How can ENC radio win listeners?

[Sportsword]

I realize this is a very hypothetical question because there are numerous ways to see this and how to act on it, but I wanted to ask the question basically for those living in the ENC area, and I guess I base it on a good example, that being Wilson.

I don't run a radio station, but have worked in several and was once executive director of sports, so I know a little compared to everyone else here; I have no problem saying I probably know the least on this site. But there still remains the question of how to bring life back to "dying" radio stations in ENC.

Four radio stations, all the same genre, all small staffed and very likely underpaid (or justly paid) people who are not as qualified as a sophomore in college working in a college radio station. If you had the opportunity to do run an AM station in ENC, or even a LPFM, how could you do it to win back listeners?

I mean, competition is like a huge dragon now, and as you know, most stations are so thinly staffed that it is nearly impossible to do anything outside of stay in the station or (with luck) get ads.

To me, I know there are many paths, but I think a local radio station needs to get back out to the community and create the interest that used to be there years ago. I know that's not easy,but it isn't impossible.

For example, stations like to say they are "serving the community" simply by playing music and making announcements...that's not serving anybody. Why can't stations do the old "live remote" thing?

With each of the 4 stations here, there ought to be a battle royale of events going on with each of those stations trying to be the most visible in the area, but none really do anything.

Just a couple of weeks ago we had the annual Job Fair Expo...this would have been a very credible venue for any station to get out there and make themselves visible to the public. You could take a break every hour or every other hour to do a 5 minute update live from the Job Expo and really get the word out to the community...but instead they just decide to read it a couple of times during the day. That's not community involvement and that's not how to win listeners.

Every year the town has a Business Expo, an excellent way to find clients if you are in radio. I mean, Rocky Mount literally owns Wilson because adverstisers go across county lines to spend money with them. And I can't blame them because the radio stations here make little to no effort to get ads. And even if they can, they are in no creative position to CREATE an ad, rather just read stuff off a piece of paper.

I mentioned on another post about doing local sports, this is a very powerful way to find and win listeners. Even if they don't listen to you regularly, you can still instill in them that when it comes to local sports, they can rely on you. And I think this is a big part of it, becoming reliable to the community. I know not everybody is into sports, but when you figure that there are 3 public high schools, do the math on how many students go there, how many people graduated from there and how many people have ties with those schools. Those numbers could be listening to your station every night there is a local sport. You can certainly win listeners that way (in theory).

So what other ways can you win listeners in a market where radio has two strikes against it? How can small AM or LPFM stations in ENC win listeners?

 

[ZAX Double J]

I have said it before and I will say it again "do what others won't". That is don't do the same formats they do. Don't THINK the same way they do. If you put music on put mroethan the same old tired "hits" that everyone has heard until they want to puke. Yes you can play them but you can also play the other songs that an artist had on the charts. As you say get out in the community at ever festival and event in your county. And advertise yourself, put up billboards, signs at the local stadium or ball park. Yeah that costs money you say, well think of the money you COULD make becasuse you DID.Run ads on your local cable TV outlet. Stations forget that they are businesses too and should advertise themselves just like your clients advertise on your station. Do remotes IF the talent, expertise and equipment are there to do it. If not the come up with a clever way to do it. Most remotes are phoned in so all it takes is someone at the client's office and record "breaks" them play these back just like any other file. We did that onetime. The person at teh remote recorded their break and I then played it back as if I were really doing a remote break. The listener didn't know the difference unless they were at the event. All it takes is a little creativity and that is what is missing from today's radio landscape. Whether it is because they don't know HOW to be creative or corporate has made where you CAN'T be creative. It is an entertainment business so we should be creative in what we do but too many get lazy and don't want to go the extra mile any more.

 

[allenv]

Its a tough question..The ENC market really has too many radio stations and only so much pie to go around....Here is my humble opinion....

1)Get back to basics-Fill every daypart with a live local person and let them do what they do...Be heavy on sellable features with each jock...Encourage the jock to do their own thing and relate to a listener...

