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How did it come down to this

A

another_guy

Guest
I find it amazing that we as production directors work for an industry that refuses to pay us any money. I often ask myself what it was that made it this way. As production directors I think we have a lot on our plate, between writing copy, producing ads, writing imaging, producing imaging, and if your in a small station like me you also have to handle operations, maybe some programming, it seems liek we have to do it all. And when it comes down to it, we need to be really good at what we do, its our work that makes the station sound good and sound fun. yet when it comes down to our paychecks we always get snubbed. I went to a 4 year school to study audio technology, I have a bachelors, and I just barly make over 30k a year, and I live in Mass which is one of the most expensive places to live! Plus, I know there are probably others out there that wish they made 30k a year!

I just wonder how it is that we got this bad. How a radio station can think its fair to pay someone way below cost of living. I'm 27 and I have to live at home because I live in a state where the average apartment goes for 1100 a month, and I can't afford it, with car payments and gas prices and student loans. Its annoying and making me think about a career change

having a bad night, had to rant.....
 
Radio doesn't exactly pay any of its people a decent salary. That is, unless you are a successful morning show or Whoopi
 
Supply and demand

Let's face it...what we do as production directors is not brain surgery. Or electrical engineering. Therefore, there are plenty of people who can do it. Which means if we don't like the salary, they'll find someone who will like it.

Now we can get into the "yeah but I'm special, I did/studied __________ or have ________ years experience. So therefore I can do a much better job." And this very well may be true. But funny thing is that, unlike brain surgery and electrical engineering, in radio world they can make do with someone who is just so-so.

So do we just give up? No, we keep trying to improve our talents. We try to make ourselves more valuable by expanding some of our duties. And we give thanks we're not out digging ditches or roofing houses. Personally, having grown up working on a farm, I'll take this gig over the "real work" those folks do any day of the week. Even if I don't get paid what I think I'm worth.
 
Let's face it...what we do as production directors is not brain surgery. Or electrical engineering. Therefore, there are plenty of people who can do it.
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aaaah.... but very few do it well.....


seriously... if you are takig premade imaging elements, throwing a voiceover on top of them through audition... and not putting any real thought into what you do... your right.

but.... there is a lot more to doing production RIGHT than that.

I am OFTEN appauled at what is considered "good enough" .... especially some of the tripe that comes from agencies now days.....
 
Not long ago I was offered 22K to come to BUFFALO. Now, that's a pretty large market. This year, our cluster released 6 long time folks, who may never work in the industry again. I'm uber-thankful I got to keep my job. Although, I make a nice chunk on the side as well.

The creative side is great, but how many clients do you know? How well do they know you? Work those relationships like the AEs do. First of all, if you super serve those clients you know, they are more likely to tell management that it wouldn't be the same without you. Make sure you have a life outside the studio...and find something else you can do "just in case".
 
[/quote]aaaah.... but very few do it well.....

I am OFTEN appauled at what is considered "good enough" .... especially some of the tripe that comes from agencies now days.....[/quote]

Oh I agree completely on both counts. Agencies actually produce some of the worst drivel around because they're more interested in winning awards and impressing clients than actually motivating people to action.

But when you consider that ALL our finished products, even at their finest, will accomplish is: to make someone go "hey that sounded cool!" or walk into a store to check out their half price sale, it's pretty small potatoes compared to removing a brain tumor, keeping an electrical grid functioning, or getting your rich client off on some charges.

Don't get me wrong, I do love my job and have fun doing it. I just know in the grand scheme of things, it's not that important.
 
I don't think our job is that "important" either, but for a person to ask that he/she get paid inorder to live a life, thats not asking a lot here. At what point do you say, "i need to support my family here" Perhaps I am in the wrong situation, I don't get any commision on any "sales" i might make, instead those clients are given to sales people, i don't get paid extra if my spots get used outside the radio station. maybe thats my problem
 
Pay is always going to be an issue for most of us. Yes there are many out there doing a great job and it should not matter if it is brain surgery or not. The point should be ....the job is very important to the overall success or failure of a station. I worked with my share of people that would do anything because they were so glad to not be doing something else. That is admirable to a point...then it begins to hurt others in the industry who want a better life. Because they will always say yes no matter what the question or request.

