Hot 107.1 Denver is no more

[Morpheux]

....stunting as of this afternoon.

 

[TonySantiago]

Right now, they are playing marijuana themed music as "Pot 107.1" until they get a new format on.

As I always say when it comes to this, a loss of a radio station is a loss for dance music as a whole.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

That Sucks. .. Hot 107.1 was a true real edm station....

 

[Alan_Freed]

Too bad the station didn't get this much attention before today.

I heard the station's dance music format a few times while in the city…the signal was good but the music seemed too abrasive and underground for even minimally successful commercial numbers. I'm the last person to criticize new ideas and something different - Hell, maybe it was appropriate for Denver - D is a good dance music/EDM city - but I think the station didn't play dance music (real, mass-appeal dance music, not what CHR trumpets as dance) that would have appealed to a larger audience (both dance fans and not-yet-fans who would've liked it). Instead of taking the normal U.S. path of "dance music" radio by playing cheesy, watered-down (non-)dance, it went too far in the opposite direction, instead selecting too many harder sounds like really harsh dubstep, material that appealed to a narrow base. I am not surprised by the format's execution due to the way it was executed during its short eight months.

Another fail for the format. A shame…it just never is done right here in the states the few times it gets a chance. We keep hearing in mainstream media about how big dance music/EDM is lately yet it's not reflected on FM. If it was done properly in the right markets it would be successful. Sorry, Denver. Back to your PMPs and the Internet.

 

[DJ_Perry]

it went too far in the opposite direction,....like really harsh dubstep, material that appealed to a narrow base.

Lesson learned! I knew there was a reason I don't play it

 

[Mid West Clubber]

I dont play it either unless I have a DJ on that spins it,,, Most Dubstep is just noise to me,, though ive tested it, thinking the younger audience might like it,,, They seem to like Skrillex,,, but not the other stuff... I think Dubstep is starting to die anyway... and I hope it does

 

[Morpheux]

This is not about dubstep guys.It's much larger than that.

It's about how do we get a dance station to be successful on terrestrial radio?

Is it really viable in the PPM era where mass appeal is the name of the game?

I tend to think that dance by itself is just not mass appeal at least here in the states. Take a look at the top songs on CHR radio and you probably will cringe on how much you hear it even though you might not even listen to CHR. Think about it. How many people know about "Call me baby", "Gangnam Style" etc. How many parodies and memes have you seen regarding these songs? That's what mass appeal is. Do we really want dance to go down this route?

 

[Groove1670]

That's what mass appeal is. Do we really want dance to go down this route?

This argument has been going on for the last 40 years. EDM, Active rock, Misc. formats (for the most part) have never gained traction.

Over the past decades, pure disco, free form rock, the so called martini formats, smooth jazz...etc. Have had a loyal following, but not enough to produce large revenue and ratings. (please don't post stations that are exceptions, we know some exist).

And yes, some specialty shows (that are on late nights or weekends) will have a sponsor or two.

If you put a group of radio listeners in a room and ask them to choose between a EDM song or something in current rotation on their favorite station, the latter will win.

 

[DJ_Perry]

My only point is, perhaps it is Not such a good idea to include certain types of EDM. It's not always about keeping it real (even though I hardly consider Dub as EDM), but rather attempt playing what works. There are plenty of "middle of the road" tracks out that appeal to both mainstream and Dance fans. Even if it means digging up some gold stuff. That's my formula anyway.

 

[TonySantiago]

This is not about dubstep guys.It's much larger than that.

It's about how do we get a dance station to be successful on terrestrial radio?

Is it really viable in the PPM era where mass appeal is the name of the game?

I tend to think that dance by itself is just not mass appeal at least here in the states. Take a look at the top songs on CHR radio and you probably will cringe on how much you hear it even though you might not even listen to CHR. Think about it. How many people know about "Call me baby", "Gangnam Style" etc. How many parodies and memes have you seen regarding these songs? That's what mass appeal is. Do we really want dance to go down this route?

AGREED! That's the big picture.

Here's the issue. The reality is that there are less core fans of the music in this country than there are those that would be classified as "casual" or "newbies". And as much as those that are core cringe to stuff like "Gangnam Style" or anything Flo Rida, that is what the casual listener knows. Love or hate "Gangnam Style", it's huge, just like any sort of new dance craze that comes out (Remember "Macarena?" lol) Yet if we put on something more towards our end, or in the case of dubstep, something by Skrillex or Knife Party, that turns off those casual fans because it's too "complex" for them.