2)Be different musically,imaging wise,spot break wise etc... if you competition does A you do B that includes maybe segue way two songs in a row,make your imaging stand out,maybe even run your spot breaks differently :10,:20,:30,:40,:50 is not an order from God himself..find a way to play music when others are playing spots..Let the audience know title and artist of every song you play...Even if it means the occasional freebie get out into the community and do all the little things you can..yes it is a lot of work but if you want it bad enough you gotta do it
3)Have we forgotten the value of local sports... this is still a senimental buy for a business owner even in tough times if his/her kid plays on the team they will buy from you...
4)Make all remotes no more than 2 hours 3 is simply too long and you are just saying the same suff over and over
5) Music stations need to do theme weekends and make them special with lots of giveaways and listener interaction
6) Kill canned listener liners and star wars imaging and get back to basics
7) Let PD's be PD's MD's be MD's and tell your consultant to take a flying leap.Make all decisions in house and don't micro manage your people...Hire good people and trust their judgement and if they don't cut it they are gone...

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...I look forward to reading yours..

Allen

 

[ZAX Double J]

Its a tough question..The ENC market really has too many radio stations and only so much pie to go around....Here is my humble opinion....

1)Get back to basics-Fill every daypart with a live local person and let them do what they do...Be heavy on sellable features with each jock...Encourage the jock to do their own thing and relate to a listener...

2)Be different musically,imaging wise,spot break wise etc... if you competition does A you do B that includes maybe segue way two songs in a row,make your imaging stand out,maybe even run your spot breaks differently :10,:20,:30,:40,:50 is not an order from God himself..find a way to play music when others are playing spots..Let the audience know title and artist of every song you play...Even if it means the occasional freebie get out into the community and do all the little things you can..yes it is a lot of work but if you want it bad enough you gotta do it
3)Have we forgotten the value of local sports... this is still a senimental buy for a business owner even in tough times if his/her kid plays on the team they will buy from you...
4)Make all remotes no more than 2 hours 3 is simply too long and you are just saying the same suff over and over
5) Music stations need to do theme weekends and make them special with lots of giveaways and listener interaction
6) Kill canned listener liners and star wars imaging and get back to basics
7) Let PD's be PD's MD's be MD's and tell your consultant to take a flying leap.Make all decisions in house and don't micro manage your people...Hire good people and trust their judgement and if they don't cut it they are gone...

Just a few ideas off the top of my head...I look forward to reading yours..

Allen

I second everything you said Allen. These are the things that will get listeners not run them away (as some may think will happen). People in power in this business have forgotten the basics that made radio great. As my computer programming teacher once said - Keep It Simple Stupid - the KISS method applies here as well. There are a lot of things you can do that don't cost any money or very little money and would pay huge dividends end then end. The themed weekends can be associated with a sponsor, there's your money for doing the whole weekend. The client pays for it not the station. Again it's not rocket science so don't make it too hard and it will work, if not try something else until it does.

 

[XTalker]

I agree with AllenV, with one addition:

Don't try to be something you are not!

If you don't have the signal to cover the whole region (and few stations do) don't try to be a regional station. Recognize your limitations, study and learn your real potential audience, and super serve them with things they can't get anywhere else!

I submit to you that most of the smaller "dying" stations in ENC (or anywhere else, for that matter) have no clue about their real coverage area, and have little knowledge about their audience (except for those who call a request line or show up at a remote).

 

[quadraphonic]

I think XTalker is on to a lot of the problem in radio management these days right there: the most they are concerned with is what's going to the tower. If it makes it on the air, that's a bonus, they did all they could. They're not even thinking about what it does or doesn't do to people once it gets out beyond the tower, who it affects, who it doesn't affect. They're not even thinking about how to make it affect listeners' friends, or new people, or a different group of people. It's all thought of as a physical exercise, when it's really more than that.

It's just a simple daily repetition of the same steps inside the building that gets called "radio." Radio used to be much bigger than the building. Most of them seemed to expect something different for a while, and for radio to "come back," but most seem to have given up by this point, and are just going through the motions.

