-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
HOT IS NOT (ANYMORE), QWK ROCK TO MOVE AND MORE COUNTRY ON THE WAY?
R
ratingsgeek
Guest
Spackler says " Most advertisers don't "use" ratings - stations use them to sell advertising. Agencies mis-use them under a false assumption that there is a magic formula that will provide their clients with results. Arbitron methodology is flawed and sample size is too small. To repeat a cliche, if you live by the numbers, you die by the numbers. Under the current market conditions, WGMR can't not pick up some listeners. It won't be reflected in the Spring book, but if things remain the way they are, I think you'll see it happen. WGMR sounds much, much better than it has in several years"
Sir, I don't know precisely what part of the industry is your area of expertise, but your view of how ratings are used or misused by stations and advertisers reflects positions held mostly by either a) operators of stations that don't do well in ratings, b) small market broadcasters who don't want to pay Arbitron's fees, c) advertisers who are math-impaired, or d) engineers & air talents who are merely repeating what they've heard. Forget the decimal points and the book-to-book up-down motion of specific stations and take a broad look: it makes sense. Ask yourself "Which stations logically should do well in this market?" You'll usually find them near the top. Ask yourself "Which stations should get their asses kicked in this market?" You'll usually find them near the bottom. Ratings are designed to help advertisers cut through sales BS and get an objective unbiased take on which stations are strong and which ones aren't. Their existence, though, has prompted competitive broadcasters to be on their toes. Less competitive broadcasters deny their value. It's just human nature.
Sir, I don't know precisely what part of the industry is your area of expertise, but your view of how ratings are used or misused by stations and advertisers reflects positions held mostly by either a) operators of stations that don't do well in ratings, b) small market broadcasters who don't want to pay Arbitron's fees, c) advertisers who are math-impaired, or d) engineers & air talents who are merely repeating what they've heard. Forget the decimal points and the book-to-book up-down motion of specific stations and take a broad look: it makes sense. Ask yourself "Which stations logically should do well in this market?" You'll usually find them near the top. Ask yourself "Which stations should get their asses kicked in this market?" You'll usually find them near the bottom. Ratings are designed to help advertisers cut through sales BS and get an objective unbiased take on which stations are strong and which ones aren't. Their existence, though, has prompted competitive broadcasters to be on their toes. Less competitive broadcasters deny their value. It's just human nature.
A
ameyer
Guest
Did Forever shoot themselves in the toe? Yeah! Unless there is a simaulcast of one of the other hots in the market..WGMR is it now. It is the only station in town that is playing the music that the Hot audience had. We all know that the station could not be sold. It was the same reason that we saw the fall of Hot 107.9 It could not be sold!!!! If Forever would have been smart they would have scaled 103 back a little more CHR and not as rythmic as they were. The station always had good ratings before they made the adjustment to Hot AC and then the move to CHR Rythmic If it not broke why fix it? They messed with it and now it is gone
Look for GMR to make some changes to the playlist and go at that audience full force without the hardcore urban and take a pretty good chunk of that audience!
Look for GMR to make some changes to the playlist and go at that audience full force without the hardcore urban and take a pretty good chunk of that audience!
R
ratingsgeek
Guest
I don't think I missed your point ("Under the current market conditions, WGMR can't not pick up some listeners. It won't be reflected in the Spring book, but if things remain the way they are, I think you'll see it happen. WGMR sounds much, much better than it has in several years"). But let me clarify my point.
We're talking about the same people who exactly one year ago chose not to wait 3 weeks and see what the Spring 2005 research showed about their programming efforts (it was their best book in years) and instead made changes that cut their audience in half--to their worst book ever. Now, 3 weeks before the Spring 2006 research is released they are electing (see ameyer's post above) not to wait and see how their current programming efforts have been received in the market, but rather to make adjustments blindly--based, apparently, on their interpretation of Forever's disillusionment with WJHT... disregarding all sorts of facts (like, for instance, that Hot's ratings were huge compared to their own; and that Hot's sales revenues were huge compared to their own). They have exhibited an inclination to ignore all evidence and shoot from the hip, and thus far it's gotten them to a notch below WMAJ. Following this same strategy AGAIN could get them a notch below taxi calls regardless of what's happening elsewhere on the dial.
