Hit the Post

[Tom Wells]

That was very very fine usage of radio. Kudos.

It's exactly what radio should do.

 

[TVC1500]

Well of course real jocks and programmers get it, they didn't abuse intros-many times artfully hitting a
post just no more than say 8 seconds into a long intro was just as effective for conveying the image
and energy of of the station or your content.

The good news is most Modern Rock or Alternative jocks don't take after the laid back-non-dynamic AOR style which is so dated today. I don't like music beds under the jock either, never did. I hosted a syndicated show that required a lot of split second timing with callers and produced bits, I talked the producer into dumping all the music beds, it ended up sounding a lot better.


Rico & Eduardo, hope that colon cleanse helps.

 

[RicoGregg]

Rico & Eduardo, hope that colon cleanse helps.

It sure did. It watered down the harmful sticking substance and rendered it totally ineffective.

Thank you for your concern!

Remember to always hit that post!

 

[jprg]

Back in the 1970's to early 80's I was a big fan of KFRC "the Big 610" in San Francisco. Between every song the jock would talk over every other song for a few seconds and play a liner between every other song. The liners were from 2 seconds to around 6 and it kept the flow going nicely.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

BTW, the 98WRC Control Room got a nice plug on
All Access last Wednesday.

 

[nmoore6676]

As my grandpa used to say, back in my day..... Anyway I remember that the DJ copies of most singles came with the intro and outro times printed on the label. I don't think the art of hitting the post was so much showing off as it was a way to squeeze more music into the hour. There was always the "we play more music than the other guys" competition.

Now days I hear stations like KKGO and KFRG do 40 minute music sessions but they do sweepers, imaging and DJ commentary and on K-Frog even traffic as a part of it. Back in my day when we did xx-minutes of music it was all music with one song segueing right into the next with maybe a couple of doubleU blah blah blah, plays more music drops within the set.

In any event being able to hit the post was something we were all proud of and there was a lot of I'm better than you jabbing among the troops.

 

[hamNcheese]

Hitting the post. That's worth arguing over? Aye yi yi. :

That's the best line in this thread.

Now maybe we can move on to some other ugly little beliefs of the 70's like time warping.

The moon is made of cheese.

 

[TinaDelgado]

Got to admit, that hitting the post was not really an art form...but when called for it was a great punctuator If the jock had something clever to say. In my time at WDHF, Chicago and KFRC, San Francisco in the mid to late 70's pros like Captain Whammo and Dr. Don used the post to accentuate their raps. If it's not overdone it's effective and entertaining...even those not in radio.
I occasionally hear a few San Diego jocks currently do a talk up. Dave Rickards does it nicely but it's mostly tongue-in-cheek (in my opinion), Gene Knight on KyXy has the ability to do it but rarely does it--not really approppirate for that station. Coincidentally I heard Sonny West do it today on KyXy and it sounded pretty tight. Once again, for these guys it's not the norm, but a little bit goes a long way to spice up what could be a bland presentation.
Regarding research, yes, listeners always say they dislike jocks talking over music, they hate too many commercials and they want more variety in the music. But when it gets down to it, listeners want to hear songs they like. Stations that increase their lists often see reduction in their TSL. What the listeners say and what they like and tolerate are two different things.

 

[Tom Wells]

That's like saying "I want to keep the weight off but I HAFTA eat this much..".

Either they're not listening, or knee-jerking. We are physically hard-wired to react to differences.
HOW we do this makes a big difference.

I prefer a mix of talk-ups, cold-cuts, overlaps, and dead air personally.
As long as the mix of the "imperfections" remain in perfect balance, this is a signature as much as any style,
and at least you're never gritting your teeth, because every opportunity is taken to overtalk an intro.

Seem to me Captain Whammo ran over a good deal IIRC.

Please excuse any missing "h"s (key-board do-funny)

 

[Pronkie]

I like what Michael Haggerty says. Sure, way back in the early 1960's there was research out there indicating some individuals didn't like jocks talking over the intros. In the mid 60's KACY 1520 in the Ventura market with it's Top 40 format tried it without any talk over the intros. As I recall no increase in ratings resulted. It made the station sound old fashioned and cluttered like 1940's radio. I think the major problem today is too much clutter on the back sells with jocks taking to much time doing 2, 3 or more elements before entering a long spot stop set. Without jock talk on the intros the station lacks forward momentum and excitement. As Michael mentions you don't have to talk over every song. Let a few go by, but doing promos and liners etc. over the intros adds time in each hour to the point maybe an additional tune could be played in that hour.

My father in law worked at KACY in the 60's and 70's as on air, sales, general manager and owner....I told him of this post and he did tell me that what they were trying to do was flow the music after the KACY jingle played....If the jiggle ended in a E-flat note , they tried to match it to a song that started with a E-flat note....He said he drove one jock Tom Lynch crazy....Needless to say, it didn't last long......

