HOW ANGRY IS TOO ANGRY?

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Holland, nice plug for your article"

Thank you.
ANY praise here is conspicuous.

Your partisanship is showing. Which is OK if you aren't pretending to be non-partisan.

NOT pretending!
How useful-to-the-conversation would any of us be without a point of view?

I just happen to think that mine doesn't matter.

But my fear-for consequences-inherent-in-the-status quo is genuine.

I think you're underestimating the rationality of the average American radio listener.

It sure isn't The Average American Radio Listener we need to fear.
Soccer mom is MUCH too busy to jet-off to Pakistan for the long-weekend dirty-bomb workshop.
She's the-other-90-to-95%-of radio's cume NOT taking Repetitive Rightie Radio seriously.

But it doesn't take too many of that 5-10% who represent what-radio-Sales-calls "frequency" to produce a real troublemaker.
Of EITHER stripe, as history demonstrates (i.e., The Liberal Oswald).

This Times Square would-be bomber might just be another bumbling wanna-be.
But they won't all be.
And those-who-recruit-'em appreciate Beck sobbing that we're all being lead to "SLAUGHTER!" etc.

Your comments are also welcome at http://hollandcookemedia.wordpress.com/2010/04/30/has-glenn-beck-peaked/

HC

 

[del_griffith]

Holland:

When you talk to your clients, what's their reaction to all of this?

Are they also concerned? Or are they so busy that they haven't given it any thought? Does the tone and temper of much of today's talk reflect the feelings they have on the same topics? Are they so busy raising trying to impress wall street or make the next over leveraged mortgage payment? Do they not care?

 

[Holland Cooke]

"When you talk to your clients, what's their reaction to all of this?"

Station managers are genuinely busy; and those-I-know-who've-heard-of radio-info.com shrug-off the anonymous majority here as disgruntled ex-staffers or unaccomplished wanna-be's.

Certainly many are, as you'll glean from the many lit matches that get tossed into The Consequence-Free Conversation here. Admittedly, it takes a lot of filtering to follow the useful conversation here, but I think it's worth it. There's too much at stake NOT to have shoptalk SOMEWHERE. And many-who-choose-not-to-identify-themselves probably shouldn't, to keep things uncomplicated at work.

Obviously I think this is a useful forum. After all, I-am-to-here like Cliff and Norm were to "Cheers."

Are they so busy trying to impress Wall Street or make the next over leveraged mortgage payment? Do they not care?

As I've mentioned elsewhere here:

1. When Rush Limbaugh says something REAL inappropriate -- whether-or-not it was on purpose, to rise-above the cacophony -- affiliate managers will hear-ABOUT-it, rather than HEAR IT. They don't listen as much as you think. They can't. They're busy with Magic, or Kiss, or Froggy.

2. There IS concern about Sean's tone. I keep hearing it characterized as "shrill;" and hearing concern that he's reading paragraphs.

One of Talk Radio's biggest problems is its owners' indifference.
The stations that the Beck/Limbaugh/Hannity "holy trinity" ended up on were market faves in their Top 40 heyday.
Big staffs. Car giveaways. People-in-the-parking-lot to pick-up bumperstickers.
Now they're "the AM" that management doesn't-have-to-pay-attention-to. Plug-N-Play.

Other than the great big obvious exception, most owners aren't using The Trinity to advance a political agenda.
But managers who work for that company are instructed NOT to think.

What has been useful is the looming specter of PPM. NOW there's renewed interest in The Fundamentals...stuff that mattered all-along.

 

[Schuyler]

Re: "When you talk to your clients, what's their reaction to all of this?"

..... After all, I-am-to-here like Cliff and Norm were to "Cheers.".....

More like the lovechild of Frasier Crane and Carla Tortelli, I'd say...

8)

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: RE "Holland, nice plug for your article"

It sure isn't The Average American Radio Listener we need to fear.
Soccer mom is MUCH too busy to jet-off to Pakistan for the long-weekend dirty-bomb workshop.
She's the-other-90-to-95%-of radio's cume NOT taking Repetitive Rightie Radio seriously.

I've heard this repeated over and over. Let's get one thing straight. This guy in Times Square didn't get his ideas from talk radio. NONE of the attacks in the past 20 years got their attacks from talk radio. This hypothetical right-wing attack on America spurred on by hateful radio jocks has been predicted for the past 15+ years, and yet it hasn't happened. Perhaps its time to just accept the fact that it isn't going to happen.