We're talking about the same people who exactly one year ago chose not to wait 3 weeks and see what the Spring 2005 research showed about their programming efforts (it was their best book in years) and instead made changes that cut their audience in half--to their worst book ever. Now, 3 weeks before the Spring 2006 research is released they are electing (see ameyer's post above) not to wait and see how their current programming efforts have been received in the market, but rather to make adjustments blindly--based, apparently, on their interpretation of Forever's disillusionment with WJHT... disregarding all sorts of facts (like, for instance, that Hot's ratings were huge compared to their own; and that Hot's sales revenues were huge compared to their own). They have exhibited an inclination to ignore all evidence and shoot from the hip, and thus far it's gotten them to a notch below WMAJ. Following this same strategy AGAIN could get them a notch below taxi calls regardless of what's happening elsewhere on the dial.
ratingsgeek said:
It's really pretty simple. People will go where they have to in order to hear the music they want to hear, even if the only choice is less than ideal for them. If nothing else changes except Hot 103 going away, WGMR will pick up some gains as a results. Can't say what the WGMR people are going to do, but this is an opportunity for them.
I'm curious to know why you think listeners "stay away from G101 in droves" or whatever your quote was.
By the way, my original point was that you can sell without ratings. Hang your hat on the book at your own peril. Unfortunatly, agencies would rather plug numbers into a program rather than use their heads.
I'm curious how those facts are derived myself. Aside from the "book" which again many of us will not take as true gospel fact...how do you know who is listening and who is not? Got a crystal ball....or majic tarot cards or what exactly?ratingsgeek said:
If you think G101 does not have an audience, then you are just fooling yourself. Sure, perhaps we aren't #1....but our listeners are there and I think that perhaps more are on the way unless somehow you can convince me that Hot's most faithful listeners suddenly have a craving for AC/DC and the likes on the new QWK Rock...or perhaps they'd rather settle for some more Country Twang instead? Sorry....if the music we want is what they are after...where else they gonna go?
R
ratingsgeek
Guest
Spackler: "staying away in droves?" Check the trend. It's gruesome. Truly below both RSC & MAJ. Their first task is beating the AM stations.
Steve: "Aside from the book..." I'm sorry. Neither you nor I wrote the rules. It's kinda like being in school. We don't choose to have report cards--they give 'em to us anyway--and we had to make the grades. I was an "Å" student; how 'bout you? You say you don't believe in ratings, so I presume you didn't believe in grades. But you got 'em anyway. Like Meggawatt said, when you get a 6 share...
That sounds nasty, and I'm really sorry for the way it sounds. The normal elements that seem to be required for ratings (audience) success just don't seem to be in place for 101. Maybe it'll happen anyway. Good luck.
Steve: "Aside from the book..." I'm sorry. Neither you nor I wrote the rules. It's kinda like being in school. We don't choose to have report cards--they give 'em to us anyway--and we had to make the grades. I was an "Å" student; how 'bout you? You say you don't believe in ratings, so I presume you didn't believe in grades. But you got 'em anyway. Like Meggawatt said, when you get a 6 share...
That sounds nasty, and I'm really sorry for the way it sounds. The normal elements that seem to be required for ratings (audience) success just don't seem to be in place for 101. Maybe it'll happen anyway. Good luck.
F
fwdmo
Guest
shilton said:
I hope those listeners REALLY want to hear Joe Jackson "Steppin' Out" at noon and the Wallflowers "6th Ave. Heartache" on a regular basis. Of course they'll need to enjoy those songs in mono...with a hum in the background...in between a morning show complete with southern accents (that is never timed out right locally, by the way)...a piped in evening show (which once again, is not timed out locally and there is always dead air)...voicetracked jocks throughout the day.
Face it Hitman, the way G101 is packaged on the air is NOT going to hold too much of the cume you are being handed...winner of the older end of the demo, 3WZ...younger end of the demo, IPOD's.
G101's ONLY competition now is themselves...and they'll still lose
R
ratingsgeek
Guest
Spackler asks "Are you two different people, or just a bean-counter who understands numbers but not radio?" Just a bean-counter who understands numbers but not radio. Look, it's been fun but I do feel like I'm intruding. I'll just leave this board to you Radio Professionals. As Greaseman would say, AMF!
