HOW ANGRY IS TOO ANGRY?

[amfmxm]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

amfmxm,
Why would whether or not someone is a fan of higher education affect your emotions?
Why is someone else's opinion of higher education that important to your feelings?
Should we also, conversely, be sorry for you if you are a fan of higher education? Wouldn't that be "balance?" I'm just trying to think at it from all the angles presented.

You know that conservative talk radio says we should all take up arms against the government but can't provide one example without going into that post full of sarcasm about how pure conservative talk radio is?
Apparently, higher education taught you that you can tell someone is "on The Right" just because their opinion of higher education is not as strong as yours. And that applying sarcasm is better than showing proof of your work.
So much for "critical thinking." So much for "thinking" at all, when you get to the point of expressing that your emotions are determined by someone else's expressed opinions. As if that's all the information a thinking person should need about someone else's life to evoke "sorrow."
Sounds like the "re-education" might have involved more than just "critical thinking."

Huh?

I'm sorry, Quad, but I'm not following your train of thought. None of this affects my "emotions."

If you've been paying any attention at all to the continuous flood of polling information, not to mention voter analysis from recent elections, you'll recognize that conservative support is strongest among less educated and liberal support is strongest among the best educated. Read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas"--a best-seller from a few years ago--profiling how political conservatives use social issues (abortion, guns, race & religion) to get the poorest and least educated to vote against their own best economic interests.

Knowledge is power. The more education a person has, the better prepared they are to understand complex economic issues affecting their own lives. The less education a person has, the easier it is to control them--and the easier it is to get them riled up over imaginary threats.

The topic of this thread is "How Angry is Too Angry?" As Mr. Cooke first suggested, there seems to be evidence that conservative talk radio is engaged in pumping up its easily-led listeners into taking violent action against the current federal administration as well as Democrats and liberals and anyone opposed to the conservative movement.

As such, this entire thread is an indictment against conservative talk radio.

And those of us involved in the radio business for our livelihood need to consider these ideas pretty seriously.

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "...this entire thread is an indictment against conservative talk radio."

...against Talk Radio BUSINESS-AS-USUAL.

But, as the late Jim Croce sang, on many of the AMs that are talkers today, "it doesn't have to be that way."

 

[Silkie]

Re: RE "...this entire thread is an indictment against conservative talk radio."

...against Talk Radio BUSINESS-AS-USUAL.

But, as the late Jim Croce sang, on many of the AMs that are talkers today, "it doesn't have to be that way."

LOL - using music radio to make your point. Is that how you advise your clients? The appropriate way is to put it to music, imitate style and answer a music station hundreds of miles away when the target is not even paying attention to them? Comin' up is the news right after we hear from another answer in music. ROFL

 

[Holland Cooke]

"using music radio to make your point. Is that how you advise your clients?"

Hello from the conference room at a radio station, where, on the dang consultant's advice, a host is bumping in/out of talk-about-Wall Street/situation-in-Greece with GUESS WHAT Frankie Valli song?

 

[gr8oldies]

Ok, we have learned that educated people believe in the largest possible government and the highest possible taxation, and if conservatives weren't so ignorant they would realize that liberal elites are best equipped to tell them how to live their lives.
Which begs the question: why is it the Democrats who scream like banshees when someone dares suggest bringing an ID to the polling place, are insistent on dragging the homeless to the polls with the promise of free stuff, want to give felons the right to vote, and can't wait to give amnesty to millions of illegals so they can vote Democratic too.
So it's settled. Anyone who has the slightest disagreement with a liberal does so out of ignorance. Talk radio, the internet and any place that conservatives can communicate must be shut down immediately. Only liberal elites should be allowed to express opinions because they are just so much smarter. Then we will have one party rule and everyone will have a job in the People's Factory

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Hey: gr8oldies....

wanna talk about radio?

We get nowhere creating make-believe caricatures of what each group might look like, smell like, or act like.

I would suggest that it would be a legitimate topic to discuss whether radio and radio management are responsible for the American public having these Halloween costume party concepts about the mentality, the grooming and the affluence of our citizenry linked to their political concepts and contacts.