As much as those of us also cringe at these R&B/Rhythmic artists going dance like Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Chris Brown, etc. fact of the matter is WE DO NEED THEM. If that can open people up to eventually expand to artists such as Nadia Ali, Jonathan Mendelsohn, Kim Sozzi, etc. then that's what needs to be done somehow. And once that expansion can happen, then we can go to some deeper aspects of dance (meaning house, certain EDM and yes dubstep - though for the latter I think specialty shows are the best route and I've said it before, dubstep seems good for an altern rock format than dance.)

Is this "selling out". YEAH, regrettably. But then again, are we going anywhere at this rate? Not really. My local fear is Drive FX in the Hudson Valley, NY region going off the air because formatically they are similar to what Hot 107.1 was. And they have NO on-air talent with minimal identification of tracks. Add TO the fact that radio is leaning "spoken word" on the FM, then you can forget a format like dance.

Honestly, I wish there were more college/non-commercial stations that would open up to dance as a format, like Brett has with Z-88.9 and C89.5 in Seattle. I'm not kissing butt here to Brett or anyone on this but that's really the only way our format on FM can exist, especially in this bad economy. The negative side on it though is that since college loves to be extreme on alternative tastes, some of these stations may be like Hot 107.1 where it is ultra EDM with dubstep.

I dunno........

 

[Morpheux]

My only point is, perhaps it is Not such a good idea to include certain types of EDM. It's not always about keeping it real (even though I hardly consider Dub as EDM), but rather attempt playing what works. There are plenty of "middle of the road" tracks out that appeal to both mainstream and Dance fans. Even if it means digging up some gold stuff. That's my formula anyway.

That's exactly what I have been saying on the NY board. You have to go deeper into the library and play songs that are well known that brings a good reaction from the audience. Play songs that are proven to be very likeable in your market. Even if it means going back 10-15 years.Throwbacks work well with CHR's. Just keep it to a minimal.Play recurrents and dance songs that take a while to crossover into mainstream. That is what mass appeal is all about.

 

[DJ_Perry]

I knew there was somebody out there who understands! 8)

 

[Alan_Freed]

Hello Tony, Perry, Morpheux, et al. There are a dozen ways to do dance music on broadcast media, depending on the target audience and goal of the operator.

That said, I don't believe that R&B, rap and CHR product is necessary on a dance music/EDM format. That material *can* be included, as I explained, depending on the strategy.

What people appear to forget or choose to ignore is that there is plenty of poppy, hooky music that is dance/EDM at its core that could be CHR material if CHR wished to deem it so. The politics of the music business and FM radio seem to prevent that from happening. A mainstream FM dance/EDM station can easily exist on a diet of current material like Armin van Buuren, Nadia Ali, BT, Swedish House Mafia, Tiesto, Deadmau5, Ferry Corsten, Kaskade, Above & Beyond, Jes, Avicii, Wolfgang Gartner, Robbie Rivera, Sander van Doorn, even Skrillex's "Bangarang," though the vast majority of dubstep (since it came up) is too divisive for general mainstream rotation play. (Dubstep would more appropriately find a place on a dance format programmed to lean alternative. Speaking of alternative radio, while not dubstep, Deadmau5's "Professional Griefers" is played by KROQ/LA though that can be largely attributed to the appearance on the track of My Chemical Romance's Gerard Way.)

As has been mentioned by others in previous posts, gold and classics serve an important and valuable purpose in extending the appeal of the format to both core fans and those on the fringe, as well as those unfamiliar with the format but who do recognize those tracks.

What is needed on FM is an agressively-programmed station that plays actual dance music, including some carefully selected out-of-format remixes, with respectable production and presentation, plus strong, professional personalities. Oh yeah, a proper signal in an appropriate market helps a lot.

What I have described is the strategy that was employed during my three years at XM and BPM. It appealed to dance fans and those who had never heard the music before; I lost count of the number of people I heard from by phone, email and IM who found the channel by accident, had never heard the stuff and liked it. People of all ages, from big cities to one-horse towns, straight and gay, men and women, a hundred lifestyles including people who would never go near a nightclub. Would you believe BPM was popular with long-haul truckers? Surprise, I was too.

This is also the strategy I and my web-conspirator Ares are using on ShoutDRIVE.com, though given our position as a continental webcaster, we go a bit deeper than we would if this was on a local FM.

America (and we longtime dance fans/industry people) is being told in the mainstream media that EDM is huge in the U.S. yet it's not reflected on FM. Weekend late-night mix shows don't count - they're great and all but if EDM is so big here as is being reported we should be hearing the likes of EDM poster children Tiesto and Deadmau5 on CHR at 2pm in regular rotation. Either the mainstream media is full of crap or radio is blind to reality. The dance/EDM format is just waiting for its chance to be done well on FM in the right place by the right people.

(Oh, I know why it's not being done. I ain't stupid.)

