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How can radio EVER be dead?
- Thread starter Steven21
- Start date
Radio isn't dead.
IMHO, local radio is alive, the business of radio is however dead. That is buying lots of high-priced (and usually overpriced) assets and then having to answer to shareholders while trying to squeeze out a profit in a poor economy.
Dead.
IMHO, local radio is alive, the business of radio is however dead. That is buying lots of high-priced (and usually overpriced) assets and then having to answer to shareholders while trying to squeeze out a profit in a poor economy.
Dead.
J
JohnGault
Guest
It's exactly the same.
Broadcasters are too leveraged and can't pay the mortgage, in spite of cash flow that most businesses would be jealous of.
In the Housing market they foreclose on your home. On Wall Street they abandon your stock.
Broadcasters are too leveraged and can't pay the mortgage, in spite of cash flow that most businesses would be jealous of.
In the Housing market they foreclose on your home. On Wall Street they abandon your stock.
Steven21 said:
I have been out of the area for many years. That fact became painfully clear when I listened to WBEN on line one morning. It sure didn't sound as polished and professional as the WBEN I remember. Susan Rose was stumbling around quite a bit and some of the other people I heard other than John Zack sounded like they just came in off the street, you shoudda heard dose guys.
I remember a much more polished and professional sound on Radio 930 WBEN. Sorry to be so blunt but there just isn't any nice way to say it.
WBEN
WBEN is a shadow of its former self, living on reputation and lack of commercial competition. In spite of massive earnings, their investment in people is lower now than it was in the early '90s. Cost cutting at WBEN essentially made Greg Ried a management star at Entercom - in spite of the demise of 'KB, and failure of WGR to reach the same audience levels that they had in the early '90s.
WBEN is a shadow of its former self, living on reputation and lack of commercial competition. In spite of massive earnings, their investment in people is lower now than it was in the early '90s. Cost cutting at WBEN essentially made Greg Ried a management star at Entercom - in spite of the demise of 'KB, and failure of WGR to reach the same audience levels that they had in the early '90s.
WGR
I'm talking about WGR as an all-sports station under Jim Pastrick in the '90s.
I'm talking about WGR as an all-sports station under Jim Pastrick in the '90s.
IIRC, WGR was primarily news-talk in the 90s with a line-up of sports which included the Bills, Sabres and Bisons, first under Chuck Finney, followed by Daryl Parks. Pastrick took over WGR sometime around 95 after Parks left for Cincinatt. An argument can be made that WBEN was a much better station when WGR was doing news (even as an AC station), giving listeners a choice of radio stations.
Radio was much more responsive ("back in the day") when WBEN, WEBR, WGR, WYSL, WKBW and even stations like WWOL, WHLD, WUSJ-WLVL and WJJL had news staffs that were on the street uncovering breaking news, whether it was bank robberies, politicians who took bribes, water main breaks, highway accidents, trial verdicts or cats stuck in trees.
When it was a market leading AC station, WBUF had a news department (who can forget the legendary Jack Mahl doing regularly scheduled newscasts. Magnificent voice and delivery.)
Remember when even the all night jock could deliver a newscast with conviction and clarity? Full time news departments. Yes boys and girls, there was a time.
And yes, I concede Buffalo is fortunate to have two very good public radio stations that do more than an adequate job of reporting news. And I'm fully aware that it's 2008 and people have the ability to get their news from the Internet, 24-7 cable TV news networks. I realize that most of the radio stations that I cited were AM and AM is facing a tough if not insurmountable challenge these days.
Radio would hold a greater place in the minds of listeners, if listeners knew they could rely on their favorite "music" stations to keep them informed in dayparts outside of morning drive, especially in times of trouble and emergency. In October of 2006, parts of Western New York were hit with heavy, wet snow which caused wide-spread power outages. WBEN scored a major coup when it became (arguably by default), the primary source of immediate news and two way talk from listeners who were affected by the storm. FM lost that battle and it wasn't even close.