We can discuss whether right leaning talk is repetitive and boring. That's subjective and I'd probably agree with you on much of that. But there is absolutely not one single shred of evidence that a single person has ever committed a single act of violence at the behest of Rush Limbaugh. Get over it.

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Get over it."

This guy in Times Square didn't get his ideas from talk radio.

If you say so based on interrogation transcripts, I'll concede the point.

NONE of the attacks in the past 20 years got their attacks from talk radio. This hypothetical right-wing attack on America spurred on by hateful radio jocks has been predicted for the past 15+ years, and yet it hasn't happened. Perhaps its time to just accept the fact that it isn't going to happen.

Timothy McVeigh struck just 15 years ago.
As for that guy who shot-up the Holocaust Museum: WHO KNOWS what his pre-sets were?
Rather than listing various crackpots who've popped-up in-between, we can agree-to-disagree on your first point.
And I CONTINUE TO HOPE I'M VERY WRONG that your second point doesn't turn-into another "Drill, baby, drill" type epitaph.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: RE "Get over it."

As for that guy who shot-up the Holocaust Museum: WHO KNOWS what his pre-sets were?

That's what I'm trying to say. We don't know any of this. There's no evidence that any of this inflammatory talk has any effect on violence. As I've pointed out more than once, we just went through 8 years of everyone sitting in front of a TV camera and a good portion of those behind radio mics saying even more inflammatory and vile things, and there wasn't a single incident of violence inspired by it. Are we to believe that crazy liberals are somehow less violent than crazy conservatives?

If you think the stuff we hear on AM and FM radio is bad, you should see some of the stuff on the Internet or hear what's on some shortwave radio shows. If this sort of thing were as big of a catalyst as we're being led to believe it is now, we'd be having attacks every other week. The rarity of these incidents is a pretty good indicator that they're just insane people or foreign terrorists.

 

[Holland Cooke]

"no evidence that any of this inflammatory talk has any effect on violence."

That's it!
Now I want to see YOUR birth certificate.

JUST kidding...

Are we to believe that crazy liberals are somehow less violent than crazy conservatives?

Of EITHER stripe, as history demonstrates (i.e., The Liberal Oswald).

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: "no evidence that any of this inflammatory talk has any effect on violence."

That's it!
Now I want to see YOUR birth certificate.

JUST kidding...

I don't see a laugh out loud smiley, so just pretend there's one here.

I do think this is a good conversation to have, by the way. It's a legitimate issue, and conversations like this have a way of shaping the way the overall political discourse takes place. Just because some angry guy on the radio isn't responsible for random acts of violence that take place, doesn't mean that it's the most productive way to discuss issues. Nor do I think it's a good way to run a radio station, airing nothing but angry shows all day. I think in that way, we're in some agreement.

 

[gr8oldies]

Actually the people who trashed Asheville were college age people who flew in. Anarchists with Mom and Dad's Visa Card.

 

[del_griffith]

Re: RE "Get over it."

My understanding is McVeigh was a frequent listener to talk radio. Mostly the shortwave stuff. But it was still an influence.

I listened to quite a bit of the WWCR and WHRI stuff in the 90's because it was different from the Rush, Liddy and Farber stuff of the day.

And I've sort of made reference to hit here a few times, but Beck's current program is not all that different than what the shortwavers were doing back during that time. Seriously. Beck stops just shy of where theshortwavers went during those times.

The major difference is that the shortwavers were pretty much limited to that. Shortwave. Beck has been mainstreamed which has to a point legitimized him.

This guy in Times Square didn't get his ideas from talk radio.

If you say so based on interrogation transcripts, I'll concede the point.

NONE of the attacks in the past 20 years got their attacks from talk radio. This hypothetical right-wing attack on America spurred on by hateful radio jocks has been predicted for the past 15+ years, and yet it hasn't happened. Perhaps its time to just accept the fact that it isn't going to happen.

Timothy McVeigh struck just 15 years ago.
As for that guy who shot-up the Holocaust Museum: WHO KNOWS what his pre-sets were?
Rather than listing various crackpots who've popped-up in-between, we can agree-to-disagree on your first point.
And I CONTINUE TO HOPE I'M VERY WRONG that your second point doesn't turn-into another "Drill, baby, drill" type epitaph.

