How about a Nu Rave format? Seriously

[Brooklyndon]

This unholy amalgamation of rock and dance is all the rage in the UK right now (Neon Plastics, Shitdisco, Klaxons). Fearful of yet another summer of love, their government is taking steps to contain it.

Given New York's historical fondness for both disco and art rock (and that a good portion of these bands in the UK right now are from New York [!!!, Shy Child]), could this format work, and more importantly, when mixed in with less accessible early 80s New Wave (Waitresses, Haircut 100) could this format have broad appeal 18-45?

 

[oaktree]

If true that 18-34 year olds hate and despise "radio" as we know it (and it shows,) how would a station make revenue, let alone profit, on any kind of signal with a venture like this? What kind of businesses would actively support paying money for a format as such? Just curious...

 

[neo11]

If true that 18-34 year olds hate and despise "radio" as we know it (and it shows,) how would a station make revenue, let alone profit, on any kind of signal with a venture like this? What kind of businesses would actively support paying money for a format as such? Just curious...

I don't know which business would pay money for a format like this, but just because none won't doesn't mean that they shouldn't. Radio could use a good jolt in the arm and some thinking outside the box. Perhaps the reason those 18-34 year olds despise "radio" is because of the decisions those businesses have made over the past 10-20 years, as much as the prevalence of new technology.

It always amazes me what a vibrant music/art scene New York has, but that one would never know by listening to the radio in this town.

Realistically, though, like with other missing formats, I don't see it happening. Today's radio corporations don't think outside of the box: they built the box in the first place!

 

[Brooklyndon]

I completely agree, the reason 18-34 years old aren't listening is because the formats are crap. Even hip-hop is dying as a format. Radio needs a new format.

Furthermore, 18-34 years do despise the radio. When a station comes up they'll say, ewwww, I hate that station. But then they'll listen to it on their commute in.

Radio wins by legacy right now, but what about the iPhone and its streaming internet capability, how long until people start pluging them into their iPod to car connector? Now last.fm and its wide ranging playlist - commercial free at that - is becoming the real technology threat to terrestrial radio.

CBS is in okay position, because they own last.fm.

Clear Channel however, unless they are willing to make a strategic business decision and support a lower grossing format in order to head of new technology adoption, is screwed.

 

[oaktree]

Good points ... but unlike listening to the Internet. iPods, etc ... to make a station go to any "new" format in New York or anywhere, it has to be "commercial" enough that a station can pay the bills and make a profit ... that's business.

As for businesses who "should" advertise, you're absolutely right. They "all" should...but, they don't. And those that do end up going to the "most popular" stations ... not the growing or new ones because they expect results.

You've come up with interesting points about thinking outside the box, as well ... and that is a corporate radio problem.

Would you, then, listen to this format on an AM station, if it were available? And, why / why not?

 

[davideduardo]

If true that 18-34 year olds hate and despise "radio" as we know it (and it shows,) how would a station make revenue, let alone profit, on any kind of signal with a venture like this? What kind of businesses would actively support paying money for a format as such? Just curious...

The percentage of 18-34's who use radio per the PPM is 95.3 in one of the two PPM markets now going. That hardly indicates hate; it may not be as cool as an iPod, but it is very much used.

 

[oaktree]

But that doesn't mean that 18-34 year old like radio "any more" than they did. They dislike it even less and the advance to new technology for them prove that. You know better than most, David, that so-called "youth formats" are not making it in the land of terrestrial radio today.

Maybe it's out of "habit," but surely not out of necessity. Terrestrial radio doesn't have the shelf life it once had and it's starting with the young demos. You read the trades and blogs ... and I know you know that. They don't like HD Radio, either.

 

[davideduardo]

But that doesn't mean that 18-34 year old like radio "any more" than they did. They dislike it even less and the advance to new technology for them prove that. You know better than most, David, that so-called "youth formats" are not making it in the land of terrestrial radio today.

Then why are three 18-34 stations, KROQ, KIIS and KPWR the top three in billings in LA? In fact, two of these are 12-34 stations.

Just like calling HD dead because it is just starting, calling radio dead for 18-34 is premature and maybe even in the long run an exaggeration.

 

[Brooklyndon]

But that doesn't mean that 18-34 year old like radio "any more" than they did. They dislike it even less and the advance to new technology for them prove that. You know better than most, David, that so-called "youth formats" are not making it in the land of terrestrial radio today.