Inside Radio, in its 2-20-08 edition, reports, "Fall book Persons Using Radio (PUR) numbers declined to their lowest level since Arbitron began keeping statistics nearly a decade ago. In the latest analysis of the Fall 2007 survey, Arbitron says 12+ PURs fell another 3% in the past year. The numbers were down in every age cell except Persons 50-54, which held steady thanks to a slight increase in male listening. Steepest declines are among teens and young adults."
Radio persists these day in building a product that does not reach or relate to broadcasting. Radio does not reach nor retain new listeners. Ten-in-a-row, 350 song libraries, however well-tested, cannot possibly beat a 21 year old's MP3 player or iPod. Stations such as Jack, no matter how catchy their promotional statements may be, cannot be deeper, wider than what's available on Shoutcast or Pandora.
But what should listeners expect when stations go into competition with game plans based on zero-sum programming and limited expectations? Especially for music formats, it's not about stations attracting new listeners (or news listeners, for that matter), but subtracting listeners from the competition.
The Lake tried this "addition by subtraction" approach and for the most part, fell by the wayside because 97 Rock is a stronger, established radio station. Entercom seems to have a three pronged approach aimed at Citadel. The strategy calls for WGR, WBEN and The Lake to subtract male listeners from 97 Rock. IMHO, The Lake should take the plunge and become a truly unique station with AAA music and personalities who have quasi-free reign with music selection, but in all likelihood, the opportunity has been forever lost. Citadel seemingly returns the favor by programming WHTT against Star and WJYE. Again, addition by subtraction. Rather than cultivating NEW listeners and re-attracting heritage listeners who have fallen away, radio robs Peter to pay Paul.
Radio isn't dead. It's disoriented.
-9-
Radio was much more responsive ("back in the day") when WBEN, WEBR, WGR, WYSL, WKBW and even stations like WWOL, WHLD, WUSJ-WLVL and WJJL had news staffs that were on the street uncovering breaking news, whether it was bank robberies, politicians who took bribes, water main breaks, highway accidents, trial verdicts or cats stuck in trees.
When it was a market leading AC station, WBUF had a news department (who can forget the legendary Jack Mahl doing regularly scheduled newscasts. Magnificent voice and delivery.)
Remember when even the all night jock could deliver a newscast with conviction and clarity? Full time news departments. Yes boys and girls, there was a time.
And yes, I concede Buffalo is fortunate to have two very good public radio stations that do more than an adequate job of reporting news. And I'm fully aware that it's 2008 and people have the ability to get their news from the Internet, 24-7 cable TV news networks. I realize that most of the radio stations that I cited were AM and AM is facing a tough if not insurmountable challenge these days.
Radio would hold a greater place in the minds of listeners, if listeners knew they could rely on their favorite "music" stations to keep them informed in dayparts outside of morning drive, especially in times of trouble and emergency. In October of 2006, parts of Western New York were hit with heavy, wet snow which caused wide-spread power outages. WBEN scored a major coup when it became (arguably by default), the primary source of immediate news and two way talk from listeners who were affected by the storm. FM lost that battle and it wasn't even close.
Inside Radio, in its 2-20-08 edition, reports, "Fall book Persons Using Radio (PUR) numbers declined to their lowest level since Arbitron began keeping statistics nearly a decade ago. In the latest analysis of the Fall 2007 survey, Arbitron says 12+ PURs fell another 3% in the past year. The numbers were down in every age cell except Persons 50-54, which held steady thanks to a slight increase in male listening. Steepest declines are among teens and young adults."
Radio persists these day in building a product that does not reach or relate to broadcasting. Radio does not reach nor retain new listeners. Ten-in-a-row, 350 song libraries, however well-tested, cannot possibly beat a 21 year old's MP3 player or iPod. Stations such as Jack, no matter how catchy their promotional statements may be, cannot be deeper, wider than what's available on Shoutcast or Pandora.
