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Hollander's GREAT experiment, NOT.

P

pqgeorge

Well, so much for your GREAT experiment, JOEL. I'm DYING to see your "JACKass" profits. That little diatribe in The Chicago Sun-Times was rather funny. Your attitude leaves a lot to be desired. It's attitudes like yours' that are speeding up the total destruction of terrestrial radio. Three weeks ago, I would have never thought of going satellite. Surprise, Joel..... I bought a Sirius subscription two weeks ago because obviously, you have no gumption or give a damn about the listener. You took two great radio stations (WCBS-FM & WJMK) and imploded them for your GRAND experiment. We feel sorry about your personal issues (as your so aptly mentioned in the article), but there was no reason to put this kind of crap out on millions of die-hard listeners. Have a lot of fun, JOEL. Enjoy your toys in New York and Chicago. While I enjoy Cousin Brucie on Sirius!!! <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>
 
Not to defend Hollander - but Jack has been rockin' in just about every market its been introduced and delivering good demographics - meaning listeners advertisers want to appeal to.

And the more attention Jack gets in the press...either negative or positive - all invites the curious tune-in...all that may not like..but many that just might.

The truth is the oldies format has been in trouble with an aging audience. And pay-to-listen sources like Sirius may be your only alternative. Oldies may go the way of Big Band/Music of Your Life/Beautiful Music. I'm sure there were quite a few emotions expressed when FM 100/Chicago or WWEL-WLAK-WLIT/Chicago abandoned beautiful music for new formats too. Perhaps thats another generation that you might not get. Dunno.



> Well, so much for your GREAT experiment, JOEL. I'm DYING to
> see your "JACKass" profits. That little diatribe in The
> Chicago Sun-Times was rather funny. Your attitude leaves a
> lot to be desired. It's attitudes like yours' that are
> speeding up the total destruction of terrestrial radio.
> Three weeks ago, I would have never thought of going
> satellite. Surprise, Joel..... I bought a Sirius
> subscription two weeks ago because obviously, you have no
> gumption or give a damn about the listener. You took two
> great radio stations (WCBS-FM & WJMK) and imploded them for
> your GRAND experiment. We feel sorry about your personal
> issues (as your so aptly mentioned in the article), but
> there was no reason to put this kind of crap out on millions
> of die-hard listeners. Have a lot of fun, JOEL. Enjoy your
> toys in New York and Chicago. While I enjoy Cousin Brucie
> on Sirius!!!
>
 
It just seems like the oldies format died before it's time. Others might argue that it was overdue.

Speaking of "dying" formats... How does WFMT continue to survive with classical? Who is their target audience? I don't remember if they are commercial or non-commercial.



> Not to defend Hollander - but Jack has been rockin' in just
> about every market its been introduced and delivering good
> demographics - meaning listeners advertisers want to appeal
> to.
>
> And the more attention Jack gets in the press...either
> negative or positive - all invites the curious tune-in...all
> that may not like..but many that just might.
>
> The truth is the oldies format has been in trouble with an
> aging audience. And pay-to-listen sources like Sirius may
> be your only alternative. Oldies may go the way of Big
> Band/Music of Your Life/Beautiful Music. I'm sure there
> were quite a few emotions expressed when FM 100/Chicago or
> WWEL-WLAK-WLIT/Chicago abandoned beautiful music for new
> formats too. Perhaps thats another generation that you
> might not get. Dunno.
>
>
>
> > Well, so much for your GREAT experiment, JOEL. I'm DYING
> to
> > see your "JACKass" profits. That little diatribe in The
> > Chicago Sun-Times was rather funny. Your attitude leaves
> a
> > lot to be desired. It's attitudes like yours' that are
> > speeding up the total destruction of terrestrial radio.
> > Three weeks ago, I would have never thought of going
> > satellite. Surprise, Joel..... I bought a Sirius
> > subscription two weeks ago because obviously, you have no
> > gumption or give a damn about the listener. You took two
> > great radio stations (WCBS-FM & WJMK) and imploded them
> for
> > your GRAND experiment. We feel sorry about your personal
> > issues (as your so aptly mentioned in the article), but
> > there was no reason to put this kind of crap out on
> millions
> > of die-hard listeners. Have a lot of fun, JOEL. Enjoy
> your
> > toys in New York and Chicago. While I enjoy Cousin Brucie
>
> > on Sirius!!!
> >
>
 
