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Hot AC format doesn't work in Philly. Why not?

J

JH_Radio

How is it that Hot AC never manage to make it here?
WMWX 95.7 didn't.
WISX (as Mix 106) didn't.
WTDY went from Mainstream AC to CHR (if I remember right.)
Even back when Star 104.5 WYXR was a thing, they flirted with CHR and were Hot AC but again Hot AC didn't make it here.
Y100 WPLY (before it was Alternative was that CHR or Hot AC?
So how come Hot AC doesn't do well here?
Is it because of WSTW? WSTW doesn't do huge in the ratings so that's probably not it...
Anyone got any guesses?
 
Radio listeners in Philly aren't very interested in a currents-based station.

Just look at the top rated radio formats. Not much interest in anything close to Hot AC.

But the city might be able to support another classic rocker.
 
TheBigA said:
Radio listeners in Philly aren't very interested in a currents-based station.

Yeah, I can see that. the CHR's are waaay down there.
Click to expand...

And I think this is pre or post pandemic , too.
I wonder why though. Is it an older market with not much younger people?
Like I know what the ratings say but I'd like to know more. What's behind it? Do ratings actually tell the entire story? Like I have no idea who caries these PPM devices around. How are the ratings represented?




 
The original Star, pre their first segue into a more rhythmic lean, had a nice little run. And Mix 106 did better in demos than the top line numbers if I recall. Were they going to top the B? Nah. But carved out a niche. Mix 957 was a bit of an identity crisis all along, not to mention the third format in a relatively short time. Then this new fad was floating out there just waiting for WOGL
to grab it…so they jumped first. Can’t blame them. Maybe it could have done better with some TLC, but the gamble on variety hits was a decent one to take.
Y100 (new Z100)…also an identity crisis case that never got enough of a time to prove itself either way before the move to alternative began.
 
JH_Radio said:
How is it that Hot AC never manage to make it here?
WMWX 95.7 didn't.
WISX (as Mix 106) didn't.
WTDY went from Mainstream AC to CHR (if I remember right.)
Even back when Star 104.5 WYXR was a thing, they flirted with CHR and were Hot AC but again Hot AC didn't make it here.
Y100 WPLY (before it was Alternative was that CHR or Hot AC?
So how come Hot AC doesn't do well here?
Is it because of WSTW? WSTW doesn't do huge in the ratings so that's probably not it...
Anyone got any guesses?
Click to expand...
Max 95.7 was starting to build when it was flipped to Jammin' Gold 95.7 to beat (then) Clear Channel to the format. It also leaned more "Modern AC" and battled Y100 for listeners.

Mix 95.7 could just never find a lane and was always tweaking the format and never could gain ground on B101.

96.5 the Point in their brief stint as Hot AC... no one noticed because they morphed out of All-80s.

Star 104.5 also couldn't find a lane, bouncing from Hot AC to CHR to a Rhythmic Hot AC. If listeners don't know what they're gonna get, they're not gonna tune in regularly.

Mix 106, once they dropped the "My" moniker had a steady few years, but B101 had morphed hotter and kept them at bay.

Y100 before it was Alt was supposed to be more Hot AC (the WPLY calls were similar to WPLJ in NYC, and the story was they were supposed to simulcast Scott Shannon's morning show, but that never happened). Alt was getting big back then, so they took that lane.

WTDY had some potential as an AC, but was flipped to CHR when Entercom bought B101 and they didn't need to compete with their own sister station.

Even Now 97.5 couldn't stick to a flavor. They were AC, Christmas, and Hot AC, and a bit Modern AC then flipped to the Fanatic all in the short single year of their life.

I really wouldn't factor in fringe stations like WSTW or Y102. Sure, they may nibble away at some listeners on the edges of the Philly market. But the biggest factor always seemed to be B101. Sure they are "Mainstream AC", but they were a powerhouse, and people tuned in by default. Like Action News on the TV side. Plus B101 would always tweak as needed to fend off any competitor. Regardless of what the other guys did, people kept the dial on 101.1.
 
It helps to have real investment—time, money, marketing (etc) that the B had. Few of the others had that. I remember a few spots for 106…maybe in the My name era? The Philly name era? Regardless, there wasn’t much lavished on them. Take that up against a heritage position and someone willing to spend where needed…that’s a tough battle. Some of those stations amounted a bit to the proverbial tree falling in the forest, with no one around to hear.

Though several of them did have Barsky. So there’s that connection. 😂
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
It helps to have real investment—time, money, marketing (etc) that the B had. Few of the others had that. I remember a few spots for 106…maybe in the My name era? The Philly name era? Regardless, there wasn’t much lavished on them. Take that up against a heritage position and someone willing to spend where needed…that’s a tough battle. Some of those stations amounted a bit to the proverbial tree falling in the forest, with no one around to hear.

Though several of them did have Barsky. So there’s that connection. 😂
Click to expand...
I think those spots were the Philly's era, when they first launched with Whoopi in the morning and made that a big deal.
 
Memories of my own personal feelings about these stations/failures...

Mix and Max were unnecessary and boring. I actually resented them because I wanted them to be doing something more interesting.

Philly's 106.1 and My 106.1 also felt unnecessary. And to my ears, it sounded cheap AF, as if no one involved in the station even cared about it. No way they were gonna take a bite out of 101.1.

When I was a kid, I actually liked Star 104.5 and when I was a little older, I actually loved when they went Rhythmic AC. Though by then, I was old enough to wonder why they leaned in on a format that competed with one of their sister stations. I still can clearly remember one of the jingles from their Rhythmic AC incarnation. More of a shotgun, really.