But what should listeners expect when stations go into competition with game plans based on zero-sum programming and limited expectations? Especially for music formats, it's not about stations attracting new listeners (or news listeners, for that matter), but subtracting listeners from the competition.
The Lake tried this "addition by subtraction" approach and for the most part, fell by the wayside because 97 Rock is a stronger, established radio station. Entercom seems to have a three pronged approach aimed at Citadel. The strategy calls for WGR, WBEN and The Lake to subtract male listeners from 97 Rock. IMHO, The Lake should take the plunge and become a truly unique station with AAA music and personalities who have quasi-free reign with music selection, but in all likelihood, the opportunity has been forever lost. Citadel seemingly returns the favor by programming WHTT against Star and WJYE. Again, addition by subtraction. Rather than cultivating NEW listeners and re-attracting heritage listeners who have fallen away, radio robs Peter to pay Paul.
Radio isn't dead. It's disoriented.
-9-
Element9 said:
I think that's what they should have done in the first place. I thought that's what we would get, along with new music that you don't hear anywhere else. But as usual, they played it real safe and couldn't really can't even sustain that. I'm sure the unique approach would take more than the $50 it seems like they spent
promoting the Lake, KB as oldies or liberal talk.
Thanks for not flaming me for my comments on WBEN. While growing up, KB was the main attraction but I did tune into to Radio 930 and always respected the classy and professional, if a little stodgy sound. If you heard someone on WBEN you knew they earned the right to be there.
The people of Buffalo always appreciated good personality radio. Maybe due to the winter weather? There was always a special bond with radio for emergency information. AM radio prospered in Buffalo much longer than just about anywhere else.
For a little of the WBEN I remember the Buffalo Broadcasters site has a couple of samples: http://www.buffalobroadcasters.com/sounds.asp
The people of Buffalo always appreciated good personality radio. Maybe due to the winter weather? There was always a special bond with radio for emergency information. AM radio prospered in Buffalo much longer than just about anywhere else.
For a little of the WBEN I remember the Buffalo Broadcasters site has a couple of samples: http://www.buffalobroadcasters.com/sounds.asp
I can't believe I'm coming to the defense of WBEN, but here goes. An argument can be made that WBEN is not what it once was. Yes, the station was better when it had competition from WGR in the 1990s. And Brian Meyer was one helluva a radio reporter. I still marvel at how he was able to get out five to seven new stories a day. But...
Barbara Burns does a bang-up job as the station's primary street reporter. I think Steve Cichon and Tom Puckett are decent anchors. Dave Debo comes up with interesting angles to stories on a daily basis. I think John and Susan struggle so much because they're asked to do too much. The morning show needs a host like Bill Lacy was, giving the news team more time to look over their copy and prepare for interviews. Having to host, plus serve as newscasters and interviewers is a full plate.
One more thing. I was listening to some old airchecks of WBEN from the 1970s. We remember the Jack Ogilvie's, the Ward Fenton's and Virgil Booth's as being top notch anchors. And they were. But we're better today. There was one air check of Virgil Booth reading a story about a fire that killed six people, mostly children in Buffalo. There was no tape. No reporter from the scene. It was Virgil reading copy for 90 seconds. He did it well. But today, there'd be team coverage and live reports from the scene. Granted, we have much better technology today than was available in the '70s. But I'd make the case that the good old days weren't necessarily better than what's presented now on WBEN.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share these observations. Maybe Mike caught WBEN on a bad day. But more often than not, they hold their own as Buffalo's lone commercial news outlet.
Barbara Burns does a bang-up job as the station's primary street reporter. I think Steve Cichon and Tom Puckett are decent anchors. Dave Debo comes up with interesting angles to stories on a daily basis. I think John and Susan struggle so much because they're asked to do too much. The morning show needs a host like Bill Lacy was, giving the news team more time to look over their copy and prepare for interviews. Having to host, plus serve as newscasters and interviewers is a full plate.