I don't think I have ever interviewed a congressman (either party) who didn't have some misgivings about some of the people who supported him/her and came to campaign rallies. They are more likely to be candid about that before or after a broadcast. They must be careful about not offending their supporters. The point is that all groups you can define in the political spectrum... Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, Tea-Party, Coffee-Party, Populists or whatever have a rich weave of characters including a few wackadoodles.

Do the talk radio rock stars we have been discussing spend much time helping us understand who are the core fabric and who are the wackadoodles? Do the wingnuts get screened out, or do the screeners sometimes move them to the top of the queue?

The hearings in congress in the last week involved asking Wall Street bankers to comment on how well they handled their FIDUCIARY responsibilities, and did they feel they even had any FIDUCIARY responsibilities in running their business.

If you were hosting a talk radio program and congress set up some hearings and asked you to come before the committee, they might ask a question like this:

Radio licenses are granted to operators and we seem to have disagreements in this country about the FIDUCIARY responsibilities broadcasters may or may not have. When you do your broadcast, do you have responsibility to manage the content of your program, both what you say and what other participants utter. Do you have a FIDUCIARY responsibility to the listening public to make sure that after listening to your program they have a somewhat accurate picture of the topics and people that have been discussed?

How would this answers go over:

"Mr. Congressman, This is a country of freedom and I can color, distort and malign people and groups any way I want to. I don't know who this FIDUCIARY guy is that you keep talking about. Does he work for the FCC?"

 

[quadraphonic]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

amfmxm,
Why would whether or not someone is a fan of higher education affect your emotions?
Why is someone else's opinion of higher education that important to your feelings?
Should we also, conversely, be sorry for you if you are a fan of higher education? Wouldn't that be "balance?" I'm just trying to think at it from all the angles presented.

You know that conservative talk radio says we should all take up arms against the government but can't provide one example without going into that post full of sarcasm about how pure conservative talk radio is?
Apparently, higher education taught you that you can tell someone is "on The Right" just because their opinion of higher education is not as strong as yours. And that applying sarcasm is better than showing proof of your work.
So much for "critical thinking." So much for "thinking" at all, when you get to the point of expressing that your emotions are determined by someone else's expressed opinions. As if that's all the information a thinking person should need about someone else's life to evoke "sorrow."
Sounds like the "re-education" might have involved more than just "critical thinking."

Huh?

I'm sorry, Quad, but I'm not following your train of thought. None of this affects my "emotions."

You said you feel sorry for Silkie because her vision of higher education does not match yours. That's an emotion.

Now you feel sorry for me too. That's an emotion.

You went into that other sarcastic post about how great and pure people were saying conservative talk radio is, and nobody's said anything of the sort. They just asked for you to give an example of what you were saying. Sarcasm comes out of frustration, that's an emotion. You're expressing them, people don't have to go looking for how things are affecting your "emotions."

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

If you've been paying any attention at all to the continuous flood of polling information, not to mention voter analysis from recent elections, you'll recognize that conservative support is strongest among less educated and liberal support is strongest among the best educated. Read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas"--a best-seller from a few years ago--profiling how political conservatives use social issues (abortion, guns, race & religion) to get the poorest and least educated to vote against their own best economic interests.

You're kidding, right? All conservatives are dumb, and all liberals are highly educated, enlightened beings. Is that what you're trying to say?

The topic of this thread is "How Angry is Too Angry?" As Mr. Cooke first suggested, there seems to be evidence that conservative talk radio is engaged in pumping up its easily-led listeners into taking violent action against the current federal administration as well as Democrats and liberals and anyone opposed to the conservative movement.

Holland asked the question because it's a topic for discussion. There is absolutely NO evidence that conservative talk is doing anything of the sort, just like there is no evidence that liberal programming on TV or radio did likewise in the previous 8 years, despite even lower standards of conduct. I noticed that everyone here conveniently ignored my specific example of Randi Rhodes specifically saying that Bush should be executed like Fredo Corleone. That's MUCH worse than anything that Rush, Hannity, Beck or even Savage have ever said. So stop acting like you have the moral high ground here. You don't. We have a difference of opinion, nothing more.

