Houston, We Have A Problem

[DToTheJ]

It's being reported that CBS-owned Houston daytimer KIKK-AM 650, which shuts down at sunset to protect the mighty WSM, was on the air all night last night.

More info on the Houston/Galveston board:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,114703.0.html

 

[scottwmro]

It's being reported that CBS-owned Houston daytimer KIKK-AM 650, which shuts down at sunset to protect the mighty WSM, was on the air all night last night.

More info on the Houston/Galveston board:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,114703.0.html

With all due respect, why are you and all on that Houston Board making such a big deal over it? If it was just one or two nights, it's probably a remote control or computer error. This happened to a station I was taking care of here in Gallatin. WYXE-AM 1130 here in Gallatin is a daytimer and the Sine Systems Remote control went out of wack. WYXE's studios are a little of 20 miles away in North Nashville.

I would call the Sine Systems when I first realized what was going on and turn it off over the phone. Then, the next night or two, it continued. The station was automated after 5 PM and this was during the hot, summertime. I had to go out there and re-program the sine systems remote contol. WYXE protects KWKH, owned by Clear Channel and WBBR in NYC.

Remote Contols are not perfect, because they are man made and we are not perfect. So what, these things just happen.

Now, on the flip side of the coin, if an operator-d.j. was doing it just to be cute, the licensee should be reponsible, IMHO, the operator-d.j. just needs his butt kicked and slapped with the fine personally. But it doesn't work that way with the FCC. They go after the licensee.

Keep in mind clears (Class A stations) have only a 750 mile protection circle of thier transmitter site. I'm fairly sure KIKK falls within WSM's protection circle. I also wonder if KIKK wanted to be on at night, how many towers it would take KIKK to bulid to protect WSM at night?

 

[kc4rae]

.

Scott...

I live just northeast of Austin and I can't hear WSM well at all. Instead, I'm hearing Spanish language music and announcements. For the little while I was outside listening, I could hear the weather from WSM, but only part of it. No KIKK though. Probably wouldn't hear them if they still had the transmitter on anyway since the station is licensed for 250 watts and they would have to compete with whatever station I'm hearing over WSM now.

 

[scottwmro]

Re: .

Scott...

I live just northeast of Austin and I can't hear WSM well at all. Instead, I'm hearing Spanish language music and announcements. For the little while I was outside listening, I could hear the weather from WSM, but only part of it. No KIKK though. Probably wouldn't hear them if they still had the transmitter on anyway since the station is licensed for 250 watts and they would have to compete with whatever station I'm hearing over WSM now.

I see it like this, we are not in 1939, but soon to be in 2009 in 1 month. WSM is broadcasting (including the opry) on XM. There may come a day, probably not in my lifetime that WSM will get smart, trun off that 50 KW beast, and transmit just on XM. The upside of this it will boost XM satellite sales up, due to we have already figured out IBOC doesn't work on AM.

One of my buddies, Jason Cooper, is an engineer at WSM-AM, I think he took on some of the duties of the WSM's transmitter when Watt Hairston retired. Oh, Watt still around if there is major trouble, but Jason has been going out there when there is some trouble. It is 652 miles from KIKK's transmitter site to WSM's transmitter site. This is why KIKK has no Post Sunset, but they do have Pre-Sunrise.

Probably, nobody would have said a word about KIKK being on at midnight if some DX'er didn't get on here to blab his mouth about it and make such a big deal over it. Man, some people don't have a life outside of thier communications gear!

I'll tell Jason about it next time I talk to him. He'll just laugh, besides down there in Houston, you guys have better ground conductivity than we do. The FCC says we have about a 4, but really it's a .01! I don't think KIKK hurt WSM that night(s), it was so Mexican or Cuban bunch cranking it up thinking they are going to stir up the U.S. What they fail to understand is the majority of the U.S. population those nights were watching TV, listening to FM or XM. They need to go back to the drawing board to jam those signals!

 

[Journeyman]

Really? WSM on XM? I thought that voiced-tracked crap deal ended years ago! When did it start again?

 

[kr0nic]

WSM was on Sirius, was it not? I think XM only carries the Opry, which they picked up after Sirius dumped WSM.

 

[scottwmro]

WSM was on Sirius, was it not? I think XM only carries the Opry, which they picked up after Sirius dumped WSM.