 

[chime]

Well, I suppose all of us who enjoy an energedic format
such as dance go through this rather often. After
all, look how many times the format has run on 103.1
here in LA. And while I am not an expert on specific
artists, as a listener I really loved what KDHT was
doing. It had a commercial feel, sounded quite a bit
better than what XM BPM has become. BPM was much
better before the merger. Funny I wanted to write BPM
and have them sample KDHT, but my time ran out. Its
not often I can listen to a station more than 3hours,
but KDHT was sure special-and-I hope some1 took some
airchex

 

[Dancerev889]

The biggest issue is the audience. Something that hasn't been mention that is a huge factor with EDM is that audience is very young. What 15 year old is going to wear a meter? Also a lot kids don't listen to radio, they listen to their IPOD. You cant compete with the internet when all these producers/artists are sending out their music for free constantly. Listening to radio was where you heard music for the first time. Ironically, I had a student that just moved back from Denver and she was a huge fan of Hot 107. She came to school here and it took two months to figure out that we were similar.

 

[CHRles]

I love Hot 107.1 Denver - such a shame this station is no more It was one of my favorite Dance stations on the planet over the past year b/c to me they got it - they tapped into the EDM community in Denver, and weren't afraid to play Dance records that weren't House or Trance, but were just good EDM records. The Dubstep component was great! I love the Krewella and Dubstep records, and I think that on a station that doesn't play any ballads it's important to have the occasional slower-paced tune. It breaks up the monotony, and it makes you appreciate the faster paced BPMs in other songs.
Dubstep helps bring balance, helps bring new listeners and new attitudes.
Do I want to hear an all Dubstep station? Me personally, no. You know my tastes run deep on the House, Trance side of things, but I enjoy the occasional Dubstep, Breaks, Hard Dance, and Drum N Bass record. I also enjoy a lot of crossover vocal stuff, especially if it sounds Euro

Alan, your time at XM's BPM was amazing. It can be remembered as one of the all-time best programmed Dance stations in America, alongside the late 80s sound of Power 96 Miami and Hot 97 new York, or the early 2 K sound of Energy in Chicago

Shoutdrive is one of my favorite net-based stations, along with Ascendanceradio, Radio Danz, and Sense.FM's Trance channel

On the international front I'm very partial to stations like Radio FG out of France, Sweden's net-only station Radio Seven, Radio Ibiza out of Southern Italy, France's net-only Puls Radio, Switzerland's net-only Rouge Platine FM, and Moscow's IO-FM

 

[TonySantiago]

I love Hot 107.1 Denver - such a shame this station is no more It was one of my favorite Dance stations on the planet over the past year b/c to me they got it - they tapped into the EDM community in Denver, and weren't afraid to play Dance records that weren't House or Trance, but were just good EDM records. The Dubstep component was great! I love the Krewella and Dubstep records, and I think that on a station that doesn't play any ballads it's important to have the occasional slower-paced tune. It breaks up the monotony, and it makes you appreciate the faster paced BPMs in other songs.
Dubstep helps bring balance, helps bring new listeners and new attitudes.
Do I want to hear an all Dubstep station? Me personally, no. You know my tastes run deep on the House, Trance side of things, but I enjoy the occasional Dubstep, Breaks, Hard Dance, and Drum N Bass record. I also enjoy a lot of crossover vocal stuff, especially if it sounds Euro

Alan, your time at XM's BPM was amazing. It can be remembered as one of the all-time best programmed Dance stations in America, alongside the late 80s sound of Power 96 Miami and Hot 97 new York, or the early 2 K sound of Energy in Chicago

Shoutdrive is one of my favorite net-based stations, along with Ascendanceradio, Radio Danz, and Sense.FM's Trance channel

On the international front I'm very partial to stations like Radio FG out of France, Sweden's net-only station Radio Seven, Radio Ibiza out of Southern Italy, France's net-only Puls Radio, Switzerland's net-only Rouge Platine FM, and Moscow's IO-FM

CHRles, where have you been? It's been a long time!

 

[TonySantiago]

Hello Tony, Perry, Morpheux, et al. There are a dozen ways to do dance music on broadcast media, depending on the target audience and goal of the operator.

That said, I don't believe that R&B, rap and CHR product is necessary on a dance music/EDM format. That material *can* be included, as I explained, depending on the strategy.