As such, this entire thread is an indictment against conservative talk radio.

No, this thread is an indictment of pompous know-it-alls, of which you're obviously the leader in this thread. We're trying to have a legitimate discussion and you insist on insulting people. Maybe they'll stand for it, but I've had enough. I came to this board to learn about the business of radio, not to be demeaned from someone who thinks he's better than me.

and those of us involved in the radio business for our livelihood need to consider these ideas pretty seriously.

I don't know what you do, nor do I really care. You're being demeaning and insulting to others here, and I've had enough of it.

 

[amfmxm]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

You said you feel sorry for Silkie because her vision of higher education does not match yours. That's an emotion.

Now you feel sorry for me too. That's an emotion.

You went into that other sarcastic post about how great and pure people were saying conservative talk radio is, and nobody's said anything of the sort. They just asked for you to give an example of what you were saying. Sarcasm comes out of frustration, that's an emotion. You're expressing them, people don't have to go looking for how things are affecting your "emotions."

Oh, well, no tears were shed, that's for sure.

I suppose that in my reply to your post I was just using a figure of speech, softening the otherwise harsh observation that I had trouble making sense of your jumbled ideas. In Silkie's case, I suppose that saying "I feel sorry for you" is a somewhat kinder way of saying "You're stupid for defending a lack of education." It's kind of like defending failure or defending laziness.

Yeah, I do have trouble empathizing with people who intentionally avoid learning.

Look, all that aside, the topic here is the extreme anger--or appearance of anger--being pushed by conservative talk radio hosts & hostesses and what it means for the radio industry. For the record, we have righty talk on some stations and lefty talk on others. Even back in the Bush II administrations, the progressives weren't calling for an overthrow of government or encouraging listeners to show up with guns. They just don't. Since the right lost the 2008 election, though, they've been off the hook.

I not afraid that any of Thom Hartmann's listeners are ever going to show up at some local church and start shooting up the place--or show up at a political rally and try to gun-down a congressman. But with Beck's listeners (and, yes, we have him on one of our AM sticks--leading into Rush), that kind of scenario is a real possibility. (See Knoxville, Edwardsville, Pittsburgh, The Smithsonian, et al).

And if it happens in our town, are we--as broadcasters--responsible? We put these guys on the air, and we can take 'em off.

And if we're not responsible, why not? Who is?

Again, I think that's what Holland is getting at...

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

Look, all that aside, the topic here is the extreme anger--or appearance of anger--being pushed by conservative talk radio hosts & hostesses and what it means for the radio industry. For the record, we have righty talk on some stations and lefty talk on others. Even back in the Bush II administrations, the progressives weren't calling for an overthrow of government or encouraging listeners to show up with guns. They just don't. Since the right lost the 2008 election, though, they've been off the hook.

Taking George Bush out on a fishing boat and putting one in the back of his head isn't overthrow of government with guns?

I not afraid that any of Thom Hartmann's listeners are ever going to show up at some local church and start shooting up the place--or show up at a political rally and try to gun-down a congressman. But with Beck's listeners (and, yes, we have him on one of our AM sticks--leading into Rush), that kind of scenario is a real possibility. (See Knoxville, Edwardsville, Pittsburgh, The Smithsonian, et al).

None of those guys were Glenn Beck listeners. Just like Tim McVeigh didn't listen to Rush when Clinton started this whole thing in the 90's.

As I've said before, conservatives are no more easily manipulated than the folks who showed up at the polls for the 2008 election and voted for a word. There are dumb liberals, and dumb conservatives. On the flip side there are smart libs and smart conservatives. I guess since no one else is going to do it, I'll dig up the actual numbers. From a Columbia university study.

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/archives/2009/07/democrats_do_be.html

As you can see by that study, Democrats are strong with the high end and low end of the spectrum. This means graduate degrees and high school drop outs. Republicans do better with high school grads and bachelor level college graduates.

Your picture of weak minded zombies just itching to assassinate the president on Glenn Beck's command is not only inaccurate, but shows how grossly ill-informed you are yourself. I really didn't want to take this whole deal this far, but someone had to put an end to this slander with actual fact.