I was under the impression that just here in the past few months that XM picked up WSM fulltime. If they haven't, they need to.

As a matter of fact, it would be a good idea for XM to pick up all the Class "A" channels, like WSM, KDKA, WGN, WSB, WINS, etc. With the fact that IBOC has no future on the AM Band, might as well migrate the Class "A" "Super Clears to XM. I think the FCC should make it manitory.

 

[olebud]

I don't think KIKK hurt WSM that night(s),

And another quote:

With all due respect, why are you and all on that Houston Board making such a big deal over it?

With all due respect, the same reason folks on here get all stories that have nothing to do with the Nashville market. Just to have something to talk about.

KIKK is a little unusual. I was news director there for nearly 5 years back in the 70's. As I was drivinig home to S-E of Houston at night, and KIKK signed off as day ended...with little or no pause, Chuck Morgan would come on doing sports on WSM's 'All That's News.' Other evenings I could get WLAC 1510 clearly.

I don't remember which was which, but Watt might be able to explain why on stormy nights I would get one of the two stations and on mostly clear nights I'd pick up the other...clearly.

During my years there, only once did we stay on past the sign off time, and that was during flooding one Friday or Saturday night and we were doing local info long after our alloted time, but was okay because of the nature of what we were doing. The only complaints we received from from Arkansas and the folks were telling us to get off the air so they could hear the Grand Ole Opry.

I can't explain in engineering terms, but from what our engineers told me, even though we were just 250 watts, we were in flat country, and ... being on 650.....our signal went far out.....get it, 'far out'.... never mind, that was a 70s thing.

Back then, KIKK was # 1 in Houston....it was good times. When I arrived in 74, KIKK AM (650) and KIKK FM (95.7) were simulcasting. But a new rule about two stations in large markets had to have seperate staffs. Later, I'd be at WSM (650) and WSM FM (95.5). Just found it a bit ironic that both frequencies were so close.

With all due respect, why are you and all on that Houston Board making such a big deal over it? The same reason we do....to have something to get on and talk about. If we can have folks here talking about things that have nothing to do with Nashville....why not. :

 

[scottwmro]

I don't think KIKK hurt WSM that night(s),

And another quote:

With all due respect, why are you and all on that Houston Board making such a big deal over it?

With all due respect, the same reason folks on here get all stories that have nothing to do with the Nashville market. Just to have something to talk about.

KIKK is a little unusual. I was news director there for nearly 5 years back in the 70's. As I was drivinig home to S-E of Houston at night, and KIKK signed off as day ended...with little or no pause, Chuck Morgan would come on doing sports on WSM's 'All That's News.' Other evenings I could get WLAC 1510 clearly.

I don't remember which was which, but Watt might be able to explain why on stormy nights I would get one of the two stations and on mostly clear nights I'd pick up the other...clearly.

During my years there, only once did we stay on past the sign off time, and that was during flooding one Friday or Saturday night and we were doing local info long after our alloted time, but was okay because of the nature of what we were doing. The only complaints we received from from Arkansas and the folks were telling us to get off the air so they could hear the Grand Ole Opry.

I can't explain in engineering terms, but from what our engineers told me, even though we were just 250 watts, we were in flat country, and ... being on 650.....our signal went far out.....get it, 'far out'.... never mind, that was a 70s thing.

Back then, KIKK was # 1 in Houston....it was good times. When I arrived in 74, KIKK AM (650) and KIKK FM (95.7) were simulcasting. But a new rule about two stations in large markets had to have seperate staffs. Later, I'd be at WSM (650) and WSM FM (95.5). Just found it a bit ironic that both frequencies were so close.

With all due respect, why are you and all on that Houston Board making such a big deal over it? The same reason we do....to have something to get on and talk about. If we can have folks here talking about things that have nothing to do with Nashville....why not. :

Well gee Buddy, what station have you not worked at???? WLS??????

 

[deltas69]

since the topic of far out stations has cropped up..strictly a technical question here..back in the 60's/70's..i could pick up WLS/WABC..and other stations wayyy out there..either on my car radio or home radio..now..can can't here these anymore..and i'm still using the same am/fm tuner from 1968 here in the house..i understand am recievers in cars today are crap..but still doesn't explain the home radio..i take it stations must have changed the way their power is radiated..?? or are those stations no longer the blowtorches they once were ??

