons that Tom Donahue more or less invented the album rock format in San Francisco in the mid-60s. He felt that audiences deserved to be leveled with by the jocks, not leveled at. Not talking over music was sacrosanct. It was the difference between night & day. That's when FM radio began to come of age.

Around 1970, a story circulated around San Diego about a jock at 136 KGB, who one day got so fed up with everything, the hype, the stress, the pressures, the hassles, the everything, that right in the middle of a shift, he opened his mic, was about to talk over an song opening, but froze, closed the mic, got up, grabbed his jacket, and walked out of the building. Fortunately, there was another Boss Jock there to finish the shift. This jock, whose name I don't recall, was never seen again. He didn't even come to get his back pay.

The format can play tricks on one's head, needless to say. Whether or not hitting the post is an art form or not is like art itself, subject to individual conjecture.

I would think that someone attacking Mr. Eduardo for having a differing opinion would have to be pretty unhappy himself.

 

[TVC1500]

knew Robert W. Morgan. I worked with him during the last days of KMPC's Station of the Stars era. He was doing mornings (Good Morgan) until the station's disasterous, ill-advised switch to all sports. Then he jumped to KRTH.

KMPC was not a place where hitting the post was a high priority, or any kind of priority at all. One of my biggest surprises when I went to work there was how laid back the atmosphere there was. Morgan, and the other KMPC personalities at the time, Scott O'Neil, Jim Lange, Don McCullough et al, weren't hitting the posts at all. Morgan especially seemed very happy not to have a consultant breathing down his neck. That seemed to be a stress that was pretty much exclusive to Top 40 radio.

KMPC has what to do with Top 40 radio? What is the point?



Top 40, with all of its' artificial hype, fast-talking DJs, and cotton candy music was one of the biggest reasons that Tom Donahue more or less invented the album rock format in San Francisco in the mid-60s. He felt that audiences deserved to be leveled with by the jocks, not leveled at. Not talking over music was sacrosanct. It was the difference between night & day. That's when FM radio began to come of age.

Artificial Hype?, funny I always thought AOR had an artifical laid-back flavor. Once again what is the point since AOR was a different format than Top 40 what is your problem? Oh likely you never worked the big
leagues doing Top 40.

Around 1970, a story circulated around San Diego about a jock at 136 KGB, who one day got so fed up with everything, the hype, the stress, the pressures, the hassles, the everything, that right in the middle of a shift, he opened his mic, was about to talk over an song opening, but froze, closed the mic, got up, grabbed his jacket, and walked out of the building. Fortunately, there was another Boss Jock there to finish the shift. This jock, whose name I don't recall, was never seen again. He didn't even come to get his back pay.

Sounds like either a bad jock or a phony story. Of course that could happen anywhere under any format so your point is?

The format can play tricks on one's head, needless to say. Whether or not hitting the post is an art form or not is like art itself, subject to individual conjecture.

You sound like a very confused person. Just because you didn't like or more likely weren't cut out to
do Top 40 doesn't make it open for revisonist debate on the skills & creative thinking it took to be a top performer.

I would think that someone attacking Mr. Eduardo for having a differing opinion would have to be pretty unhappy himself.

Only unhappy that Eduardo's negativity and compulsion to argue about every point, or to attempt to revise history is rewarded by saps like yourself.

 

[davideduardo]

Only unhappy that Eduardo's negativity and compulsion to argue about every point, or to attempt to revise history is rewarded by saps like yourself.

Nobody is revising history. It's simply a statement of fact that listeners liked hitting the post a lot less than the "mine is tighter than yours" joscks did. Somehow hitting th epost became synonymous with talent, which of course it is not.

This is just a classic case of ignoring what pleases the listener.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Only unhappy that Eduardo's negativity and compulsion to argue about every point, or to attempt to revise history is rewarded by saps like yourself.

Nobody is revising history. It's simply a statement of fact that listeners liked hitting the post a lot less than the "mine is tighter than yours" joscks did. Somehow hitting th epost became synonymous with talent, which of course it is not.

This is just a classic case of ignoring what pleases the listener.

As a listener who grew up on Top 40, I must agree with David, I did not like very much talking too much over the intros. You had to be a SuperStar to do it without distracting from the music. Some could do it, most sounded amatuerish.