 

[quadraphonic]

Re: RE "When Glenn cries, we all cry..."

You said you feel sorry for Silkie because her vision of higher education does not match yours. That's an emotion.

Now you feel sorry for me too. That's an emotion.

You went into that other sarcastic post about how great and pure people were saying conservative talk radio is, and nobody's said anything of the sort. They just asked for you to give an example of what you were saying. Sarcasm comes out of frustration, that's an emotion. You're expressing them, people don't have to go looking for how things are affecting your "emotions."

Oh, well, no tears were shed, that's for sure.

I suppose that in my reply to your post I was just using a figure of speech, softening the otherwise harsh observation that I had trouble making sense of your jumbled ideas.

My ideas were pretty clearly laid out there.
They all related to the quote I posted from your statements.
Maybe your emotionalism kept you from tying them together?
Just because you didn't follow them, and hadn't thought of things "critically" from that perspective, obviously, doesn't mean they were "jumbled."
Fat lot of good higher education does if you don't use the "critical thinking" man.

In Silkie's case, I suppose that saying "I feel sorry for you" is a somewhat kinder way of saying "You're stupid for defending a lack of education." It's kind of like defending failure or defending laziness.

So your idea of making your point stronger is to be offensive?
Clearly, not a reasonable move on your part.
Maybe she's not impressed with the higher education system. That's not the same as "defending failure or defending laziness."
Did you ask before you assumed?

Yeah, I do have trouble empathizing with people who intentionally avoid learning.

Who said they do that? Is college the only kind of learning there is?
Where are you enrolled right now? What classes are you taking?

Look, all that aside,

Don't just brush it off man. Think about it, "critically."
You're responding the same as the people you fear [and you fear them for apparently no reason, because you can't name one example when they were goaded into violence by a host].

the topic here is the extreme anger--or appearance of anger--being pushed by conservative talk radio hosts & hostesses and what it means for the radio industry. For the record, we have righty talk on some stations and lefty talk on others. Even back in the Bush II administrations, the progressives weren't calling for an overthrow of government or encouraging listeners to show up with guns. They just don't. Since the right lost the 2008 election, though, they've been off the hook.

They're "off the hook" kind of like when people discussing an issue get personal, go on the offensive, and can't give one example of what they said themselves.
I really don't see much difference between what you're doing and what you're decrying. There's a difference between you and what you're mocking, but they're not necessarily inferior to you, like you seem to think.

I not afraid that any of Thom Hartmann's listeners are ever going to show up at some local church and start shooting up the place--or show up at a political rally and try to gun-down a congressman. But with Beck's listeners (and, yes, we have him on one of our AM sticks--leading into Rush), that kind of scenario is a real possibility. (See Knoxville, Edwardsville, Pittsburgh, The Smithsonian, et al).

And if it happens in our town, are we--as broadcasters--responsible? We put these guys on the air, and we can take 'em off.

Dude, the emotionalism is right now, before our eyes, happening between your brain and your computer.
And you don't even recognize it.

And if we're not responsible, why not? Who is?

Again, I think that's what Holland is getting at...

So Those People will respond with their emotions, and it will lead to danger.
You will respond with your emotions, as you've done here, and it will somehow be all controlled, and in check.
Or we should gloss over it because it didn't start out being "the topic."
I hope that all works out.

 

[amfmxm]

I'm chastened. You are so right.

Have a peaceful weekend.

PS: Randi Rhodes? Really? I forgot she was even on the radio. I had to scour the web to find active affiliates, and it looks like there are a few--but none within hundreds of miles of me. It looks like there are some chunks of the U.S. where you can drive for thousands of miles without stumbling onto an affiliate. I guess she's on XM, but I haven't heard her in years. Never liked her act, anyway.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

PS: Randi Rhodes? Really? I forgot she was even on the radio. I had to scour the web to find active affiliates, and it looks like there are a few--but none within hundreds of miles of me. It looks like there are some chunks of the U.S. where you can drive for thousands of miles without stumbling onto an affiliate. I guess she's on XM, but I haven't heard her in years. Never liked her act, anyway.