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Beck has been mainstreamed"

Beck's current program is not all that different than what the shortwavers were doing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edpz9f5LVaY

 

[Silkie]

This thread, as expected, is beginning to look increasingly like a cheesy TMZ tabloid, the sort of thing that comes about when street urchins seek to gain respectability.

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Re: RE "Get over it."

Beck stops just shy of where theshortwavers went during those times.

Does he go as far as to say the president should be taken out on a fishing boat and shot in the back of the head, like Fredo Corleone?

(And yes, I'm going to keep using that as an example until someone acknowledges it.)

 

[del_griffith]

Didn't Randi Rhodes suggest that Jeb or Poppy do that to President Bush 43?

 

[DonTheTrucker]

Didn't Randi Rhodes suggest that Jeb or Poppy do that to President Bush 43?

Yep, and dozens of other prominent people said similar things, yet no one did anything. Just like the Tea Parties aren't going to storm the Capitol Building with bazookas and pipe bombs because Glenn Beck cries on the radio. Which leads me to wonder something. Who did people blame when leaders were assassinated before there was radio and TV? Who told John Wilkes Booth to plug Lincoln in the head? Heck, who told Brutus to stab Caesar?

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "Heck, who told Brutus to stab Caesar?"

Who did people blame when leaders were assassinated before there was radio and TV? Who told John Wilkes Booth to plug Lincoln in the head?

There were hijackers before there were airplanes.
But not-nearly-as-many as there were before TV cameras.

 

[del_griffith]

So if there is no influence, why then do so many family organizations keep discussing how the media is tearing apart family values?

Some of the same organizations that dismiss the Becks's comments but then cry foul on Rhodes et al. Or the revervse with liberal groups who dismiss Rhodes but cry foul on Beck et al.

Wasn't it widely agreed during that time that "Negro" radio as it was called then in the 60's inflamed blacks during the civil rights riots?

And yet for some reason Beck, Limbaugh or Rhodes and others don't have an influence? Rush can create an overnight sensation with Snapple but has no effect on passions, emotions and fears of his listeners? Or Beck doing the same with his almost daily dreaming of the days when ordinary people could read the paper and the headlines make sense? He seems to forget about Kent State, race riots, war riots, Charlie Manson, the assinations of MLK and RFK, Teddy's little bridge incident, the Pueblo incident, Nixon reaching out the Communist Chinese, Woodstock, the sexual revolution, the womens movement, hippies, the drug scene......... Those headlines made more sense to his listeners than today's?

Probably even worse than the flippant comment of killing Michael Moore, or hoping the President will fail or suggesting the Bush family should have their Freddo moment, the daily drum beat of re-enforcing and stimulating peoples deepest inner fears is probably far more damaging.



And has not Beck, while not calling for a Freddo moment, suggested the far left or the truthers will off Obama? Doesn't that sort of set up the expectation? At least Rhodes was keeping it in the family. And Beck has said he would like to kill Michael Moore.

How this is influenced is very complicated. My thoughts have always been that the flame throwers from the right and the left agitate the already unstable person. Sort of the straw the breaks the camels back. Maybe these people need people to bring them down, not further re-enforce their irrational feelings and fears.

or

Didn't Randi Rhodes suggest that Jeb or Poppy do that to President Bush 43?

Yep, and dozens of other prominent people said similar things, yet no one did anything. Just like the Tea Parties aren't going to storm the Capitol Building with bazookas and pipe bombs because Glenn Beck cries on the radio. Which leads me to wonder something. Who did people blame when leaders were assassinated before there was radio and TV? Who told John Wilkes Booth to plug Lincoln in the head? Heck, who told Brutus to stab Caesar?

 

[Holland Cooke]

has not Beck, while not calling for a Freddo moment, suggested the far left or the truthers will off Obama? Doesn't that sort of set up the expectation? At least Rhodes was keeping it in the family. And Beck has said he would like to kill Michael Moore.

How about the-several-times he's been waving a baseball bat at the camera, invoking that scene from "The Untouchables?"

 

[del_griffith]

I believe that ultimately we don't want to get into a "they do it, so so can we" tit for tat.

But I think that if something so benign as saying or advertisiing with the phrase Happy Holidays can ruin the Christmas message and Christianity, what does the hot talk do to actively rile up those who are already agitated or have become concerned beyond being rational?

How can one defend the Happy Holidays issue (or claim as I noted going back to the 60's that black formated radio was agitating during the civil rights days) and then say today's talk radio has no impact?