And what's with today's habit mostly on Hot ACs, and alternatives to have a fast tempo music bed under every word a jock is speaking between sets? Its annoying and distracting. Is it just the "rule" for formats aimed at a younger listener?

 

[firepoint525]

Only unhappy that Eduardo's negativity and compulsion to argue about every point, or to attempt to revise history is rewarded by saps like yourself.

Nobody is revising history. It's simply a statement of fact that listeners liked hitting the post a lot less than the "mine is tighter than yours" joscks did. Somehow hitting th epost became synonymous with talent, which of course it is not.

This is just a classic case of ignoring what pleases the listener.

As a listener who grew up on Top 40, I must agree with David, I did not like very much talking too much over the intros. You had to be a SuperStar to do it without distracting from the music. Some could do it, most sounded amatuerish.

And what's with today's habit mostly on Hot ACs, and alternatives to have a fast tempo music bed under every word a jock is speaking between sets? Its annoying and distracting. Is it just the "rule" for formats aimed at a younger listener?

You're right about it being distracting. Not only that, if it is too loud, it drowns out the announcer to the point that we can't understand what he is saying! Apparently, this practice has grown out of an extreme fear of dead air! If the announcer needs a music bed underneath him while he talks (or thinks of what to say next), maybe it is time for him to look for another line of work! : (I'm guessing this practice is forced on the announcers by GMs or PDs.)

 

[firepoint525]

You've got to be kidding. There is a line of jocks that could fill Petco who could hit
a post better than the deadwood you've mentioned. For one Rich Brother Robin, world
class level.

Unfortunately, it's stupid DJ tricks like hitting the post that help drive people from radio, or to jockless formats like Jack. In most cases, the intro is a vital part of the song. Leave it alone.

Not very often that I agree with David Eduardo, but I believe he has "hit the post" with this one! It wasn't until I came to this board that I learned that the practice of talking all over the intro of a song was called "hitting the post"! : I never knew there was a name for this practice, and I worked in radio for 14 years myself. I certainly did my share of talking all over the intros of songs, but it seemed that the longer I was in radio, the less I did that.

I would never advocate never talking over the intro of a song, but I also believe you should let a song "breathe." For instance, if the intro is 15 seconds, talk over, say, the first 10 seconds, and then let the listener have the last five to get into the song and enjoy it.

I have seen the practice of "overtalking" the intro of a song lampooned by comics on the Tonight Show! :

 

[RicoGregg]

Only unhappy that Eduardo's negativity and compulsion to argue about every point, or to attempt to revise history is rewarded by saps like yourself.

Nobody is revising history. It's simply a statement of fact that listeners liked hitting the post a lot less than the "mine is tighter than yours" joscks did. Somehow hitting th epost became synonymous with talent, which of course it is not.

This is just a classic case of ignoring what pleases the listener.

Let me see if I've got this right: You're uptight, stressed out, standoffish, coiled up, angry, confrontational, and have a chip on your shoulder because you want to stick up for hitting the post.

You also take every little opportunity to cheap shot the most qualified radio person posting at R/I.

Feeling inadequate, are we? If that little cheap shot you took at me was supposed to insult me, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

You may seem bothersome to some, but I somehow don't think that you're capable of actually hurting anybody.

Hitting the post. That's worth arguing over? Aye yi yi. :

 

[davideduardo]

Hitting the post. That's worth arguing over? Aye yi yi. :

That's the best line in this thread.

Now maybe we can move on to some other ugly little beliefs of the 70's like time warping.

 

[TVC1500]

Rico: I didn't start this. Eduardo had to weigh in with his research finds bla bla bla. What is so silly is
we're not talking about reviving this practice, it was simply nostalgia for jocks who did it back in the
day.

You sound like a failed disc-jockey. I am sorry your career didn't go as planned. But the great jocks
like Steele, Bobby Ocean and others created magic by adding a kinetic energy to the music. I am not advocating the practice today, or for hack small time jocks. If you ever worked in the bigs and could put your act out front on a dominant radio station you would understand, apparently you didn't.

Eduardo couldn't sneak this b.s. argument past his buddy Bill Tanner, who has a much stronger mainstream track record than David could ever dream of. Ask him about Y-100, and whether hitting posts was a negative. That's a load of crap. Once again you take a fun topic and throw a turd in the punch bowl because your a negative, research oriented, bland person. You're likely better than that, but that's who you play here.