She's parlayed getting booted from Air America for those comments into being syndicated by Premiere. I thought she was doing quite well.

 

[gr8oldies]

So Holland, are you strongly recommending that your clients drop conservative shows immediately? Since all non-liberals are stupid and prone to violence I would think you would.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Regulars: Join in...

Holland, are you strongly recommending that your clients drop conservative shows immediately? Since all non-liberals are stupid and prone to violence I would think you would.

Regular radio-info.com readers, join-in. I've recited the following often-enough here-and-elsewhere, that you can probably join me in unison:

I might be the only one in Talk Radio who thinks his opinion DOESN'T matter.
Oh I have one.
In fact, I have two.
If my client station is the Rush Limbaugh affiliate, he's the biggest star in radio.
If my client competes with Rush Limbaugh, he's the biggest buffoon in radio.
Ditto Glenn Beck, who voiced this promo which I scripted:
http://hollandcookemedia.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/talk-dont-puke/

Let me be clear: I do NOT think Sean Hannity is a buffoon.
Like the others, I play with AND against him, here-and-there.
But:
1. Sean has been exceedingly friendly, generous, and supportive to me and my affiliated clients; and
2. Unlike Limbaugh and Beck -- who have admitted otherwise -- I believe that Sean believes-in what-he-advocates on-air.

Remember that scene in "The Fugitive?"
Just before Harrison Ford jumped off the dam?
He hollered back at Tommy Lee Jones, "I didn't kill my wife!"
Tommy Lee hollered back, "I don't care!"
It's like that.
How-I-feel doesn't matter.
What helps client stations build ratings and revenue does.

One-of-four reasons stations hire consultants is because there's too much at stake to experiment.
Thus the value of success templates.
Arbitron works/doesn't-work the same way everywhere.
That said, what-gets-implemented needs to apply to LOCAL circumstances.
The 15-night road trip which ends tonight was particularly instructive in that regard.

Or do think you should program the station to YOUR OWN taste?
Wouldn't that be like packing a music station playlist with YOUR OWN favorite songs?

Have a good weekend,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[DonTheTrucker]

I think some folks are getting confused. Holland started this thread and is approaching this from a radio business perspective. If I'm reading his posts correctly, he thinks that the glut of conservative hosts and the "angry" tone is bad for business. Others here are trying to make the typical case that anyone who disagrees with them is a violent revolutionary who wants to kill everyone in Washington D.C. These are two completely different things.

 

[Silkie]

I think some folks are getting confused. Holland started this thread and is approaching this from a radio business perspective. If I'm reading his posts correctly, he thinks that the glut of conservative hosts and the "angry" tone is bad for business. Others here are trying to make the typical case that anyone who disagrees with them is a violent revolutionary who wants to kill everyone in Washington D.C. These are two completely different things.

Seems to me he's more of a heater than anything.

Look, Silkie, calling colleges and universities "grand re-education camps" tells me that you're not a fan of higher education. I'm sorry for you.

But, as Holland suggested above, it helps explain why you're on The Right.

You're the target. Frank Luntz is shoveling the talking points and you're eating them up.

I said nothing about being averse to higher education.

After Rush Limbaugh mused that the Obama "regime" may have caused that Gulf oil rig to explode, to put-the-stink-on offshore drilling...

That is just plain silly. It is like saying that he is really reigning in Wall Street and Goldman Sachs after he got more money from them than anyone, just like he got more than anyone for years and years from BP f/k/a Amoco f/k/a Standard Oil a/k/a the Rockefeller Oil Trust - which goes to both parties.

Knowledge is power. The more education a person has, the better prepared they are to understand complex economic issues affecting their own lives. The less education a person has, the easier it is to control them--and the easier it is to get them riled up over imaginary threats.

So my attendance at a college, a university, the American Institute of Banking and several years additional higher education beyond that was good for me then, correct? Just to set the record straight about where I stand on higher education.

But, as the late Jim Croce sang, on many of the AMs that are talkers today, "it doesn't have to be that way."

Really? That song was about talk radio? And here I thought it related to Christmas. Maybe you'll want to refresh yourself on "You Don't Mess With Jim", especially to somebody who knows him and his music better than you might assume.