 

[allenv]

X Talker & Quad you both make great points...I don't see the passion that I used to out of GM's and PD's..They have to deal with so much corporate stuff that the actual elements that make a station sound good have somehow become less important..For example I hear the same remote bed on some stations that I've heard the last 4 or 5 years...Seems like a small detail yes??? but if real attention was being paid to the little things like that they would realize it is stale and time to change it...I hear a spot for Krispy Kreme the other day where the end is chopped off and it sounds awkward...Maybe its just me, but that to me is something that somebody should hear and fix...I hear awkward rejoins on talk stations, alot or promos that are a day or two out of date..Is someone supposed to be paying attention to this stuff..I realize mistakes happen. Am I being anal or
is attention to detail lacking???? When you're battling for every little piece of the pie
little details mean alot...It could be a matter of simply not having enough people.
It just seems I constantly hear stations that don't catch these things and I'm not an avid listener I'm usually scanning while I'm in the car..I know GM's and PD's I've worked for over the years two seconds after it happened would be calling the hotline wanting to know why this was happening and how come it wasn't already fixed...

Allen

 

[jmtillery]

I live in Florida, but I have family in Eastern North Carolina. I've been in radio for over 34-years and have done every job within a station that exist, ranging from goffer, to programmer, to sales, to manager to eventual owner.

The problem you are having in North Carolina isn't isolated to your area. We're having the same challenges here in Florida.

The original poster asked how can a local radio station attract listeners? If given the opportunity, I would take that challenge personally and manage a small market station anywhere in North Carolina. The very first thing I would do is bring back localism - the key is LOCAL, LOCAL, LOCAL. This means becoming actively involved in the local community. There are several ways this can be done: 1) Support local charities; 2) Support local high school sports; 3) (and this one is a BIGGY) COVER AND REPORT LOCAL NEWS.

Remotes was also mentioed. This is another BIGGY. Visability is vital. Make the station seen and make the community aware you are there. You do that by getting out IN the community and making yourself noticed...

This isn't meant to be an exhaustive list of remedies, but it is a very excellent place to start...

I hope this helps to answer the original, and any subsequent, question(s).

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Great thread, folks.

Remember the old fable from grade school, about the group of blind men and the elephant?

I read into every message posted in this topic the "passion for radio" of each person writing. But I also see each person having a unique concept of what a good radio station would be. And most of the images, just like my favorite images, result in drawing a painting of a station that represent the golden age of... the 90s... or the 80s.... or, heaven forbid: The 50s or the 40s.

Allenv described a station that we all wish existed in large numbers today. Truth is, though, the original post talked about dying stations, or was it dying markets. It's 2008 and if you are going to turn a dream into words which could be turned into an actual radio station, then we need to describe the station of 2010 that can function in a typical ENC community.

Pick two or three towns that fit the category you are thinking about as "typical community" to be served. Calculate the advertising sales you think those communities could generate. Take the average of the three. Now create a staff and a facility (on paper) that that revenue would support. Clue: you are probably not going to have a Program Director and News Director and Office Manager.

Now that you have your facility described, and your staff described, start defining the programming that your facility and your staff can support and operate. Clue: Remotes as we knew them 20, 30 and 40 years ago probably are beyond the limits of your facility and staff. So, what is today's equivalent, today's replacement for the Remote?

 

[Marathon Don]

Remotes are huge, from the standpoint of visibility. The problem is, they're a huge listener tune-out / turn-off. Making it worse is when the remote "talent" rambles on ("Come on out and see the fine staff at WalkInDriveOut Motors and we'll give you a free bumper sticker) for 5 freakin' minutes while the guy in the studio has to recue the bed 3 times. Wanna blow up the flow of a show? That'll do it!

Keep the remotes on the weekends, and the breaks to a minute-thirty max. If you must do them during a weekday shift, the call-ins should be conversational back and forths with the on-air guy and BRIEF. Make the remote a part of your dialogue with the listener, in other words bring the listener into the discussion.

Another way to promote... don't forget the old "re-tune all the radios in the stereo store to my station" trick. Cheezy, but cheap & easy.