One more thing. I was listening to some old airchecks of WBEN from the 1970s. We remember the Jack Ogilvie's, the Ward Fenton's and Virgil Booth's as being top notch anchors. And they were. But we're better today. There was one air check of Virgil Booth reading a story about a fire that killed six people, mostly children in Buffalo. There was no tape. No reporter from the scene. It was Virgil reading copy for 90 seconds. He did it well. But today, there'd be team coverage and live reports from the scene. Granted, we have much better technology today than was available in the '70s. But I'd make the case that the good old days weren't necessarily better than what's presented now on WBEN.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share these observations. Maybe Mike caught WBEN on a bad day. But more often than not, they hold their own as Buffalo's lone commercial news outlet.
People keep in mind sometning as you consider the death of radio...
When movies got sound, they said radio was dead.
When TV came around, they said radio was dead.
When 8-tracks and Cassettes came around, they said radio was dead.
When MTV arrived, they said radio was dead.
When I-pods and P2P came, they said radio was dead.
When satellite radio showed up, they said radio was dead.
When mega-corporations took over, they said radio was dead.
Yoo-hoo, don't look now but RADIO IS STILL HERE.
When movies got sound, they said radio was dead.
When TV came around, they said radio was dead.
When 8-tracks and Cassettes came around, they said radio was dead.
When MTV arrived, they said radio was dead.
When I-pods and P2P came, they said radio was dead.
When satellite radio showed up, they said radio was dead.
When mega-corporations took over, they said radio was dead.
Yoo-hoo, don't look now but RADIO IS STILL HERE.
A
alw
Guest
RADIO is simply a platform from which to deliver audio content. There will always be the need to deliver audio content.
If you interpret RADIO strictly as being the delivery of audio via your old Harris or RCA transmitter and heard through your analog Sony or Eton or C. Crane receiver….
Radio may, indeed, die away someday.
If you consider RADIO to be a system of Broadcasting through whatever platform is available utilizing existing technology at any given time…..Radio cannot ever really die.
Imagine, if you will, a radio station with no vinyl records or reel-to-reel tapes or any tape at all for that matter. In 1960 one couldn’t have fathomed it. But here we are.
The internet(s), -which as you know is a series of tubes that connect to each other around the world-, has opened things up to a point to where the means to deliver information and audio is endless.
Will it always be done using amplitude modulation, or frequency modulation? Maybe not.
But however the audio content gets from point A to point B….it will always be RADIO as far as I’m concerned.
My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
If you interpret RADIO strictly as being the delivery of audio via your old Harris or RCA transmitter and heard through your analog Sony or Eton or C. Crane receiver….
Radio may, indeed, die away someday.
If you consider RADIO to be a system of Broadcasting through whatever platform is available utilizing existing technology at any given time…..Radio cannot ever really die.
Imagine, if you will, a radio station with no vinyl records or reel-to-reel tapes or any tape at all for that matter. In 1960 one couldn’t have fathomed it. But here we are.
The internet(s), -which as you know is a series of tubes that connect to each other around the world-, has opened things up to a point to where the means to deliver information and audio is endless.
Will it always be done using amplitude modulation, or frequency modulation? Maybe not.
But however the audio content gets from point A to point B….it will always be RADIO as far as I’m concerned.
My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
dustintv said:
Since I worked at WHAM 30 plus years ago I will try to answer your question.
We had live announcers to cover every shift, both weekdays and weekends. None of the voice-tracking you hear today. The one syndicated network program we did carry was the CBS Mystery Theatre from 10 to 11pm weeknights.
When it came to talk radio, WHAM had the Opinion Program, which yours truly hosted for a while. No engineers, producers, or sitting home in Mt. Morris doing the show; the program originated from our studio at 350 East Ave. As for screening calls, the host did that chore, along with reading the local newscast on the hour.
The news department did not rely on Television audio. We had a full staff of both anchors and reporters that went out and covered stories while generating news from in-house as well. Remember WHAM had to compete against 7 other radio stations with their own local news operations. That's not the case today!