Hello from the conference room at a radio station, where, on the dang consultant's advice, a host is bumping in/out of talk-about-Wall Street/situation-in-Greece with GUESS WHAT Frankie Valli song?

While the oldies station jock also bumped in and out of jaw jacking with guess what? Jim Croce music.

We get nowhere creating make-believe caricatures of what each group might look like, smell like, or act like.

I believe that was directed to gr8oldies, who said nothing about what anyone looks like, smells like or acts like. I find that an interesting statement, frankly.

So Holland, are you strongly recommending that your clients drop conservative shows immediately? Since all non-liberals are stupid and prone to violence I would think you would.

The peace loving people of Greece, who love their goodies and freebies, would bear witness to that, no doubt.

 

[Holland Cooke]

WHY he's one-of-my-two-favorite-currently-working DJs!

Maybe you'll want to refresh yourself on "You Don't Mess With Jim"

GREAT bit last week by CBS-FM's always-witty, always-concise, always-prepped midday jock Bob Shannon:
He'd prepped the clip and had it ready-to-go as "You Don't Mess Around With Jim" was fading.
He quipped, "Did you hear him mention 'Wheel of Fortune?'" and hit the clip, Croce, from the song, "SAY JACK..."

 

[Silkie]

Maybe you'll want to refresh yourself on "You Don't Mess With Jim"

GREAT bit last week by CBS-FM's always-witty, always-concise, always-prepped midday jock Bob Shannon:
He'd prepped the clip and had it ready-to-go as "You Don't Mess Around With Jim" was fading.
He quipped, "Did you hear him mention 'Wheel of Fortune?'" and hit the clip, Croce, from the song, "SAY JACK..."

Gotcha. I was not referring to CBS-FM.  How good are your memory and your reading retention? Mine are exemplary. Bet the CBS hosts don't order out phone and e-mail spam service either.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Re: Regulars: Join in...

Holland, are you strongly recommending that your clients drop conservative shows immediately? Since all non-liberals are stupid and prone to violence I would think you would.

Regular radio-info.com readers, join-in. I've recited the following often-enough here-and-elsewhere, that you can probably join me in unison:

I might be the only one in Talk Radio who thinks his opinion DOESN'T matter.
Oh I have one.
In fact, I have two.
If my client station is the Rush Limbaugh affiliate, he's the biggest star in radio.
If my client competes with Rush Limbaugh, he's the biggest buffoon in radio.
Ditto Glenn Beck, who voiced this promo which I scripted:
http://hollandcookemedia.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/talk-dont-puke/

Let me be clear: I do NOT think Sean Hannity is a buffoon.
Like the others, I play with AND against him, here-and-there.
But:
1. Sean has been exceedingly friendly, generous, and supportive to me and my affiliated clients; and
2. Unlike Limbaugh and Beck -- who have admitted otherwise -- I believe that Sean believes-in what-he-advocates on-air.

Remember that scene in "The Fugitive?"
Just before Harrison Ford jumped off the dam?
He hollered back at Tommy Lee Jones, "I didn't kill my wife!"
Tommy Lee hollered back, "I don't care!"
It's like that.
How-I-feel doesn't matter.
What helps client stations build ratings and revenue does.

One-of-four reasons stations hire consultants is because there's too much at stake to experiment.
Thus the value of success templates.
Arbitron works/doesn't-work the same way everywhere.
That said, what-gets-implemented needs to apply to LOCAL circumstances.
The 15-night road trip which ends tonight was particularly instructive in that regard.

Or do think you should program the station to YOUR OWN taste?
Wouldn't that be like packing a music station playlist with YOUR OWN favorite songs?

Have a good weekend,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

Holland, I saw no reason to add my two cents in the debate. In your radio and TV appearances with Ed Schultz, you made your case rather well.

The ones who are giving you the most grief on here are posters whom I've sparred with on more than one occasion, and what usually happens is the topic not only goes to TIO, but it eventually disappears.

For reasons I won't go into, I've decided to stay out of the conversation and just laugh at the comments from those I've sparred with. ;D

You have a good weekend yourself, Holland.