> It just seems like the oldies format died before it's time.
> Others might argue that it was overdue.
>
> Speaking of "dying" formats... How does WFMT continue to
> survive with classical? Who is their target audience? I
> don't remember if they are commercial or non-commercial.
>
>
>
WFMT is non commercial. They are owned by Window To The World, same company that owns the local PBS affiliate WTTW-11. They run a couple of classical satellite services, one of which is carried on Wisconsin Public Radio's classical network (Heard here on WGTD Kenosha) and I believe WFMR Milwaukee (Milwaukee's longtime commercial classical station)


There was a commercial classical station (Chicago's top rated classical outlet) WNIB 97.1FM and WNIZ 96.9FM. WNIB came on in the mid 50s (Locally owned and operated) and WNIZ (Formerly WKZN) came on in the early 80s after they bought 96.9 to improve the signal to the north. Bill & Sonia (The owners) decided to retire in early 2001 so both were sold off to Bonneville. 96.9 immediately became a simmulcast of WTMX as WTNX and 97.1 stunted and that led to The Drive. At the same time 100.3 went to 80s & 90s in December 2002, 96.9 started stunting and joined 97.1 once again in simmulcast in January 2003.

Don't know how well WNIB/WNIZ billed, but they were for sure the top rated classical station in the market until Bill & Sonia retired.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Speaking of "dying" formats... How does WFMT continue to
> survive with classical? Who is their target audience? I
> don't remember if they are commercial or non-commercial.
>

Keep in mind that people who are passionate about the station and format tend to have some cash. They can afford to drop a few bucks to keep the station alive.
 
Though I haven't listened in years, I recall WFMT being commercial back
in the 70s...but with very high standards for commercial copy - with every commercial being read live by the announcer on duty. When WXRT launched as a progressive rocker (in the very early John Platt/Seth Mason days), they initially did the same - taking after the WFMT "pure" approach.

WFMT continued this after acquisition by WTTW...a commercial station owned by a non-com organization. I believe they continue this today, although it may be a combination of ad dollars and listener donations.

See http://www.wfmt.com/about/sponsors.html






> > It just seems like the oldies format died before it's
> time.
> > Others might argue that it was overdue.
> >
> > Speaking of "dying" formats... How does WFMT continue to
> > survive with classical? Who is their target audience? I
> > don't remember if they are commercial or non-commercial.
>
> >
> >
> >
> WFMT is non commercial. They are owned by Window To The
> World, same company that owns the local PBS affiliate
> WTTW-11. They run a couple of classical satellite services,
> one of which is carried on Wisconsin Public Radio's
> classical network (Heard here on WGTD Kenosha) and I believe
> WFMR Milwaukee (Milwaukee's longtime commercial classical
> station)
>
>
> There was a commercial classical station (Chicago's top
> rated classical outlet) WNIB 97.1FM and WNIZ 96.9FM. WNIB
> came on in the mid 50s (Locally owned and operated) and WNIZ
> (Formerly WKZN) came on in the early 80s after they bought
> 96.9 to improve the signal to the north. Bill & Sonia (The
> owners) decided to retire in early 2001 so both were sold
> off to Bonneville. 96.9 immediately became a simmulcast of
> WTMX as WTNX and 97.1 stunted and that led to The Drive. At
> the same time 100.3 went to 80s & 90s in December 2002, 96.9
> started stunting and joined 97.1 once again in simmulcast in
> January 2003.
>
> Don't know how well WNIB/WNIZ billed, but they were for sure
> the top rated classical station in the market until Bill &
> Sonia retired.
>
 
> WFMT is non commercial. They are owned by Window To The
> World, same company that owns the local PBS affiliate
> WTTW-11. They run a couple of classical satellite services,
> one of which is carried on Wisconsin Public Radio's
> classical network (Heard here on WGTD Kenosha) and I believe
> WFMR Milwaukee (Milwaukee's longtime commercial classical
> station)

I believe WFMR is locally programmed in Milwaukee.