 

[olebud]

Delta, I think we know your problem......

i'm still using the same am/fm tuner from 1968 here in the house

 

[olebud]

Scott:

Well gee Buddy, what station have you not worked at? WLS???

I misseed WMAK, WVOL, WNAH, and I'm sure a bunch of others....I didn't work at that many, I just kept going back to the same one. ;D

 

[scottwmro]

since the topic of far out stations has cropped up..strictly a technical question here..back in the 60's/70's..i could pick up WLS/WABC..and other stations wayyy out there..either on my car radio or home radio..now..can can't here these anymore..and i'm still using the same am/fm tuner from 1968 here in the house..i understand am recievers in cars today are crap..but still doesn't explain the home radio..i take it stations must have changed the way their power is radiated..?? or are those stations no longer the blowtorches they once were ??

Delta,
A lot of these (blow-torch) stations have added IBOC to thier signal and narrowed their bandwidth to 5 KC. It's not your radio, it's what the technology has done to the transmitter plant. I did manage to pick up WSM in Grand Junction, CO. when I was out there in 2002. This was pre-IBOC days. I was able to get WLS during the daytime when I was a kid in Gallatin, not since we have WMDB on 880 and Lebanon's WKDA at 900, I can't hear them at all until after post-sunset. During the day in the 70's, you could hear WLW, WSB, WHAS, and a few others during the day in Gallatin. Not any more, thanks to IBOC.

WLAC is a real hard one to get in Florida. I stayed at my mother's for about a week in 2005, and WLAC was poor and pitiful there. I could still hear WSM fairly good. Since Clear Channel has put in IBOC 24/7 at WLAC, they can not modulate the analog signal as loud as they once did. The IBOC gear won't let the transmitter do the legal limits in analog. Even here in Gallatin, WLAC sounds horrible.

I don't know why we have to push technology that is not going to work and distroy AM. I have yet to hear WLAC's IBOC audio.

 

[kc4rae]

,

I see it like this, we are not in 1939, but soon to be in 2009 in 1 month. WSM is broadcasting (including the opry) on XM. There may come a day, probably not in my lifetime that WSM will get smart, trun off that 50 KW beast, and transmit just on XM. The upside of this it will boost XM satellite sales up, due to we have already figured out IBOC doesn't work on AM.

One of my buddies, Jason Cooper, is an engineer at WSM-AM, I think he took on some of the duties of the WSM's transmitter when Watt Hairston retired. Oh, Watt still around if there is major trouble, but Jason has been going out there when there is some trouble. It is 652 miles from KIKK's transmitter site to WSM's transmitter site. This is why KIKK has no Post Sunset, but they do have Pre-Sunrise.

Probably, nobody would have said a word about KIKK being on at midnight if some DX'er didn't get on here to blab his mouth about it and make such a big deal over it. Man, some people don't have a life outside of thier communications gear!

I'll tell Jason about it next time I talk to him. He'll just laugh, besides down there in Houston, you guys have better ground conductivity than we do. The FCC says we have about a 4, but really it's a .01! I don't think KIKK hurt WSM that night(s), it was so Mexican or Cuban bunch cranking it up thinking they are going to stir up the U.S. What they fail to understand is the majority of the U.S. population those nights were watching TV, listening to FM or XM. They need to go back to the drawing board to jam those signals!

I don't think that KIKK hurt them that night either. I don't usually hear any Houston MW stations anyway (not any that are clear enough to hear through the noise)...it's usually the Class C FMs that I hear here. I live about 120 miles away from Houston.

If it wasn't for the amount of noise (using the standard definition) on the band, I might have a pretty good chance of hearing WSM here in Taylor, TX. Man has polluted the band too much. Operating AMs at night at high power is useless with skywave operation. There's simply too much noise. It was bad when I was growing up, but now...

 

[deltas69]

Delta, I think we know your problem......
Quote
i'm still using the same am/fm tuner from 1968 here in the house
....nothing wrong with that old panasonic radio...same one i listened to lujack and landecker with...must be the iboc..(whatever the he!! it is)...that scott talks about..doesn't matter anyway..nothing on WLS OR WABC but talk.....i know at night back in 1970..the factory radio in my 64 GTO would make WLS sound like a local station..owned over 200 cars on my life..but still have dreams about that '64 GTO..