A
ameyer
Guest
I hope those listeners REALLY want to hear Joe Jackson "Steppin' Out" at noon and the Wallflowers "6th Ave. Heartache" on a regular basis. Of course they'll need to enjoy those songs in mono...with a hum in the background...in between a morning show complete with southern accents (that is never timed out right locally, by the way)...a piped in evening show (which once again, is not timed out locally and there is always dead air)...voicetracked jocks throughout the day.
Face it Hitman, the way G101 is packaged on the air is NOT going to hold too much of the cume you are being handed...winner of the older end of the demo, 3WZ...younger end of the demo, IPOD's.
G101's ONLY competition now is themselves...and they'll still lose
Hey FWDMO - It's Called FLASHBACK LUNCH...hence Joe Jackson at Noon...are you really that ignorant or were you just not paying attention
Ace And TJ...just got picked up by Superadio, because they have a proven track record in the ratings, as for the dead air, the monkey running the board can't do math
Romeo, doesn't even have a chance for a dead air so nice try
As for the hum, must have been a while since you listened
Face it Hitman, the way G101 is packaged on the air is NOT going to hold too much of the cume you are being handed...winner of the older end of the demo, 3WZ...younger end of the demo, IPOD's.
G101's ONLY competition now is themselves...and they'll still lose
Hey FWDMO - It's Called FLASHBACK LUNCH...hence Joe Jackson at Noon...are you really that ignorant or were you just not paying attention
Ace And TJ...just got picked up by Superadio, because they have a proven track record in the ratings, as for the dead air, the monkey running the board can't do math
Romeo, doesn't even have a chance for a dead air so nice try
As for the hum, must have been a while since you listened
F
fwdmo
Guest
"Hey FWDMO - It's Called FLASHBACK LUNCH...hence Joe Jackson at Noon...are you really that ignorant or were you just not paying attention"
I am well aware that it was a Flashback Lunch, that's why I specified at "noon" during the original post...I guess common sense escapes you.
Anyway, I guess you have never looked at radio research or a market perceptual, have you? COMPATIBILITY is a major factor in deciding what is played and what isn't. Now to do a flashback feature on a CHR, MOST radio stations play retro cuts that are still compatible with the format (Baby's Got Back, Word Up, I Wish maybe even Living on a Prayer, these songs are compatible)...Steppin' Out is not even a Hot AC record!?!
How are you deciding what to play on the flashback lunch, or to play in regular rotation, for that matter? Do you do research, look at charts or just play "whatever?"
Perfect example, yesterday, while flipping around, I heard Anything But Down by Sheryl Crow...once again, not even a Hot AC record...it is barely getting played on Triple A.
"Ace And TJ...just got picked up by Superadio, because they have a proven track record in the ratings, as for the dead air, the monkey running the board can't do math"
They have been very successful...IN THE SOUTH...did you listen and wonder why there are no, none, zero affiliates in the North???
By the way, nice way to insult your co-workers,,,you might be the real monkey.
"Romeo, doesn't even have a chance for a dead air so nice try"
Ummm...during local breaks, there is a chance for dead air...or else it was just the stations off the air...AGAIN
"As for the hum, must have been a while since you listened"
Wow, maybe the hum is gone...good for you...why does it seem to phase in and out now, not to mention it sounds distorted? One problem down, 27 more to go.
I am well aware that it was a Flashback Lunch, that's why I specified at "noon" during the original post...I guess common sense escapes you.
Anyway, I guess you have never looked at radio research or a market perceptual, have you? COMPATIBILITY is a major factor in deciding what is played and what isn't. Now to do a flashback feature on a CHR, MOST radio stations play retro cuts that are still compatible with the format (Baby's Got Back, Word Up, I Wish maybe even Living on a Prayer, these songs are compatible)...Steppin' Out is not even a Hot AC record!?!
How are you deciding what to play on the flashback lunch, or to play in regular rotation, for that matter? Do you do research, look at charts or just play "whatever?"
Perfect example, yesterday, while flipping around, I heard Anything But Down by Sheryl Crow...once again, not even a Hot AC record...it is barely getting played on Triple A.
"Ace And TJ...just got picked up by Superadio, because they have a proven track record in the ratings, as for the dead air, the monkey running the board can't do math"
They have been very successful...IN THE SOUTH...did you listen and wonder why there are no, none, zero affiliates in the North???
By the way, nice way to insult your co-workers,,,you might be the real monkey.