Rico: You jumped into this with all the verve of a 60's burnout, down on the man because the robotic DJ plays hits and talks fast. Who walked out of KGB? Tell Shotgun Tom to his face about laying off the posts, maybe you can score a all night voice track gig in Riverside to find your inner Jim Ladd. No not stressed out just having fun outing a bitter old radio groupie who couldn't cut it. Hey I need an all night board op at one of my stations interested?





Back to Rico.

 

[vonrollskyway1]

No body hits the post better than Dave Rickards at 101.5 KGB.

With regards to Sam Bass, The Greener, and Xavier the X-Man.

i agree dave rickards hits the post perfect.

 

[davideduardo]

Rico: I didn't start this. Eduardo had to weigh in with his research finds bla bla bla. What is so silly is
we're not talking about reviving this practice, it was simply nostalgia for jocks who did it back in the
day.

"Research" is just a way of saying, "finding out what listeners want."

Listeners never wanted jocks talking over the entire ramp of each song. Only jocks cared, because it was a way to show off.

You sound like a failed disc-jockey. I am sorry your career didn't go as planned.

In every thread where you participate, those who don't agree with you are "failed" or "small market."

Eduardo couldn't sneak this b.s. argument past his buddy Bill Tanner,

Y100 under Tanner was, in many ways, the antithesis of Top 40. The morning show had Morning Zoo elelments of fun and humor, but without the screachiness. Remember, Tanner came from AC in Jackson, not Top 40. In fact, Tanner and I used to trade jock leads when he was at WJDX and I was at WERC. So Y100 was really quite ahead of its time in being just a bit more adult.

who has a much stronger mainstream track record than David could ever dream of.

We probably have similar mainstream track records. He was #1 min Miami several times, I was #1 in places like Buenos Aires, a very mainstream market of 17,000,000 and bigger that New York. Tanner and I worked togethere on KLVE, which for both his leadership period of 5 years and my period of the last 8 has been #1 or #2 in 25-54 in nearly every book... with a very very mainstream AC format.

Ask him about Y-100, and whether hitting posts was a negative.

I don't have to ask him. I worked for a number of years in the same offices with him. I listened to Y 100 and Radio Hit about equally and loved Tanner in the Morning and often asked Bill to help with jock meetings and staff training. Hitting the post was not one of the priorities at that end of the building.

Once again you take a fun topic and throw a turd in the punch bowl because your a negative, research oriented, bland person. You're likely better than that, but that's who you play here.

Yes, i am very research oriented. I take every opportunity to talk to the listens, which is what research is. If you had spent more time finding out what listeners wanted, as opposed to thrilling yourself by stepping on every last millisecond of the ramp, maybe you would not have to hide behind a fake name.

 

[romer979fm]

I first heard Y-100 in August of 1978 while visiting South FLA for a week: I had heard a lot
ABOUT the station in the trades, and was searching for 100.7 on the car radio while heading down I-95.
I was expecitng the typical big-voiced CHR formatted station...and was shocked when I first heard it: the jock sounded
like a kid...no jingles...different music...it was NOT what I expected. However, it took about 10 minutes to understand what
Tanner had built with Y-100, and I've tried to use his philosophy ever since: real people having fun on the radio.
Y-100 owned South FLA during this period...they were on everywhere...in businesses...at the beaches...and I could see
people in their cars singing with the songs (not just a few times...many times). The jocks I remember had unique voices and names:
Earl The Pearl...Cramer...the Y-Onic woman (1978, remember)...Robert W. Walker...and of course, Tanner's Morning Show.
Lots of music (and visits) from KC and his labelmates...tons of disco crossover tunes with the CHR...and promotions that sounded
bigger than life (but really were not). Very impressive.
In fact, I stole a variation of the Y-100 calls (WHYI) for the move-in of 107.3 in Nashville which became Y-107...with calls of WYHY (on 107.5).
Only time I've been able to pick calls.

Oh yeah, back to the original point...Y-100 jocks did talk up tunes...but not always to the vocal. It was always fast...and worked.

 

[RicoGregg]

Rico: I didn't start this. Eduardo had to weigh in with his research finds bla bla bla. What is so silly is
we're not talking about reviving this practice, it was simply nostalgia for jocks who did it back in the
day.