What people appear to forget or choose to ignore is that there is plenty of poppy, hooky music that is dance/EDM at its core that could be CHR material if CHR wished to deem it so. The politics of the music business and FM radio seem to prevent that from happening. A mainstream FM dance/EDM station can easily exist on a diet of current material like Armin van Buuren, Nadia Ali, BT, Swedish House Mafia, Tiesto, Deadmau5, Ferry Corsten, Kaskade, Above & Beyond, Jes, Avicii, Wolfgang Gartner, Robbie Rivera, Sander van Doorn, even Skrillex's "Bangarang," though the vast majority of dubstep (since it came up) is too divisive for general mainstream rotation play. (Dubstep would more appropriately find a place on a dance format programmed to lean alternative. Speaking of alternative radio, while not dubstep, Deadmau5's "Professional Griefers" is played by KROQ/LA though that can be largely attributed to the appearance on the track of My Chemical Romance's Gerard Way.)

As has been mentioned by others in previous posts, gold and classics serve an important and valuable purpose in extending the appeal of the format to both core fans and those on the fringe, as well as those unfamiliar with the format but who do recognize those tracks.

What is needed on FM is an agressively-programmed station that plays actual dance music, including some carefully selected out-of-format remixes, with respectable production and presentation, plus strong, professional personalities. Oh yeah, a proper signal in an appropriate market helps a lot.

What I have described is the strategy that was employed during my three years at XM and BPM. It appealed to dance fans and those who had never heard the music before; I lost count of the number of people I heard from by phone, email and IM who found the channel by accident, had never heard the stuff and liked it. People of all ages, from big cities to one-horse towns, straight and gay, men and women, a hundred lifestyles including people who would never go near a nightclub. Would you believe BPM was popular with long-haul truckers? Surprise, I was too.

This is also the strategy I and my web-conspirator Ares are using on ShoutDRIVE.com, though given our position as a continental webcaster, we go a bit deeper than we would if this was on a local FM.

America (and we longtime dance fans/industry people) is being told in the mainstream media that EDM is huge in the U.S. yet it's not reflected on FM. Weekend late-night mix shows don't count - they're great and all but if EDM is so big here as is being reported we should be hearing the likes of EDM poster children Tiesto and Deadmau5 on CHR at 2pm in regular rotation. Either the mainstream media is full of crap or radio is blind to reality. The dance/EDM format is just waiting for its chance to be done well on FM in the right place by the right people.

(Oh, I know why it's not being done. I ain't stupid.)

THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!

 

[TonySantiago]

The biggest issue is the audience. Something that hasn't been mention that is a huge factor with EDM is that audience is very young. What 15 year old is going to wear a meter? Also a lot kids don't listen to radio, they listen to their IPOD. You cant compete with the internet when all these producers/artists are sending out their music for free constantly. Listening to radio was where you heard music for the first time. Ironically, I had a student that just moved back from Denver and she was a huge fan of Hot 107. She came to school here and it took two months to figure out that we were similar.

You're right.

EDM does gear to a much younger crowd and yeah, they're either on their digital media players or smartphones hearing music. But in part the producers/artists realize that they have to go Internet since there's very few outlets in this country that are over the air and accepting the material (so to that, applause to you Brett, Jon (C89.5), Tom (DriveFX) and yes, Brian (Hot 107.1) for doing that).

Perhaps because I come from that era where I first heard music on the radio I still feel that there should be a place for dance on it, being that it was the case in the past. But I am seeing (and it's still happening) the winds of change on the commercial spectrum of the FM dial where more spoken word and less music is taking place. That's why now I'm thinking non-comm. Unfortunately in NYC, there's very little room for someone to obtain a low power signal to start up a station.

In all technicalities, and I keep forgetting this sometimes, New York DOES have a non-comm dance format on the radio, WKRB (90.3) at Kingsborough Community College in Brooklyn. However, unlike the peak era in the 80's and early 90's when guys like John Parker were on that station (as B-91, 90/9), the frequency was moved to 90.3 and even though the signal wasn't that strong to begin with (covering southern Brooklyn, parts of southern Queens - The Rockaways); I've never even HEARD of that station living in the Northern Bronx and never going down to Brooklyn back in those days, on 90.3 it's weaker...pretty much strictly south Brooklyn (Coney Island, Sheepshead Bay, Gravesend, Canarsie, Bensonhurst).

 

[Brian_1055]

I like the points being made about needing to put mass appeal dance songs on the radio, something that many recent dance stations have failed to do by going too underground.
When I was at Power 105.5 Sacramento, the hardcore fans loved the station, even though we were one of the most mainstream dance stations that have existed since (unfortunately signal and sale of the station to Salem doomed us). We played songs by artists like Sonique, Gigi D'Agostino, Alice Deejay, Stevie B, Robin Fox, ATB which drew a nice mainstream audience, but also kept the interest of that smaller hardcore crowd. I think we kept that edge/credibility with the most hardcore of all by playing deeper stuff in our late night weekend mixes and promoting the events/raves around Sac.
I was hoping to see more dance stations follow that type of programming, but unfortunately really haven't seen much of it.