"Romeo, doesn't even have a chance for a dead air so nice try"
Ummm...during local breaks, there is a chance for dead air...or else it was just the stations off the air...AGAIN
"As for the hum, must have been a while since you listened"
Wow, maybe the hum is gone...good for you...why does it seem to phase in and out now, not to mention it sounds distorted? One problem down, 27 more to go.
A
ameyer
Guest
How are you deciding what to play on the flashback lunch, or to play in regular rotation, for that matter? Do you do research, look at charts or just play "whatever?"
I don't need to explain how we choose what to play and what we don't...just because you think that we should play this and that doesn't voice everyone's opinion. And for your information there are a lot of CHR stations that are playing retro cuts like that during the retro shows, hell some even during normal roatation.
They have been very successful...IN THE SOUTH...did you listen and wonder why there are no, none, zero affiliates in the North???
Because we were the only station to take a gamble with the southren accents...BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DRAW! Who cares? If you can't get over that then here is a novel idea...DON"T LISTEN TO THEM!!!! Proven track record, emails, phone calls, we will let the number speak for themselves
Ummm...during local breaks, there is a chance for dead air...or else it was just the stations off the air...AGAIN
Nice try but Romeo has optional local breaks, means they play a song during the break, so even if the local break was short, still would come back during the song, and there would be NO CHANCE of dead air, and there have been issues on Supreadio's end with the feed...Open foot, insert mouth....HERE!!!!
I don't need to explain how we choose what to play and what we don't...just because you think that we should play this and that doesn't voice everyone's opinion. And for your information there are a lot of CHR stations that are playing retro cuts like that during the retro shows, hell some even during normal roatation.
They have been very successful...IN THE SOUTH...did you listen and wonder why there are no, none, zero affiliates in the North???
Because we were the only station to take a gamble with the southren accents...BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DRAW! Who cares? If you can't get over that then here is a novel idea...DON"T LISTEN TO THEM!!!! Proven track record, emails, phone calls, we will let the number speak for themselves
Ummm...during local breaks, there is a chance for dead air...or else it was just the stations off the air...AGAIN
Nice try but Romeo has optional local breaks, means they play a song during the break, so even if the local break was short, still would come back during the song, and there would be NO CHANCE of dead air, and there have been issues on Supreadio's end with the feed...Open foot, insert mouth....HERE!!!!
F
fwdmo
Guest
"I don't need to explain how we choose what to play and what we don't...just because you think that we should play this and that doesn't voice everyone's opinion. And for your information there are a lot of CHR stations that are playing retro cuts like that during the retro shows, hell some even during normal roatation."
Hey...buy a copy of Hooked On Phonics...I NEVER, EVER said you shouldn't play retro cuts...DID I?????????????????
Those CHR's you speak of play retro cuts that are compatible with the texture of a current format.
"Because we were the only station to take a gamble with the southren accents...BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DRAW! Who cares? If you can't get over that then here is a novel idea...DON"T LISTEN TO THEM!!!! Proven track record, emails, phone calls, we will let the number speak for themselves"
Wow...you sure told me...I shouldn't listen...wow, do you tell that to your listeners too? With an attitude like that, you are better off voicetracking so you don't piss off a listener.
As for taking a gamble, I guess I should blindly trust your decisons since you guys are the trend setter, ratings leader and financial powerhouse in Central PA.
"Nice try but Romeo has optional local breaks, means they play a song during the break, so even if the local break was short, still would come back during the song, and there would be NO CHANCE of dead air, and there have been issues on Supreadio's end with the feed...Open foot, insert mouth....HERE!!!!"
Ok, I'll admit when I heard the dead air I thought it was on your end...BUT since what I have heard must have been issues with Superradio's feed, the listeners heard dead air...it doesn't matter where the blame is...it just matters there is NO AUDIO. In the eyes of the listener, YOU are accountable, even when the network craps out.
Regardless of who's fault it is, my original point stands.
Hey...buy a copy of Hooked On Phonics...I NEVER, EVER said you shouldn't play retro cuts...DID I?????????????????
Those CHR's you speak of play retro cuts that are compatible with the texture of a current format.