 

[kc4rae]

Those older Panasonic radios were good! I had one and an old Magnavox from the early 70s and those units were tough. The Magnavox was a heavy beast. I used the old Magnavox to receive WOWO when I was still living near the TVA Fossil Plant.

 

[scottwmro]

Delta, I think we know your problem......
Quote
i'm still using the same am/fm tuner from 1968 here in the house
....nothing wrong with that old panasonic radio...same one i listened to lujack and landecker with...must be the iboc..(whatever the he!! it is)...that scott talks about..doesn't matter anyway..nothing on WLS OR WABC but talk.....i know at night back in 1970..the factory radio in my 64 GTO would make WLS sound like a local station..owned over 200 cars on my life..but still have dreams about that '64 GTO..

Delta, Oldbud, kc4rae, & Crew,

There is nothing wrong with your 1968 reveivers. I have a pocket AM radio from 1960, and it pulls in stations just like it did when it was brand new. I bought it off of Ebay because I like old pocket radios from the 60's.
Our problem is the Utility Industry. Being I have worked in the utility industry up until mid September of this year (21 Years), I can tell you that NES buys the cheapest polemount, and padmount transfomers that can be bought. Cheap transfomer compaines like Emrco, Howard, and even GE make do not make transformers like they once did, thus, causing man made noise on the AM band.
If you get to Westmoreland,TN, right at the intersection of the new Highway 52, and 31E, at the stop light in front of Citizens Bank, there is a transfomer that is make so much noise that if you're stoped at that light, you can't get nothing on AM. That noise wipes out all 3 Gallatin stations, WSM, WLAC, and even WEEN in Lafayette and the Scottsville station on 1250.
Also, the computers (laptop and desktop PCs) and cell phones we use cause some interference as well. Let me also mention there could be a bad jack on a utility pole, a splice not put back together well on the pole, etc, that causes all this man made interference. This is WHY I've suggested power increases at night for AM stations to be able to penetrate through all this noise.
When I worked for Nashville Electric Service, I told Pat Johnson (Supervisor over the test section) where some of the transformers were causing interference to AM radios in Hendersonville. Being that Pat liked to listening to AM, he would get out his test gear and check the transfomer for me. I got one or two replaced, but since I don't work there anymore, I don't have the clout to get someone to check these transfomers making a mess out of the AM band.

***A note here for kc4eae, I looked at KIKK's daytinme pattern, and I think that 1 tower should be enough to protect WSM at night, thus KIKK could stay on at night. Being the station is owned by CBS, one would think they would look into this. Now I can be wrong, but it could take up to 2 additional towers to protect WSM at night, but my gut feeling says only one would do the trick without really studying it.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Scott

 

[scottwmro]

Scott:

Well gee Buddy, what station have you not worked at? WLS???

I misseed WMAK, WVOL, WNAH, and I'm sure a bunch of others....I didn't work at that many, I just kept going back to the same one. ;D

I know the feeling, I worked at KDF back in the mid 80's for 6 months. I hated it! I always came back to WVOL. When Sam Howard made the decision to satellite automate WVOL, I had to pull airshifts on 92Q, production, and program the automation for WVOL. WQQK & WVOL wore me out, on top of working fulltime at NES.

The reason why I stayed at WVOL/WQQK so long was because my mom and dad were good friends with Sam and Karen Howard. Sam took care of me. I stop by WVOL from time to time and see John Heidelburg, as he reminds me of my father's thinking, especially in politics. I have a lot of respect for John.

I'm so glad dad and I bought WMRO (was WWGM)!

Scott

 

[jharmon]

With the dismal state of radio these days, as a business and as a delivery medium, why would anyone expend some much energy on whether or not a station stayed on the air longer than allowed by the FCC. The FCC has been hit by the recession as well as every other enterprise and probably doesn't have a field staff to monitor such "terrible" transgression.

Be more afraid that radio will even continue to exist with the loss of local content, bank financing, XM Sirus, IPOD, MP3, Cell Phones and internet, not to mention creative talent worth listening to.

Be more afraid of the renewal of the Fairness Doctrine from the government.

Radio is losing it relevancy. Most true blue die-hard purist will probably disagree, but moving forward and feeding the family and making the mortgage is a lot more important that living in the past.