Frank T
radio fan

 

[davideduardo]

If it's not overdone it's effective and entertaining...even those not in radio.

Nobody could say it better. Occasionally hitting the post is fine, especially if the song has a vapid or uninteresting intro. But doing that is just one of a number of ways of doing tight, flow enhancing segues. Overused, it annoys the listener.

 

[bossradiofan]

Robert W. was a master, not because he could talk up an intro, but because of his content - his wit and presentation. I met him only once, after his shift at KHJ. I was an L.A. City College kid interested in radio, and he helped me get my first gig at KMBY in Monterey, one of his first gigs. I've admired his work ever since, as many of us have.

I agree with so many of the comments on this topic. DavidEduardo, Haggerty, Tinadelgado and many of the others. I'll offer one comparison. I regard "talking up an intro" like an artist considers paint for his or her pallet: It's useful only if it enhances the experience for the listener.

Back in the '60's and '70's, Top 40 and CHR jocks (and some of their misguided PD's) used it so much, and so poorly, that it destroyed the listeners' experience. Further, misguided radio survey researchers (I was one of 'those' for the Frank N. Magid company) generalized listeners' dissatifaction ("I don't like DJ's talking over the music," for example) and completely eliminated the practice from some of their client stations. Clearly, an over-reaction.

So, my conclusion is this: Be an entertainer. If you choose to talk over the intro to the song, be sure that what you say is more valuable to the listener than the music itself. If it's not (and it seldom IS) leave it alone (but for calls or other format requirements.) And, anyone who talks more than :30 over music without stating a warning about the imminent nuclear attack, should be shot.

Sonny West and Gene Knight are both judicious, talented and sparing in the use of 'hitting the post.' Of course, the KyXy format prohibits it as a general practice. I worked with both of them a couple of years ago over there. (Sonny and I went to grad school together, too.) They 'get it.' Shotgun and I worked at KBEST 95 and he's wonderful, too. The Real Don Steele would be proud.

Have fun, folks. Be nice to people. It's the ENTERTAINMENT business, after all, whose purpose is to sell goods and services of the advertisers. Understand that, and everything else falls into place.

Ox

 

[skyrocker]

When I started in the unique club called Boss Radio, I was taught many "ways we
do things." I was proud to be thought of as professional enough to carry out
the tasks.

Within the Drake-Chenault consulted stations, were required to "hit the post"
because the format called for it. Actually, the instructions were to get it
said before the artist began singing or the song came to a major thematic
phrase (post).

About talking over records, the Boss Rule was: it better be good. The artists
on our playlists paid a lot of money employing big studios to record this
music, which is a hit; your bit better be a hit. Think it through; when in
doubt, don't.

In time, we just learned to perform the process well.

We found we could go much further than we imagined, including entire facets
of entertainment including, timing, teasing, inflections, emotional
energy, the list went on. We experimented and had much success.

Myself, working electron-microscopically close to the format, I found many "nooks,
crannies and cracks" within which to get off wisecracks, for which I have
a fondness. (Still do: Recently, the doctor's assistant gave me a small
plastic cylinder requesting a sample. When I emerged from the restroom, I caught
her eye and told her pleadingly, "I still have the urge to go. I'll need about
12 to 15 more of these vials." She laughed for about five minutes)

That infectious laughing just encourages me.

Keeping my chops up, I still do a little radio, now working with a station
that says, "Light Rock, Less Talk." And they mean it. When I'm on the air
these days I feel the same responsibility I did when working years ago at
Boss Radio: I am the station's presenter and feel I should do my best at
displaying things their way.

My station is what many might call a "background station," so I keep the
chatter to a minimum (and although my rule is no funny business, sometimes
KOIT listeners hear me sneak in the occasional wisecrack --subtly rather than
calling attention to them)

It's working; the station is consistently rated in San Francisco's top three.
Abd we talk over absolutely NO record intros.

 

[davideduardo]

When I started in the unique club called Boss Radio, I was taught many "ways we
do things." I was proud to be thought of as professional enough to carry out
the tasks.

Did you by any chance work with TR?

 

[Mike Sheridan]

If it's not overdone it's effective and entertaining...even those not in radio.

Nobody could say it better. Occasionally hitting the post is fine, especially if the song has a vapid or uninteresting intro. But doing that is just one of a number of ways of doing tight, flow enhancing segues. Overused, it annoys the listener.

Who decides what songs have a vapid or uninteresting intro? It's a judgement call, it might be interesting to me and not interesting to you.

We were always told not to talk over the music to keep the music at a good level and talk through the music so the listener could hear both. We were also told to mix it up and keep the listener guessing, never let them anticipate what you'll do next (within reason of course) . We were also told never to talk out of a jingle, let the message of the jingle sink in. That makes sense to me.