"Because we were the only station to take a gamble with the southren accents...BIG DEAL THEY HAVE A DRAW! Who cares? If you can't get over that then here is a novel idea...DON"T LISTEN TO THEM!!!! Proven track record, emails, phone calls, we will let the number speak for themselves"
Wow...you sure told me...I shouldn't listen...wow, do you tell that to your listeners too? With an attitude like that, you are better off voicetracking so you don't piss off a listener.
As for taking a gamble, I guess I should blindly trust your decisons since you guys are the trend setter, ratings leader and financial powerhouse in Central PA.
"Nice try but Romeo has optional local breaks, means they play a song during the break, so even if the local break was short, still would come back during the song, and there would be NO CHANCE of dead air, and there have been issues on Supreadio's end with the feed...Open foot, insert mouth....HERE!!!!"
Ok, I'll admit when I heard the dead air I thought it was on your end...BUT since what I have heard must have been issues with Superradio's feed, the listeners heard dead air...it doesn't matter where the blame is...it just matters there is NO AUDIO. In the eyes of the listener, YOU are accountable, even when the network craps out.
Regardless of who's fault it is, my original point stands.
A
ameyer
Guest
And your opinion is your opinion and you know what they say about opionons....
F
fwdmo
Guest
ameyer said:
Yeah, I know what they say about opinions, that everyone's is the same about G101....mmmmuuuuhahahahahaha...c'mon AJ, keep playing, it's so much fun to get under your skin
I am just waiting for your "consultant" to chime in...if he isn't too busy plotting G101's next great move. What does it take for one to become a consultant, anyway?? Just being IN radio?? I have been IN Uni-Mart many times...I wonder if I could start consulting them?? That is something for me to ponder!!
By the way...Hitman...Chamillionaire is pronounced "Ka-millionaire" with a hard "K", NOT "Cha-millionaire"...there, now I am a consultant too!!
WOW bitter dude,
I was back in town over holiday and cant see what this guy is talking about. I dont know how involved you are with G101 anymore but he really isnt saying anything logical here. People dont bust on Bob and Tom for a midwest accent or on Stern for a New York one. Its just nonesense.
I drove for over 75 miles listening to the station and that just does not happen with the others there. This whole rant sounds like a [*EDIT]you guys fired or maybe you [**EDIT]!
Look little mad guy, you gave some critisism and thats cool but then you went way too far. Most of what you said just was flat out false. The imaging sounds good. The jocks sound good. The music sounds good. The signal has no hiss and is in stereo as its been as long as I can remember. Dead air well we listened at Lake Raystown for three or four days and I didnt catch it.
You seem to drudge up things that happened here or there over the years on WGMR and well ALL stations here. Its kind of funny as I was tuning around I heard two spots playing at once on one of the AMs, and heard dead air on one of the FMs. I heard a misplaced voicetrack over and over on another FM, but it happens. Am I going to act like a child about it? No. Am I going to put silly little faces on this? No.
Yes I worked alot of the guys on the air at G101 and other stations and am loyal to my buds but come on. Now why would somebody say things like this? I still think AJ stole the dudes woman!
[*EDIT-namecalling]
[**EDIT-objectionable content]
I was back in town over holiday and cant see what this guy is talking about. I dont know how involved you are with G101 anymore but he really isnt saying anything logical here. People dont bust on Bob and Tom for a midwest accent or on Stern for a New York one. Its just nonesense.
I drove for over 75 miles listening to the station and that just does not happen with the others there. This whole rant sounds like a [*EDIT]you guys fired or maybe you [**EDIT]!
Look little mad guy, you gave some critisism and thats cool but then you went way too far. Most of what you said just was flat out false. The imaging sounds good. The jocks sound good. The music sounds good. The signal has no hiss and is in stereo as its been as long as I can remember. Dead air well we listened at Lake Raystown for three or four days and I didnt catch it.
You seem to drudge up things that happened here or there over the years on WGMR and well ALL stations here. Its kind of funny as I was tuning around I heard two spots playing at once on one of the AMs, and heard dead air on one of the FMs. I heard a misplaced voicetrack over and over on another FM, but it happens. Am I going to act like a child about it? No. Am I going to put silly little faces on this? No.
Yes I worked alot of the guys on the air at G101 and other stations and am loyal to my buds but come on. Now why would somebody say things like this? I still think AJ stole the dudes woman!
[*EDIT-namecalling]
[**EDIT-objectionable content]
- Status