 

[allenv]

I still do the radio tune thing especially at best buy or circuit city where that damn BOOM BOOM BOOM base rumbles through the building at times...

Allen

 

[Marathon Don]

I wish I could do that with my Internet station. :

 

[XTalker]

Remotes can be a very valuable promotion tool, but most people who do remotes are ill prepared to do them.

Seldom does the on-air talent ever see the copy points for a remote before they arrive on the scene. Most of the time, the jock is handed a sale paper with a few items marked with a sharpie. There is no preperation on how to get in and out of the commercial part of the remote. Frankly, a well done remote includes a half dozen scripted cut-ins, and yes, AllenV, a variety of music beds. (Does anyone use a stopwatch anymore?)

How many times have you heard something like "we are live at Bob's Bank, come by and see us. We've got some free can huggers with 13 logos on them". Now, there is a compelling reason for someone to jump in the car. The same principles apply to a live remote commercial that apply to a good recorded one - aim at the right target, have a strong and compelling message, repeat it enough times for the audience to pick up on it, and make sure the merchant is prepared for the amazing response.

The person doing a remote should visit the store the day before, talk to the staff, find out about the place and ask "why am I really going to be here tomorrow?" Plan what you are going to say, and say it with conviction.

And it is not just the station personnel who go unprepared. Most merchants aren't prepared either. The expect (mainly because our sales person told them) the station's presence to be enough. The merchant must give us a compelling reason to be there - a grand opening, some really super door buster deal - something that will make people get off the couch and come!

Remotes done the way most people do them are just a tune-out. Remotes done right can be an incredible experience for the merchant and the station.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I have said it before and I will say it again "do what others won't". That is don't do the same formats they do. Don't THINK the same way they do. If you put music on put mroethan the same old tired "hits" that everyone has heard until they want to puke.

Some of what is being said in this thread parallels a topic on the Atlanta board about "What advice would you give someone who is interested in starting in radio."

In both threads someone early in the conversation says something like Double J said here.... Do Something Different.... and then we get a lot of posts that say: We've got to do a better job of doing what we have always done.

Each of us is convinced that if we bought a station, or were given control of a station to manage, we would implement good programming that would just command listeners and rake in the dollars because we would, unlike everyone else, do a really great job of it.

Then I read posts written by successful small town operators like Art Sutton down in S.C. and Georgia who will plainly tell you things that WILL NOT WORK in radio today.

I have been following these conversations now for 5 or 6 years, and actually disciplined myself to start reducing good thoughts that I read here, and good thoughts that I created to writing so when my time came, my mind wouldn't go blank when faced with the task.

I can tell you that in 5 or 6 years of reading here, I don't think I can identify half a dozen people who understand what it means to "think outside the box, be creative. Invent something with a new twist." Depending on our age and when we got involved in radio, we all have our own vision of "What the Golden Sound Is." It the 1980s. No the 1970s. No we must capture the genius of the 1960s. and on and on and on.

P.S. I find it interesting the the folks interested in radio in ENC apparently are not impressed, or are not paying attention to what is going on at WTXY.... or you would be discussing it.

 

[ZAX Double J]

P.S. I find it interesting the the folks interested in radio in ENC apparently are not impressed, or are not paying attention to what is going on at WTXY.... or you would be discussing it.

Well by all means tell us! What is going on with WTXY?

 

[Sportsword]

These are some VERY good bits of info here, and I am past impressed. And a lot of you guys touched on some very simple basics that actually define the problem.

Most stations don't know the basics of radio, and actually have a foundation built off little intel. For example, the idea about music beds. That is a very credible point that stations don't use? Why?

Well, in being in and out of a few stations, I have noticed that the death of the real music bed was lost when people who were not qualified to be in radio were given authority. When I was at WWCU, we learned all kinds of neat stuff of how to cut spots (and keep the timing perfect) how to create music beds, and how to cut a spot, as opposed to just reading script.

