Honest opinions on standards networks

[Whiplash]

Dial Global, MOYL or any others. Which do all of you think are the best. Are their any I'm missing? I'm exploring which way to go with one of the stations I own! Thanks in advance!

 

[Chuck]

I think you are better off "rolling your own." You can start out with a simple automation system and about 1000 songs that everyone can agree on. Add local PSA's, local interest features, liners, etc, add a few custom jingles from Ben Freedman or Jam and you can have something that sounds decent for only a small investment. You can have a light spot load since you get all the sales and don't need to have 5 minute stop-sets for someone elses commercials.

Another service you might check is "Forever Cool," if you want to go the satellite route...

 

[Whiplash]

You mean't Timeless Cool? I'd like more opinions, please!

 

[Chuck]

You mean't Timeless Cool? I'd like more opinions, please!

Yes. That's what I get for writing while I'm running a fever.

I still think you are better off doing it yourself. That's what I do, and it has worked well for us. www.kzqx.com if you want to listen. I really don't care for any of the sat. versions I've heard. Obviously some people do though...

 

[ChrisInMI]

Of the satellite formats available I personally like Dial Global's best. I do wish they'd play more of the '40s/'50s "original hits" than they do and they make some playlist choices that are questionable ("Physical" by Olivia Newton-John??? Just because she was one of the most successful female artists ever on the AC/EZ charts, doesn't mean ALL of her songs will fit the format...). But I enjoy their personalities and for the most part the music mix is pleasing to me, although I also feel they could expand it a little more. (i.e. "Tennessee Waltz" was not the only song Patti Page ever recorded.)

The last time I heard Music of Your Life it had one of the strangest music mixes I've ever heard. A lot of obscure non-hit cover versions (i.e. "Come On-A My House" done by Julie London and not Rosemary Clooney) with a scattering of chart oldies and some not-quite-hits (just about drove off the road when they played "Your Love Is King" by Sade... I love Sade, but to hear a song of hers that wasn't a U.S. Top 40 hit played on a standards station was a little strange). I liked the music of course but found it very unfocused. This was a while ago and I understand the music mix has been updated somewhat (haven't had the opportunity to listen). Go to their website, give it a listen and see what you think.

The only other satellite format I can think of is Dial Global Local's "The Lounge" which seems to be extremely heavy on the '80s AC cuts. While I like the music I think they should try to market it as something other than "standards" - it honestly sounds to me like Citadel's Timeless Favorites did in its final months, except they play more of the Rat Pack and some contemporary standards that Timeless did not.

Speaking of "running your own"... check this out: http://www.wiosradio.com. This is a little station in Tawas City, Michigan, that dayparts between standards and talk, and they "run their own" for the music portion (albeit automated). There's a list of the songs they play on the web site and there are over 3600 titles listed, ranging from music of the '30s (Boswell Sisters) to Michael Buble and Susan Boyle, and lots of big band and country classics. Again, a very odd mix... but I feel that's one of its charms.

 

[Lease-a-Mona]

None of what’s out there is as consistent as it ought to be. They get it right sometimes then wander off the road. Probably programmed by kids who didn’t live the era the music is from. If you know the music and your audience you’re better off doing your own. Get some tapes of KIXI-880 in Seattle circa 1996-97. They did there own and were the best I ever heard with great ratings as well until they lost their way around 2000-2001. Then they went with MOYL five or six years ago and put everyone to sleep.

 

[hornet61]

That's the beauty of programming adult standards/e-Z listening....it's the concept, the sound , the feel........not the chronological history......... susan boyle and michael buble mixed in with martha tilton and kitty kallen, is not a train wreck , but creative programming.

one writer called Julie London's version of Come-On to-My-House an obscure non-hit, obviously not familiar with the Capitol "Ultra-Lounge series"......these stations feature huge libraries and problably also play the Rosie clooney version, and maybe even the Bette Midler version in duet with Rosie Clooney. sade is a very talented singer with a very( easy sound) listeners of this format enjoy good music and don't restrict it to a time clock...one of the most popular break-outs a few years back was 16 years old Renee olstead, her style was right out of the peggy lee and julie london era...but its a contempoary artist, that doesn't make her out of place. The fact that sade was programmed just tells me that the programmer added of smattering of modern smooth jazz with the format, hey what was basie, ellingington , horne if not jazz and certainly a part of the library. Why is Michael Buble such a hit.. the style, the feel, the concept...why did Rod Stewart score so big with his series...the style, the feel, the concept.....if mixed properly 1930 to 2011 can be pulled off with out a hot-tub time machine.
with those huge libraries , multi music pools allows you to create a smooth balanced sound and do some real creative programming. This format allows the most flexibilty for a real creative programmer like the legendary George Wilson...he has done wonders with this format.