What David Eduardo weighed in with was his expertise. You responded with insults and cheap shots. It was immature, sleazy, and unprofessional on your part.

You sound like a failed disc-jockey. I am sorry your career didn't go as planned. But the great jocks
like Steele, Bobby Ocean and others created magic by adding a kinetic energy to the music. I am not advocating the practice today, or for hack small time jocks. If you ever worked in the bigs and could put your act out front on a dominant radio station you would understand, apparently you didn't.

And you sound like the kid nobody would sit with at lunchtime. I may be older and out of the business, but I still get calls for fill-in duty, which I mostly turn down. In the last decade, jobs have come looking for me. That happens when you gain peoples' respect. If you're lucky enough to get older, and gain any respect at all despite your appalling attitude, you might one day begin to understand that. In the meantime, you still have a lot of bridges to buy.

Eduardo couldn't sneak this b.s. argument past his buddy Bill Tanner, who has a much stronger mainstream track record than David could ever dream of. Ask him about Y-100, and whether hitting posts was a negative. That's a load of crap. Once again you take a fun topic and throw a turd in the punch bowl because your a negative, research oriented, bland person. You're likely better than that, but that's who you play here.

I didn't have to ask him. He explained it all very well in his last post. Too bad you're not good at explanations yourself. I'd love to see you in some kind of court trial. The sweat from you trying to explain yourself to a prosecutor would short out the lights.

At the rate you're going, I probably will read about you on trial somewhere someday. I certainly won't be surprised.

Rico: You jumped into this with all the verve of a 60's burnout, down on the man because the robotic DJ plays hits and talks fast. Who walked out of KGB? Tell Shotgun Tom to his face about laying off the posts, maybe you can score a all night voice track gig in Riverside to find your inner Jim Ladd. No not stressed out just having fun outing a bitter old radio groupie who couldn't cut it. Hey I need an all night board op at one of my stations interested?

I met Shotgun Tom in 1970, the same year I met Bobby Ocean. You don't walk into someone's shift at a station you don't work at, and tell them what to do. At least, I wouldn't.

I did do an all night voice track gig in Riverside in the early and mid-80s at an FM Country station. I didn't go looking for that job. The PD called me. Riverside is a nice town, and part of the 29th largest radio market.

While I was at Golden West, I worked with Jim Ladd at both KMPC-FM and The Edge. No need to find an inner Jim when I knew the real thing. Oh yes, I almost forgot: We didn't talk over the music there, either.

While we're on the subject, you've been invoking a lot of radio's legendary names in your "arguments". I knew or met several of them myself. Did you actually know any of these people? Knowing of them, like everyone else does, doesn't count.

Outing people of any kind for any reason is your idea of fun? A rattlesnake has more charm than you. Your mean-spiritedness speaks volumes about your apparent lack of ethics or character.

Perhaps you missed your true calling: Replacing Jerry Falwell in Lynchburg.

I would do a fill-in all night board op job for someone who's respectable, let alone likeable. Sorry, Charlie. You don't qualify on either count. And I highly doubt that you could afford me.

Back to Rico.

Your witness.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

"The sweat from you trying to explain yourself to a prosecutor would short out the lights. "

Priceless!! Rico, that line should be copyrighted!

Was the FM country station by any chance KWDJ (92.7)?

And to top it off you were part of one of the best rock radio stations I have ever heard--- KMPC-FM Full Spectrum Rock & Roll. I salute you for that alone 8)

PS Was John Logic his real name and what ever happened with him? Thanks, this thread has been a fun read

 

[michael hagerty]

I get a kick out of hearing a jock hit the post flawlessly. But then, I'm an ex-jock and PD. Virtually everyone I know who isn't could care less.

The upside to that is that if it isn't being done to hit every post on every song just because you can, the listener will tolerate some of it. In fact, talking up the intro can (and was once commonly) be used to relieve clutter....contest promos, weather, a plug for another jock on the air...if you can do it live in the space of the intro, you've shortened the next stopset.

Even the masters (Bobby Ocean, Rich Brother Robbin and others) knew that sometimes, you just let the music breathe.

My favorites? Two polar opposites...Machine Gun Kelly covering the 40-something second intro to The Doobie Brothers' Long Train Runnin' with: "KHJ and Machiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine Gun!"