I think it all comes down to keeping things moving without doing talk for the sake of talk. Anyone who talks over a :30 intro is on an ego trip.

Now lets talk about stepping on the end of a song. I used appreciate jocks who let guitar end of Cherish by the Assocation play without talking all over it.

 

[davideduardo]

Who decides what songs have a vapid or uninteresting intro? It's a judgement call, it might be interesting to me and not interesting to you.

That is why there are good PDs who win and not so good ones who...

Knowing what songs can be talked over and to what point is part of a PDs and MDs job. Relaying to the talent the guidelines so that songs don't get squashed while at the same time imparting energy and fun to the format is not something everyone can do.

We were always told not to talk over the music to keep the music at a good level and talk through the music so the listener could hear both.

Told by whom? I never told any of my talent to do that, nor did I make such generalized instructions part of the format. I don't know anyone who did, either.

You have no idea how many times, going back to the 60's, I talked to listeners who wanted to know why the DJ "ruined the songs." The idea of a hot mix of voice and song recalls not so fond memories of pot whipping... the ugliest thing a jock ever learned to do. Listeners respond by saying STFU to these DJ obsessions that make radio nearly unlistenable.

We were also told to mix it up and keep the listener guessing, never let them anticipate what you'll do next (within reason of course)

In all my career, I have never heard a listener wonder about what a DJ will do next. Nobody cares.

We were also told never to talk out of a jingle, let the message of the jingle sink in. That makes sense to me.

Who told you that? It's a matter of style. Mike Joseph not only required some jingles to be talked out of, he sometimes did douuble jingles with the talk in between. And it sounded and still sounds good if done right. There are no rules so strict as you seem to think.

I think it all comes down to keeping things moving without doing talk for the sake of talk. Anyone who talks over a :30 intro is on an ego trip.

It's all situational. If the jock has something real to say, it may be OK. Most times, it is not. But a format that does not allow for exceptions is dry and monotonous.

I once heard Shotgun Tom on KCBQ do about 20 seconds over an intro that were inspiring. Makes up for the thousands of vapid intros over music that was better than the talk that I have heard.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Who decides what songs have a vapid or uninteresting intro? It's a judgement call, it might be interesting to me and not interesting to you.

That is why there are good PDs who win and not so good ones who...

Knowing what songs can be talked over and to what point is part of a PDs and MDs job. Relaying to the talent the guidelines so that songs don't get squashed while at the same time imparting energy and fun to the format is not something everyone can do.

Never have I ever seen a PD dictate what songs could be talked over and which ones couldn't, it opinion plain and simple.

We were always told not to talk over the music to keep the music at a good level and talk through the music so the listener could hear both.

Told by whom? I never told any of my talent to do that, nor did I make such generalized instructions part of the format. I don't know anyone who did, either.

Oh just some guy who worked at KLIF and went on the be group PD for Golden West.

You have no idea how many times, going back to the 60's, I talked to listeners who wanted to know why the DJ "ruined the songs." The idea of a hot mix of voice and song recalls not so fond memories of pot whipping... the ugliest thing a jock ever learned to do. Listeners respond by saying STFU to these DJ obsessions that make radio nearly unlistenable.

They also still say jocks talk to much even when they don't. I don't believe that the average listener always knows what they want to hear until they hear it. If they really wanted less talk why would there be any personalities on the radio?

We were also told to mix it up and keep the listener guessing, never let them anticipate what you'll do next (within reason of course)

In all my career, I have never heard a listener wonder about what a DJ will do next. Nobody cares.

No maybe not in words but the pattern gets into the subconsious.

We were also told never to talk out of a jingle, let the message of the jingle sink in. That makes sense to me.

Same PD as above, he must have known something.

Who told you that? It's a matter of style. Mike Joseph not only required some jingles to be talked out of, he sometimes did douuble jingles with the talk in between. And it sounded and still sounds good if done right. There are no rules so strict as you seem to think.

I think it all comes down to keeping things moving without doing talk for the sake of talk. Anyone who talks over a :30 intro is on an ego trip.

It's all situational. If the jock has something real to say, it may be OK. Most times, it is not. But a format that does not allow for exceptions is dry and monotonous.

I once heard Shotgun Tom on KCBQ do about 20 seconds over an intro that were inspiring. Makes up for the thousands of vapid intros over music that was better than the talk that I have heard.

But to use your own logic if people don't pay attention to what a jock is doing they are not going to be inspired and they are there to hear the music. I don't think you can have it both ways. If you need the music under you to help set up the bit then I guess it's okay otherwise if it's a really good bit you should have the freedom to stop the music for 20 seconds.

David we can argue formatics all day if you like but the long and short of it the PD I worked for made a station with very little power do some seemingly impossible things. He also made the station a fun place to work, treated everyone at the station with respect, and also was a fun, positive force. I don't need to drop names.