Listeners to WHAM knew who was on-the-air and what time of day. Jack Slattery and George Haefner did mornings for many years. Tom Gallagher did mid-days; David Sennett; afternoon drive, and Harry Abraham did his jazz show overnights. Dick DeMeco hosted a classical music program on the weekends, and I even got roped into doing a music show Saturday nights. (Glad I brought along my collection of Gabby Hayes albums).
I have no idea what it is like to work at WHAM today but I can attest to the fact that back in the 70s it was one hell of a ride; and I wouldn't have missed it for anything.
But as the lyrics go....."Those were the days my friends, we thought they never end."
Unfortunately they did.
Well said Mark.... unfortunately some of the kids do not realize what radio was like in those days. Working in radio then meant a lot more than it does today. Make no mistake it was always a slipery ride but you had the feeling you were part of something great.
In 1979 Harry Abraham was supposedly going to retire (I don't know if he did or not) the PD at the time (who will remain nameless) dangled the carrot under my nose for that one. I would have enjoyed being on the big 1180 overnight but it never happened.
In 1979 Harry Abraham was supposedly going to retire (I don't know if he did or not) the PD at the time (who will remain nameless) dangled the carrot under my nose for that one. I would have enjoyed being on the big 1180 overnight but it never happened.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"I was listening to some old airchecks of WBEN from the 1970s. We remember the Jack Ogilvie's, the Ward Fenton's and Virgil Booth's as being top notch anchors. And they were. But we're better today. There was one air check of Virgil Booth reading a story about a fire that killed six people, mostly children in Buffalo. There was no tape. No reporter from the scene. It was Virgil reading copy for 90 seconds. He did it well. But today, there'd be team coverage and live reports from the scene."
As Jack Ogilvie's last co-anchor on the morning show there back in 1978-79 I can tell you that WBEN was making a transition then...we still had live local origination of literally every newscast at the top of the hour, 24/7, and we'd begun the kind of team coverage and live reporting of big stories we all value today (though we'd literally have to find a pay phone sometimes to call in the story if the signal from the 2-meter 2-way mobile radio didn't cut through--didn't have cellphones back in the day), and you'd better believe we were mandated to get tape on the air fast on every big breaking story.
It was an exciting time--we even launched the Newsday noontime news hour which became, in a way, a formatic prototype for today's morning show. WBEN isn't the same today, that's for sure, and I think it'd be better off if it still had an hour more of news at noon and an hour less of Limbaugh...but I do give today's team a lot of credit for keeping alive, a lot of the best of the style and practice of news coverage which we started back when Larry Levite ran the station and Jim McLaughlin ran the news shop.
As Jack Ogilvie's last co-anchor on the morning show there back in 1978-79 I can tell you that WBEN was making a transition then...we still had live local origination of literally every newscast at the top of the hour, 24/7, and we'd begun the kind of team coverage and live reporting of big stories we all value today (though we'd literally have to find a pay phone sometimes to call in the story if the signal from the 2-meter 2-way mobile radio didn't cut through--didn't have cellphones back in the day), and you'd better believe we were mandated to get tape on the air fast on every big breaking story.
It was an exciting time--we even launched the Newsday noontime news hour which became, in a way, a formatic prototype for today's morning show. WBEN isn't the same today, that's for sure, and I think it'd be better off if it still had an hour more of news at noon and an hour less of Limbaugh...but I do give today's team a lot of credit for keeping alive, a lot of the best of the style and practice of news coverage which we started back when Larry Levite ran the station and Jim McLaughlin ran the news shop.
Mike Sheridan said:
Harry wanted to retire? I think it was more like the PD wanted Harry out the door.
In 1979 the owner of WHAM brought in new management and they wanted to turn the station from a format that had worked for decades to something more " hip" (was the word they used). Therefore a number of employees either jumped ship to WSAY or were let go.
Be thankful that you didn't get the overnight job because the new management was then replaced by another group of Wunderkins.
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