 

[Talk_Dude]

I think you are better off "rolling your own." You can start out with a simple automation system and about 1000 songs that everyone can agree on. Add local PSA's, local interest features, liners, etc, add a few custom jingles from Ben Freedman or Jam and you can have something that sounds decent for only a small investment. You can have a light spot load since you get all the sales and don't need to have 5 minute stop-sets for someone elses commercials.

Another service you might check is "Forever Cool," if you want to go the satellite route...

That's the best advice I've read in here in a long, long time.

That's the beauty of programming adult standards/e-Z listening....it's the concept, the sound , the feel........not the chronological history......... susan boyle and michael buble mixed in with martha tilton and kitty kallen, is not a train wreck , but creative programming.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

If I were forced to go with one of the satellite networks, it would be Timeless Cool first, Dial Global second, and MOYL third, mostly because of my tastes in the music mix. Timeless Cool doesn't have great production or even good jocks, and some purists would say that they aren't really doing standards. They'll spin a few new artists, like Jack Johnson, once in a while. But you won't be left wondering why they're playing James Brown.

I don't have much feedback on DG because there's no local affiliate. When I've listened, its been OK.

MOYL seems like it has the deepest playlist, which for someone like me who didn't grow up in the 60s or 70s, means there's a lot of music I've never heard. Worse, there's a lot of music I don't care to hear again.

 

[hornet61]

I think you are better off "rolling your own." You can start out with a simple automation system and about 1000 songs that everyone can agree on. Add local PSA's, local interest features, liners, etc, add a few custom jingles from Ben Freedman or Jam and you can have something that sounds decent for only a small investment. You can have a light spot load since you get all the sales and don't need to have 5 minute stop-sets for someone elses commercials.

Another service you might check is "Forever Cool," if you want to go the satellite route...

That's the best advice I've read in here in a long, long time.

That's the beauty of programming adult standards/e-Z listening....it's the concept, the sound , the feel........not the chronological history......... susan boyle and michael buble mixed in with martha tilton and kitty kallen, is not a train wreck , but creative programming.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

now you are mixing apples and oranges........

 

[Talk_Dude]

I think you are better off "rolling your own." You can start out with a simple automation system and about 1000 songs that everyone can agree on. Add local PSA's, local interest features, liners, etc, add a few custom jingles from Ben Freedman or Jam and you can have something that sounds decent for only a small investment. You can have a light spot load since you get all the sales and don't need to have 5 minute stop-sets for someone elses commercials.

Another service you might check is "Forever Cool," if you want to go the satellite route...

That's the best advice I've read in here in a long, long time.

That's the beauty of programming adult standards/e-Z listening....it's the concept, the sound , the feel........not the chronological history......... susan boyle and michael buble mixed in with martha tilton and kitty kallen, is not a train wreck , but creative programming.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

now you are mixing apples and oranges........

Not really. There's no bona-fide reason that any other genre dedicated to "vintage" sounding music couldn't be programmed based only on whether or not the music sounds right for the station. It's just lazy programmers who substitute looking at release dates to pick songs instead of actually listening to the music who make release dates an issue.

 

[hornet61]

I think you are better off "rolling your own." You can start out with a simple automation system and about 1000 songs that everyone can agree on. Add local PSA's, local interest features, liners, etc, add a few custom jingles from Ben Freedman or Jam and you can have something that sounds decent for only a small investment. You can have a light spot load since you get all the sales and don't need to have 5 minute stop-sets for someone elses commercials.

Another service you might check is "Forever Cool," if you want to go the satellite route...

That's the best advice I've read in here in a long, long time.

That's the beauty of programming adult standards/e-Z listening....it's the concept, the sound , the feel........not the chronological history......... susan boyle and michael buble mixed in with martha tilton and kitty kallen, is not a train wreck , but creative programming.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

That's another piece of profound wisdom, which is also true about every other genre of music that's played on the radio.

now you are mixing apples and oranges........

Not really. There's no bona-fide reason that any other genre dedicated to "vintage" sounding music couldn't be programmed based only on whether or not the music sounds right for the station. It's just lazy programmers who substitute looking at release dates to pick songs instead of actually listening to the music who make release dates an issue.