Then why are three 18-34 stations, KROQ, KIIS and KPWR the top three in billings in LA? In fact, two of these are 12-34 stations.

Just like calling HD dead because it is just starting, calling radio dead for 18-34 is premature and maybe even in the long run an exaggeration.

My question is; why can't the consultants figure out what is cool to gen-y?

 

[oaktree]

Funny, David, but several "name brand" consultants and others like Jerry DelColliano note almost daily the demise (and despise) of terrestrial radio in the "youth format" demos. I'm sure you've noted. The future doesn't lie in AM, certainly, and FM is far from serving the needs of many, as witnessed by the posts here. "Traditional" formats must be failing somehow, or they wouldn't be brought up so often. The future doesn't bode well for these formats, like "Free FM" and others that corporate radio isn't paying attention to.

Tom Kelly in Philly is still trying to figure it out and he put $5-mil on the line for an AM as different as they come with "Skin Radio." So where are they to be found? No where. I find you much more of a forward thinker.

As DelColliano frequently notes, as he did last week:

"For those of you who read me regularly you know that the future of terrestrial broadcasting is in question due mainly to the fact that the next generation which hasn't fully impacted broadcasters yet is rejecting radio. Part of their reasoning is that "it sucks" -- and we have heard that many times before from young people."

They "hate" the programming offered today ... when the mobile generation of alternatives is now here.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Funny, David, but several "name brand" consultants and others like Jerry DelColliano note almost daily the demise (and despise) of terrestrial radio in the "youth format" demos. I'm sure you've noted. The future doesn't lie in AM, certainly, and FM is far from serving the needs of many, as witnessed by the posts here. "Traditional" formats must be failing somehow, or they wouldn't be brought up so often. The future doesn't bode well for these formats, like "Free FM" and others that corporate radio isn't paying attention to.

Tom Kelly in Philly is still trying to figure it out and he put $5-mil on the line for an AM as different as they come with "Skin Radio." So where are they to be found? No where. I find you much more of a forward thinker.

As DelColliano frequently notes, as he did last week:

"For those of you who read me regularly you know that the future of terrestrial broadcasting is in question due mainly to the fact that the next generation which hasn't fully impacted broadcasters yet is rejecting radio. Part of their reasoning is that "it sucks" -- and we have heard that many times before from young people."

They "hate" the programming offered today ... when the mobile generation of alternatives is now here.

Broadcasters just have to get over the fact that 1997 was 10 years ago. They need to become a music discovery and lifestyle service. FM radio will continue to be a viable alternative to streaming internet for at least another 5-10 years, as the bitrate on streaming mobile is poor quality than FM and there are 200,000,000 cars in the US with built in FM radios. After 2015, its anybody's guess. FM radio has to do something to draw back in the youth demos.

I wonder if the industry was having this same discussion in 1992-93 right before alternative became the industry standard?

 

[oaktree]

Who said anything about 1997? He's on YOUR side today ... 2007.

 

[adma]

Then why are three 18-34 stations, KROQ, KIIS and KPWR the top three in billings in LA? In fact, two of these are 12-34 stations.

Ah, but imaging aside, is their most significant "growth" among 12-34? Their gains could well be because the over-34s are no longer behaving in set radio-demo-category ways--they're today's stations for Mom + Dad to embarrass themselves with...

 

[LinoNYC]

Ah, but imaging aside, is their most significant "growth" among 12-34? Their gains could well be because the over-34s are no longer behaving in set radio-demo-category ways--they're today's stations for Mom + Dad to embarrass themselves with...

In my skeptical mind, whenever anyone trots out a swath of stats as wide and divergent as "18-'34" I feel they are just toying with me.

Media in general, radio in particular there is a huge difference from one end of that sample to the other. While the upper end of that sample have IPODs etc. they also have the radio habit, twelve to eighteen, in my recent experience does not.

There seems to be a disconnect between what Mr. Gleason-Edwardo along with a recent NAB presentation claim and what most other consultants and virtually every investment house forcast: radio has a big younger demographics problem looming in the very forseeable future.

As for Brooklyndon's format suggestion well, (his) hope springs eternal.

However, this and other niche formats would be a good marketing tool for HD-2 carriers and actually lure younger listeners back to this "digital underground" -and the radio habit.

Lino

 

[oaktree]

...twelve to eighteen, in my recent experience does not.