The other was Marvelous Mark McKay over the same record who said: "KFR................................................................................................................................C".

---Michael Hagerty

 

[Garrett]

Unfortunately, it's stupid DJ tricks like hitting the post that help drive people from radio, or to jockless formats like Jack. In most cases, the intro is a vital part of the song. Leave it alone.

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. If that's true, than we might as well just plug in an iPod shuffle to a transmitter and call it a day.
I think dead air and not "hitting the post" make for very boring radio.

There are plenty of ways for a jock to do a segue or transition or whatever you want to call it without using the WHOLE intro to talk over. I'm just saying that "inside the building" we were conditioned to think that hitting the post was a great skill. I believe that it harms the mood and the content of the songs and that a jock can do a transition or intro without hitting the valuable parts of the song.

Perhaps, so long as we keep the songs flowing.
As a side note, one PD that I worked for told me "never back-sell, this is Top 40, always introduce the new song at the begining over the intro" but then when I did that, I found there were songs with no intros at all, and got called in again, and told "talk off the fadeout of the last song" which was contradictory. Then I found out there were cases where I had cold ending songs back to back with a song with no intro that I had to talk over, and was called in again: "just get the name of the station out and start the new song.
Very confusing.

The thing is, in the case of Top 40, I am so trained on hearing the announcer talk over the intro and introduce the new song, like its a sound bed, and I always like listening to radio like this. It just sounds natural to me. So to me, that's good radio.

But I see what you are saying, if turns people off, it shouldn't be done anymore. I still don't see the problem with backselling, but that's just me.

 

[RicoGregg]

"The sweat from you trying to explain yourself to a prosecutor would short out the lights. "

Priceless!! Rico, that line should be copyrighted!

Thank you very much.

Was the FM country station by any chance KWDJ (92.7)?

Yes, it was. Even though the Lapica family sold off the FM, they still have the AM, now called KPRO, on the same property, and some of the people I worked with are still there, and I'm still friendly with them.

FYI: Here's a great, if outdated article on the Lapica family from the Ukranian Weekly:

http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/1997/119715.shtml

The Lapicas were very respectable people. I liked working for them.

PS Was John Logic his real name and what ever happened with him?

John Logic was not his given name, but he may have legally changed it to that. On general principle, I don't do a lot of prying into people's personal affairs, so I never asked. John was a great guy and fun to work with. I'm sorry that I lost contact with him after the demise of The Edge.

According to the L.A. Radio website, John is in the Seattle area (logically), and running a surf and snowboard shop.

 

[jonbruce]

I like what Michael Haggerty says. Sure, way back in the early 1960's there was research out there indicating some individuals didn't like jocks talking over the intros. In the mid 60's KACY 1520 in the Ventura market with it's Top 40 format tried it without any talk over the intros. As I recall no increase in ratings resulted. It made the station sound old fashioned and cluttered like 1940's radio. I think the major problem today is too much clutter on the back sells with jocks taking to much time doing 2, 3 or more elements before entering a long spot stop set. Without jock talk on the intros the station lacks forward momentum and excitement. As Michael mentions you don't have to talk over every song. Let a few go by, but doing promos and liners etc. over the intros adds time in each hour to the point maybe an additional tune could be played in that hour.

 

[Tom Wells]

The Mad Daddy added bubbles and noises as necessary to add whole minutes before a song to intro and sometimes only stepped on the song a wee little bit....a 2-minute talkup, then full room for the song ....it can be done.


Back sells are not top 40 except maybe for very last song, never 3-? songs back. That says college radio.
There is a very fine line between not enough and too much.

The complainers were likely people with tape recorders, wishing to avoid buying the records.
Yes, music piracy existed in this early crude form.

 

[Bob_Hudson]

I get a kick out of hearing a jock hit the post flawlessly. But then, I'm an ex-jock and PD. Virtually everyone I know who isn't could care less.

I got into serious trouble at a Montana station: Crosby Stills Nash & Young's song about the Kent State massacre by the National Guard had an intro that was something like 25 seconds long. As a 19 year old punk I thought it would cool to start that intro about five seconds into a 30-second National Guard PSA, so as soon as the spot ended, CSNY came in singing about "Tin soldiers and Nixon coming..."

Needless to say everyone in town over 20 thought it was atrocious (and we were the only radio station in town).