As for Now 97.5: I actually thought this was an interesting and ballsy shot. They went directly for 101.1's throat, both with the regular format and with the Christmas stunt. WBEB, of course, reacted and Now appeared to run away with their tail between their legs. I thought they should have stuck it out a while longer.
 
I liked Max for what it was. They were starting in my taste to get a little better right at the end (despite not because of said Barsky). But hey, I get what the company felt it needed to try. Mix…well, I didn’t dislike them. They just didn’t do anything all that interesting to me.

I thoroughly enjoyed the original Star. Not a big fan of the rhythmic pivot presentation, but as they came back to…whatever it is they were…I liked them better. Also get why they needed to change as companies merged along the way. (Frankly, I may be the only person to still say they enjoyed Alice.)

106, I always “forgot” was there. There was just.nothing that put it in the “top of mind” space for me. Some local shops had it on so I would hear it, notice and go about my day. Kind of wish they had brought Eagle back with some kind of adjustment since it couldn’t be CHR.

Now always felt doomed to me but that’s just me. They sure went straight at the competition, but never gave me a reason to change if it was pretty much the same thing just with some puffery in their positioning.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
Kind of wish they had brought Eagle back with some kind of adjustment since it couldn’t be CHR.

Now always felt doomed to me but that’s just me. They sure went straight at the competition, but never gave me a reason to change if it was pretty much the same thing just with some puffery in their positioning.
Click to expand...

At the time, I also thought the timing was pretty perfect to call their Hot AC attempt "Eagle 106." Kinda like using the "Sunny 104.5" name. People remembered that name. A good chunk of the audience they were aiming for likely had fond memories of Eagle 106 and had by then aged from the Top 40 demo to the AC demo. Every little bit helps.

I never imagined that Now thought they could beat WBEB. I figured they were realistic enough to hope they'd make money while always being the market's AC also-ran. There's certainly money to be made that way. That's why I thought they should have stuck it out a bit longer.
 
I’m picturing the “meeting” where it came down to (a) being the runner up in AC and (b) being the also ran in sports but beating the other guys to FM and being a teensy bit less of an also ran. I suppose in that basic scenario, I’d choose B.
 
I liked that RockAC Alice.
I forgot about 97.5. I dunno why they tried to take on the B, nobody could ever beat them.

WSNI was 20 years ago what is now more like The Breeze.

Interesting that Soft AC was done by the same company just 20 years apart and on different frequencies.

As far as Eagle 106, I know of people who if I mention they know exactly what I'm talking about! Even my mom who is in her 70's knows The Eagle!

I do wonder what would have happened if 106 went with the Eagle name and not the mix name. They couldn't use WEGX calls though.

106 coulda been Eagle, 104.5 could have tried Sunny a third time round and 96.5 coulda done the alt thing (Hey they do it on the HD2 anyway.) Then again, maybe the branding had to be different for it to work. Hense why no 104.5 a third time and just blow up 106, (which that classic hip hop format lasted what a year?

But then How about Ben-FM? I'm surprised they're still more or less sticking with the same music library they have had for ages with WOGL in play now.

But this leads me to something else, Mainstream AC is so hot hot hot now, that the blurring of lines is more and more a thing.
So here's the question has Mainstream AC morphed into Hot AC?
The B has been getting hotter and hotter (with most of the rest of the mainstream AC stations in the country following in their footsteps) since it switched from WEAZ in 1992. Its been a slow evolution.
Perhaps now with the way the cookies crumbled that softer AC is covered by the Breathe, Hot AC is more or less covered by the B.
 
@ Abraham and JH : I too liked that Alice station for a while. Their calls were WLCE. On an errand that took me down to PHL I enjoyed their morning/midday mix, although me being a 60's/70's kind of guy. Those growly liners/separators were funny.

However, en route home that afternoon, I heard them playing many of the same songs during PM drive! Sorry, Alice, but my appreciation of the Eighties pop/AoR crossovers isn't limited to just the 20 or so songs they seemed to've had in their library.

104.5 comes in here the best of any FMer from Philly, about 100 miles SSW of us. I don't even know what the calls are today. They've had more image changes than most pro sports teams have uniforms nowadays.
The first time I ever heard 104.5, they were 'Beautiful Country', for crying out loud.
 
JH_Radio said:
How is it that Hot AC never manage to make it here?
WMWX 95.7 didn't.
WISX (as Mix 106) didn't.
WTDY went from Mainstream AC to CHR (if I remember right.)
Even back when Star 104.5 WYXR was a thing, they flirted with CHR and were Hot AC but again Hot AC didn't make it here.
Y100 WPLY (before it was Alternative was that CHR or Hot AC?
So how come Hot AC doesn't do well here?
Is it because of WSTW? WSTW doesn't do huge in the ratings so that's probably not it...
Anyone got any guesses?
Click to expand...
WSTW is an adult leaning CHR, not a Hot A/C.
 
JH_Radio said:
So here's the question has Mainstream AC morphed into Hot AC?
The B has been getting hotter and hotter
Click to expand...

Adult Contemporary just is hotter now. And it actually has been for quite some time. Part of the reason WBEB dropped the B101 branding was because a lot of people still associated it with the "Soft Rock" days of AC. The format itself--not just one or two of the stations doing it--has evolved...which appears to have created an opening for Soft AC stations to flourish.
 
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Indeed. A lane opened up that wasn’t really there during Sunny 2.0. I mean, they kind of tried to make one and weren’t alone, but it’s pretty clearly a different world at this time. Just look at how the breeze has blown all over the country (figuratively speaking).
 
And what's old is new again? I wonder if radio will just cater toward listeners who know radio for radio until. hmmm. 20 years from now? what happens to AM/FM 20 years from now I wonder.
 
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