But in many stations now, this was never taught because the people working in radio never studied for communications. Even if you didn't go to college for radio, most everybody here was still taught the basics. But nowdays, those basics are not taught, even something as simple as a music bed.

Now days a music bed is a quick instrumental song snatched off a CD like a sample. That works sometimes, but what happened to the REAL music beds. Not every spot has to have a familiar instrumental in the back ground.

I agree with you guys on that one heavily because to an untrained PD or MD or other radio personnel, this is money not worth spending. Hey, sometimes you to spend money to sound like a real radio station, rather than yanking instrumentals off the first CD or record (ugh) you find.

This is also why the stopwatch no longer exists in local radio. Try listening to a spot and see if it is 30ish or 60ish or longer. It's hard to win listeners when the station does not take a professional approach. If I ever cut a spot that was 31 seconds in college, it would not be good for me. A 30 second spot means 30 seconds. Not 34 or 38 or 46 seconds. And here's another cardinal sin one of my professors told me...NEVER say, "you'll be glad you did"

I still laugh today when I hear that because he promised us that if we EVER used that in any spot we did, he would fail us immediately.

So I do believe the idea of winning customers starts with being professional, and that often times starts in how you handle the spots, liners and jingles.

As for the live remotes, I have done a few of those myself, especially live games. You guys make excellent points on the importance of not just "showing up" to do a live remote. Where's the fun in that? A point about businesses just believing that just the idea of a station showing up is good enough is right on the money. It pays to be well prepared whenever you are doing a live remote.

When I did high school games, the idea was to make it an event, not just a game. This was because we knew another radio station was nearby was doing games, so we had to do something better. So what I felt we could do was come on earlier and dedicate that time as sports talk radio. We would come on at 6:30, one hour before the kickoff. The first half hour was spent preparing the listeners for the game by talking lightly about the game to come, but also focusing on college and pro sports. But this wasn't done by the seat of our pants. Before I went on that day, I would go online and read topics we could discuss, or print out info that we could use during that show. It was important that we didn't just fiddle our fingers for an hour, we had to make it count.

The second part of that hour was a strong sell to the kickoff, and because we were on earlier, we could steal some listerners looking for a game on the radio. So by 7:30 we had fish netted any listeners that had not truly decided which station to listen to. But it was choreographed, not just winged. Many local stations "wing it" for a few minutes, not realizing that what they are doing is lowering expectations.

Both examples seem to be lost arts, that if fine tuned with a station, could make a difference. I am not saying they'll go from 1000 listeners a day to 30,000, but it would at least SOUND like they're making headway.

I don't believe a local AM or FM station has to bite the dust, even if there are 1000 radio stations in the area, because the other 999 might be doing just as little to better themselves as everyone else. The first one to really take this seriously, which may mean opening up the wallet to hire professional radio guys and women, they will be the first to start winning listeners. Until then, it just seems like they are giving us the bare minimum, take it or leave it (and most leave it).

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

For example, the idea about music beds. That is a very credible point that stations don't use? Why?

Yes indeed, this has developed into a thread with many good ideas.

I'm not raggin' on you, I'm not saying what you just posted is wrong. But let me tweak your nose a bit.

One more time. Be creative. Think outside the box. Too much of what you just proposed is stuff one broadcast person does to impress other broadcast people. I have never in my life heard a non radio person say: "I used to listen to WWWW but then I timed some of their commercials and noticed they some times run 3 seconds short of 30 or 5 seconds long, so I didn't enjoy that station any more so I quit listening."

Music beds? The most successful broadcaster and mentor I ever worked for in small market radio basically forbid us from putting music underneath a commercial. Some time when you are talking with someone who is wearing a hearing aid, ask them what they think of music underneath spoken words. When you work in rural areas and you are trying to be the only station serving your market, your audience will likely be a bit older than highly rated stations in the city, thus more of your audience has hearing challenges. Hearing aids are better today, but in past years music under a commercial made it impossible for the listener to hear the verbiage if they are hearing-challenged.

I listen to radio and I realize the we don't listen to our listeners.... or we wouldn't be funneling some of the plastic sounds into their ears that we dish up today.