There seems to be a disconnect between what Mr. Gleason-Edwardo along with a recent NAB presentation claim and what most other consultants and virtually every investment house forecast: radio has a big younger demographics problem looming in the very forseeable future.


Someone gets it.

Thanks ... good post and I, for one, think you're spot on.

 

[adma]

And again, there's the issue of the 2007-style over-34s--I've read surprise expected over Z100's strength among older listeners; but, think about it. How *is* it surprising?

Secretly, CHR has become the new AC; because 30/40somethings don't behave the way they did 20 yrs ago, or the way that radio execs think they still do. They're more prone to embracing than rejecting the "contemporary", they're not prone to being hyper-reactive about "hard rock" or "rap", etc. About the only way they're "showing their age" is through their identification with radio, with CHR, with the medium of their youth. And believe it or not, those are what pass for 2007-style casual/conservative music consumers--the simple fact that they're relying on such radio proves it.

Same goes for "advertiser friendliness"; 18-34 as a smokescreen for older, just as cosmetics companies use young models and starlets in order to reach older.

As for what happened to AC and its core listenership in this breach; well, consider who on earth would listen to Delilah.

In my skeptical mind, whenever anyone trots out a swath of stats as wide and divergent as "18-'34" I feel they are just toying with me.

Media in general, radio in particular there is a huge difference from one end of that sample to the other. While the upper end of that sample have IPODs etc. they also have the radio habit, twelve to eighteen, in my recent experience does not.

But remember, too, that it isn't just the vertical division btw/ the 18's + the 34's; the non-uniform-bloc issue also increasingly divides itself laterally, according to cultural and/or class lines. It isn't just young listeners; it's also what might charitably be called the "white middle" that's in eclipse.

And, given that he specializes in the Latin-American "growth demo", David Eduardo ought to know that as well as anybody--though I don't know why he (or for that matter, his critics) never directly addresses that particular cultural point, unless it's somehow deemed too "politically loaded". (But why should it be? Personally, I'd take the new salsa-fied radio order over the Archie Bunker-level cultural idiocy a lot of "white" radio's been reduced to.)

 

[davideduardo]

And, given that he specializes in the Latin-American "growth demo", David Eduardo ought to know that as well as anybody--though I don't know why he (or for that matter, his critics) never directly addresses that particular cultural point, unless it's somehow deemed too "politically loaded". (But why should it be? Personally, I'd take the new salsa-fied radio order over the Archie Bunker-level cultural idiocy a lot of "white" radio's been reduced to.)

The problem is that this is not a simple issue. The simplistic view is that Hispanics listen to Spanish language radio becasue they don't speak English well or at all. The fact is that Hispanics, even into significant grades of assimilation listen to Spanish radio because of the content as much or moreso than the langauge.

Just because a person becomes relatively proficient in English does not mean that they are going to start likeing American rock and giving up the daily dose of salsa or merengue or rancheras or whatever their national origins suggest. Even in my own case, I can not listen to the vast majority of English music stations because the music is totally unfamiliar and the styles are "foreign" to my life experience. I can listen to oldies, as those 60's and 70's songs were what was on the radio when I was in high school in Ecuador; I can not get into hard rock or smooth jazz or many other genres as the music is meaningless to me even if I understand the lyrics.

So, while there is a language and cultural issue, the real reason Hispanics who listen to Spanish music radio do so is because those stations play the music they like best, in any language. At the risk of using a stereotype to create yeat another stereotype, this is the same thing that makes it more likely to find country listeners in Dallas than in Brooklyn.

 

[adma]

However, that still evades a certain cultural point; why is it that the generalized "Hispanic demographic" has been genuinely more competent in generating a valid, non-dysfunctional "community" out of the radio sphere? To the point that I reckon even a lot of "white middle" New Yorkers would rather hand the medium over to nonwhite/Hispanic/ethnic than let the same old tasteless hacks and morons and Mainellis try and fail to salvage it on their own supposed behalf...

 

[davideduardo]

However, that still evades a certain cultural point; why is it that the generalized "Hispanic demographic" has been genuinely more competent in generating a valid, non-dysfunctional "community" out of the radio sphere? To the point that I reckon even a lot of "white middle" New Yorkers would rather hand the medium over to nonwhite/Hispanic/ethnic than let the same old tasteless hacks and morons and Mainellis try and fail to salvage it on their own supposed behalf...

I have no idea what your point is.