-A<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> Well, so much for your GREAT experiment, JOEL. I'm DYING to
> see your "JACKass" profits. That little diatribe in The
> Chicago Sun-Times was rather funny. Your attitude leaves a
> lot to be desired. It's attitudes like yours' that are
> speeding up the total destruction of terrestrial radio.
> Three weeks ago, I would have never thought of going
> satellite. Surprise, Joel..... I bought a Sirius
> subscription two weeks ago because obviously, you have no
> gumption or give a damn about the listener. You took two
> great radio stations (WCBS-FM & WJMK) and imploded them for
> your GRAND experiment. We feel sorry about your personal
> issues (as your so aptly mentioned in the article), but
> there was no reason to put this kind of crap out on millions
> of die-hard listeners. Have a lot of fun, JOEL. Enjoy your
> toys in New York and Chicago. While I enjoy Cousin Brucie
> on Sirius!!!
>



When Infinity does not receive the revenue they expect to gain from Jack and I don't think they will, Joel Hollander will treat those people the same way he did in the case of oldies in New York and Chicago.

Good luck, Joel. you will need it.
 
> Though I haven't listened in years, I recall WFMT being
> commercial back
> in the 70s...but with very high standards for commercial
> copy - with every commercial being read live by the
> announcer on duty. When WXRT launched as a progressive
> rocker (in the very early John Platt/Seth Mason days), they
> initially did the same - taking after the WFMT "pure"
> approach.
>
> WFMT continued this after acquisition by WTTW...a commercial
> station owned by a non-com organization. I believe they
> continue this today, although it may be a combination of ad
> dollars and listener donations.
>
> See http://www.wfmt.com/about/sponsors.html
>
>>> If WTTW is in such financial dire why not just sell a few
commercial spots here and there as WFMT does. I think the
viewers will understand.
>
>
>
>
> > > It just seems like the oldies format died before it's
> > time.
> > > Others might argue that it was overdue.
> > >
> > > Speaking of "dying" formats... How does WFMT continue to
>
> > > survive with classical? Who is their target audience?
> I
> > > don't remember if they are commercial or non-commercial.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > WFMT is non commercial. They are owned by Window To The
> > World, same company that owns the local PBS affiliate
> > WTTW-11. They run a couple of classical satellite
> services,
> > one of which is carried on Wisconsin Public Radio's
> > classical network (Heard here on WGTD Kenosha) and I
> believe
> > WFMR Milwaukee (Milwaukee's longtime commercial classical
> > station)
> >
> >
> > There was a commercial classical station (Chicago's top
> > rated classical outlet) WNIB 97.1FM and WNIZ 96.9FM. WNIB
> > came on in the mid 50s (Locally owned and operated) and
> WNIZ
> > (Formerly WKZN) came on in the early 80s after they bought
>
> > 96.9 to improve the signal to the north. Bill & Sonia (The
>
> > owners) decided to retire in early 2001 so both were sold
> > off to Bonneville. 96.9 immediately became a simmulcast of
>
> > WTMX as WTNX and 97.1 stunted and that led to The Drive.
> At
> > the same time 100.3 went to 80s & 90s in December 2002,
> 96.9
> > started stunting and joined 97.1 once again in simmulcast
> in
> > January 2003.
> >
> > Don't know how well WNIB/WNIZ billed, but they were for
> sure
> > the top rated classical station in the market until Bill &
>
> > Sonia retired.
> >
>
 
> > WFMT is non commercial. They are owned by Window To The
> > World, same company that owns the local PBS affiliate
> > WTTW-11. They run a couple of classical satellite
> services,
> > one of which is carried on Wisconsin Public Radio's
> > classical network (Heard here on WGTD Kenosha) and I
> believe
> > WFMR Milwaukee (Milwaukee's longtime commercial classical
> > station)
>
> I believe WFMR is locally programmed in Milwaukee.
>
> -A
>

I used to listen to WFMR run whatever satellite service that was during the overnight shift.
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
WFMT is commercial, always has been, though they also solicit donations. It actually started as a Tribune property, WGN's FM sister, but they gave it to non-commercial WTTW way back in the 50's because "FM's not going anywhere." It's Chicago's most powerful FM signal--6,000 watts from Sears, while most everyone else up there is at about 4,200 watts--grandfathered from the WGN days. And when they and WNIB were both in the format, if memory serves me correctly, WFMT usually was higher-rated.
 