OK, I think maybe we are on the same page here...my comments apply to "vintage sounding music" , certainly not to say, a chr format, or any format driven by current charts

yes maybe some lazy programmers, but some of them might have "backed into the the job".."in-house promotion" due to attrition, and are too young to know and understand the music and the demo. their definition of demo taste, is driven by sales. And there are some good programmers out there , but just don't want to break out of the mold that to be honest...40 years later the mold is getting pretty MOLDY..... alot of historical rethoric is always thrown out immediately when someone mentions large libraries and how they fail....it's easy to program the safe 400 songs and not screw it up....... But programmers , especially on the net (yes, i've heard the arguement ,the net has no income,I think the net is a good proving ground for programmers)are going to big libraries and are being very creative..it's tough to program a big library..until you figure out by trial and error it's not that hard ...when you go to multiple music pools 3-4 maybe more ,by decade to achieve a good balance of the TOP 40 and the Lower 40...with big libraries balance is the key to listener success and listeners bring ratings and rating bring advertisers.
Anyone and I mean anyone can take any automated sytem and program 400 songs safely, even the ones that prefer bananas as a means of payment, you know, his former employer was an orgran grinder. Yes, I've heard others have tried big libraries and failed, that's because they tried to program 3,000 cuts like they program 400, ain't gonna happen. Well now I did it again, I have opened the dreaded programming Pandora's Box...

 

[Talk_Dude]

Anyone and I mean anyone can take any automated sytem and program 400 songs safely, even the ones that prefer bananas as a means of payment, you know, his former employer was an orgran grinder. Yes, I've heard others have tried big libraries and failed, that's because they tried to program 3,000 cuts like they program 400, ain't gonna happen. Well now I did it again, I have opened the dreaded programming Pandora's Box...

I hear you. Looking at someone who buys a radio station, hooks it to a satellite, and then sells airtime and makes money at it from the perspective of a businessman who respects anyone who can make a buck, I respect and admire such people. But, looking at it from the perspective of someone who cares about quality in broadcasting, and sees the value to a community of a good, local station that actually treats the local listeners as something more than 'marks' to be exploited, my opinion changes.

I think you're right about how programming a big library has to be done correctly, which means differently from programming a small library. A genuinely local station with a dedicated manager who is in touch with what his specific audience wants should have a better chance of success with a bigger library of music available to him, so long as he works hard at picking the right songs.

Of course, no one can devote full attention to every aspect of any business. Some aspects of the business always have to be delegated. I can't fault anyone who delegates decisions about the product to specialists while he concentrates on the sales and marketing, unless it's a station that I can pick up on my radio and the person picking the music picks crap.

 

[Whiplash]

And he knows because he owned and ran SO many radio stations.

 

[Talk_Dude]

And he knows because he owned and ran SO many radio stations.

I have owned and ran as many radio stations as the late Myron Cope and Howard Cosell played downs of professional football, combined.

I have owned and ran as many radio stations as the combined total of major motion pictures that Siskel, Ebert, and 37 other leading film critics made.

I would also point out that most of the top executives in most of the major broadcasting companies have run radio stations as employees of someone else, but not as actual station owners themselves.

 

[bobperry]

In creating The Penthouse, we wanted a concept and feel and not a time machine. We present a mix of standards, instrumentals and even some big band without dragging in the MOR/AC tracks that many programmers feel they need to add to "make it younger". The original client meeting pitch was simple: "Starbucks radio". Starting in 1983, when I got a copy of Linda Ronstadt's "What's New?" with Nelson Riddle while programming one of Al Ham's first MOYL affiliates (WAVZ/New Haven), I knew then that it represented the future of the format.

Today, we have a number of excellent artists who are creating new versions of standards. Some are artists like Ronstadt or Rod Stewart, who made their mark in pop/rock hits, have broaden their horizons as they aged and their library of hits became "oldies". Other artists have embraced jazz standards as their home from the beginning - Michael Bublé, Diana Krall, John Pizzarelli, Renee Olstead are but a few of the rising stars.

As radio narrows the music choices on the dial to a vanilla mix of CHR, AC and Country, they have pushed potential audience to iPods, satellite and the Internet in search of something they want to hear. The smart owner/manager of a station that is the fourth or fifth signal in the market playing the same AC songs or yet another classic rocker should examine the alternative of a well-programmed standards format.

It is the difference between a football team that keeps trying to gain yardage by running directly up the middle of the field and one that finds open running room where the other side isn't.


Bob Perry
ThePenthouse.fm

 

[hornet61]

Anyone and I mean anyone can take any automated sytem and program 400 songs safely, even the ones that prefer bananas as a means of payment, you know, his former employer was an orgran grinder. Yes, I've heard others have tried big libraries and failed, that's because they tried to program 3,000 cuts like they program 400, ain't gonna happen. Well now I did it again, I have opened the dreaded programming Pandora's Box...

I hear you. Looking at someone who buys a radio station, hooks it to a satellite, and then sells airtime and makes money at it from the perspective of a businessman who respects anyone who can make a buck, I respect and admire such people. But, looking at it from the perspective of someone who cares about quality in broadcasting, and sees the value to a community of a good, local station that actually treats the local listeners as something more than 'marks' to be exploited, my opinion changes.

I think you're right about how programming a big library has to be done correctly, which means differently from programming a small library. A genuinely local station with a dedicated manager who is in touch with what his specific audience wants should have a better chance of success with a bigger library of music available to him, so long as he works hard at picking the right songs.

Of course, no one can devote full attention to every aspect of any business. Some aspects of the business always have to be delegated. I can't fault anyone who delegates decisions about the product to specialists while he concentrates on the sales and marketing, unless it's a station that I can pick up on my radio and the person picking the music picks crap.

amen

 

[hornet61]

In creating The Penthouse, we wanted a concept and feel and not a time machine. We present a mix of standards, instrumentals and even some big band without dragging in the MOR/AC tracks that many programmers feel they need to add to "make it younger". The original client meeting pitch was simple: "Starbucks radio". Starting in 1983, when I got a copy of Linda Ronstadt's "What's New?" with Nelson Riddle while programming one of Al Ham's first MOYL affiliates (WAVZ/New Haven), I knew then that it represented the future of the format.

Today, we have a number of excellent artists who are creating new versions of standards. Some are artists like Ronstadt or Rod Stewart, who made their mark in pop/rock hits, have broaden their horizons as they aged and their library of hits became "oldies". Other artists have embraced jazz standards as their home from the beginning - Michael Bublé, Diana Krall, John Pizzarelli, Renee Olstead are but a few of the rising stars.

As radio narrows the music choices on the dial to a vanilla mix of CHR, AC and Country, they have pushed potential audience to iPods, satellite and the Internet in search of something they want to hear. The smart owner/manager of a station that is the fourth or fifth signal in the market playing the same AC songs or yet another classic rocker should examine the alternative of a well-programmed standards format.

It is the difference between a football team that keeps trying to gain yardage by running directly up the middle of the field and one that finds open running room where the other side isn't.


Bob Perry
ThePenthouse.fm

Absolutely, well said, yours is the creative progarmming i'm talking about.....The Rondstadt/Riddle series, Nathalie Cole "Unforgetable" LP are a couple of the retro-standards LP's that created a re-newed interest in the standards genre and introducing a whole new generation to this great music....then came Harry Connick , Peter Cincotti,Manhattan Transfer and Michel Civisca...followed by the Sensation Michael Buble, Barry Manilow had a sweet Big Band CD, and the very successful Stewart songbooks. Even Country Stars got on the bandwagon..Ronnie Milsap has a super standards CD and Martina McBride, Lorrie Moragn , Crystal Gayle and Alan Jackson were inspired to do Countrty Tribute Lp's of the Early Stars of The Grand Ole Opry. In the mid -90's a Nouveau Swing craze hit with Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Royal Crown Revue, Cherrie Poppin Daddies and the Brian Setzer Orchestra. There is a big demographic of young and old that are hep to this music and are hungry for this format.

 

[Talk_Dude]

There is another advantage to a "standards" based network, especially if it was a real network. Such a network could revive one of the better things that used to be common on the radio prior to the rise of the DJ era in the 1950's, the live variety program. It wouldn't be difficult for a network that carried standards to carry a live variety show from the stage of a venue in Vegas, Branson, or Atlantic City on a weekly basis. Such shows are already mounted regularly, and already pay for themselves through ticket sales. It's simply an issue of patching off of the venue's sound system to go to go over the air, assuming the union issues could be resolved, of course. Think of it as the Grand Old Opry for lounge-lizard music.

An alternative would be for all performers who work in the lounge music genre to record some of their songs that they do in their live shows for editing into a virtual "live concert". That could become a regularly scheduled show that people look forward to like the Grand Old Opry or Prairie Home Companion. Individual songs from the show could even be used as occasional songs on the play list.

Such a show would take advantage of the fact that in the world of musical "standards", the songs are the "hits", not the specific recordings. What makes a standard a "standard" is that the songs are so frequently performed by a large number of different artists. It wouldn't work on a format that was based on nothing but a small list of hit studio records, but it should go over great with fans of standards music.

 

[bobperry]

We've actually done several of these in some tony places like Feinstein's and Iridium in NYC. We worked injunction with the artist and venue for a product that sounded excellent on the air.

Bob Perry
The Penthouse/NY