> Though I haven't listened in years, I recall WFMT being
> commercial back
> in the 70s...but with very high standards for commercial
> copy - with every commercial being read live by the
> announcer on duty. When WXRT launched as a progressive
> rocker (in the very early John Platt/Seth Mason days), they
> initially did the same - taking after the WFMT "pure"
> approach.
>
> WFMT continued this after acquisition by WTTW...a commercial
> station owned by a non-com organization. I believe they
> continue this today, although it may be a combination of ad
> dollars and listener donations.
>
> See http://www.wfmt.com/about/sponsors.html

That's exactly how it is.

Before I go on, let me mention that in the new Reader that will be out later today or tomorrow (and may be online in PDF form tomorrow at www.chicagoreader.com), Deanna Isaacs' The Business column has a good capsule history of 'FMT's ownership as part of an interesting article on the status of the station and the WFMT Fine Arts Network syndication operation.

The fund-raising began in the early 90s after some very stormy years for WFMT. After letting GM Ray Norstrand and PD Norm Pellegrini run the station autonomously off of the profits of Chicago magazine for years, WTTW sold Chicago and took away the cash cow. They then ordered the all-live-spots policy pulled (and Jay Andres hired away from 'NIB for morning drive, and the screaming started from the "citizens' groups" of "Sell out!" and "Dumbing down!" A few years later, as Norstrand and Pellegrini were eased out and WTTW took over control, they returned to the all-live-spots policy, with the fund-raising. At the time, the listener donations were said to cover the losses of revenue from returning to all-live-spots and to pay for spoken word programming that advertisers were less interested in.

However, with the return to all-live-spots, some of their copy standards got loosened. Although the copy still doesn't refer to sponsors as "we" (it's always "they"), some supleratives like "fabulous" and "amazing" that used to be not allowed do sneak in. More notably, phone numbers can now be repeated in spots, something that used to be banned under the assumption that their audience was so intelligent they only needed to hear the number once (it also cut off those spots that repeat phone numbers over and over and over...).
 
>
> >
> >>> If WTTW is in such financial dire why not just sell a
> few
> commercial spots here and there as WFMT does. I think the
>
> viewers will understand.
> >
WTTW is non commercial.
> >
> >
> > >
 
As I recall, WFMT usually beat WNIB through the mid to late 70s.'
But after that, it was usually WNIB on top in the classical wars.



> WFMT is commercial, always has been, though they also
> solicit donations. It actually started as a Tribune
> property, WGN's FM sister, but they gave it to
> non-commercial WTTW way back in the 50's because "FM's not
> going anywhere." It's Chicago's most powerful FM
> signal--6,000 watts from Sears, while most everyone else up
> there is at about 4,200 watts--grandfathered from the WGN
> days. And when they and WNIB were both in the format, if
> memory serves me correctly, WFMT usually was higher-rated.
>
 
<font color=3333ff>He's a putz and he looks like weasel. Could have simply blew up WCKG and there would have been no mess like this. Can't wait for it to bite Infinity bad.
</font>

> Well, so much for your GREAT experiment, JOEL. I'm DYING to
> see your "JACKass" profits. That little diatribe in The
> Chicago Sun-Times was rather funny. Your attitude leaves a
> lot to be desired. It's attitudes like yours' that are
> speeding up the total destruction of terrestrial radio.
> Three weeks ago, I would have never thought of going
> satellite. Surprise, Joel..... I bought a Sirius
> subscription two weeks ago because obviously, you have no
> gumption or give a damn about the listener. You took two
> great radio stations (WCBS-FM & WJMK) and imploded them for
> your GRAND experiment. We feel sorry about your personal
> issues (as your so aptly mentioned in the article), but
> there was no reason to put this kind of crap out on millions
> of die-hard listeners. Have a lot of fun, JOEL. Enjoy your
> toys in New York and Chicago. While I enjoy Cousin Brucie
> on Sirius!!!
>
 
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