Yes- we should be paid better in most cases. It's sad that many talented people have left the industry they love because you can't afford to eat or drive a decent car or have the bare needs in life.

Compare your salary to some teacher salaries in Arkansas(small town) and remember they work 9 months a year with 2 weeks at Christmas....1 week in the Spring and several other days througout the year....

Middle School Principal $83,000
High Scool teacher $45,000
Elementary teacher $47,000
High Scool Principal $89,000
Middle School teacher $39,000

And I don't know about where you live, but these people (teachers...not administrators) complain about there salaries quiet often.

I have a 4 year degree and over 20 years experience and I know I could never make $47,000 in Arkansas working for a broadcast station.
 
Corporate bean-counters don't understand the value of a good production/creative director. I'm talking about the kind who turns the schlock that salespeople and direct advertisers call "creative" into something that gets results for the advertisers, and gets renewals, relationships, and revenues for the station. The kind whose imaging brings higher ratings and higher rates. The kind who can also voice-track air shifts on three stations daily, spend most of Wednesday morning pre-recording and editing a local preacher's hour-long Sunday morning program, and make sense out of Westwood One's meaningless, senseless, worthless, useless, and pointless barter documentation. The production directors who truly work magic and make the black ink flow are paid no better than the ones who only know how to create things that sound cool on the radio. In some markets, they're paid less. Ultimately, the good production directors abandon radio for something that feeds the family, and radio creative, as well as the bottom line, suffers.
 
Up and down the dial:

Not to insult you but YOU will always be secure if you're willing to work for 21K. It doesn't take brain surgery to be a salesperson either.
 
Nobody is forcing this job on any of us. If you're not happy, there are tons of people who would be thrilled to have your job, crappy salary and all. If you want to get ahead, take some chances. Make your life uncomfortable. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

If your hard work isn't paying off, go to a different market. There ARE companies out there who appreciate and reward hard work. Find them. If you don't, someone else will.
 
Nobody is forcing this job on any of us. If you're not happy, there are tons of people who would be thrilled to have your job, crappy salary and all.
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and thats the rub isnt it?

the glut of starry eyed automatons that graduate from broadcasting trade schools... and folks in upper management too worried about stock price to worry about quality. .. and/or franly dont care.

the result?

real wages in our industry have dropped DRAMATICLY in the past 10-20 years and quality is a joke...

the question comes out to this... what when wrong ... when?

I have my answer... whats yours?
 
Catfish:
No offense taken. BTW, I did not take that job. I'd much rather be in DFW where I grew up (and worked for a little little while)but I'm not, although where I am has been pretty good so far, knock wood. I was just relating the unusually low salary for that CBS station in Buffalo.
So...what's up with YOU? is there going to be a new oldies station or not? :)
 
I went to the president of a large broadcasting company in 1989. I wanted to make more for my great work. He was very kind, but wrote a figure down on a piece of paper, and folded it and shoved it across the desk.

He said: "The Creative Services Director at these radio stations makes this much money every year.
(pointing at the paper) The fact the YOU are doing it doesn't change that figure..Is there anything about that you do not understand?"

Jeesh..what could I say? The fact is that the budgets have been mapped out, and they determine what is to be paid to each member of the team. I found out that i wasn't as special as I thought, and that the "company" didn;t love me as much I thought they should.

The same gentleman told me one night at a company Christmas party while rather "faced":

"It's great to love what you do..but don't love where you do it..it won't love you back..unless you work for yourself"

So I quit.
 
Jeff Laurence said:
I went to the president of a large broadcasting company in 1989. I wanted to make more for my great work. He was very kind, but wrote a figure down on a piece of paper, and folded it and shoved it across the desk.

He said: "The Creative Services Director at these radio stations makes this much money every year.
(pointing at the paper) The fact the YOU are doing it doesn't change that figure..Is there anything about that you do not understand?"

Jeesh..what could I say? The fact is that the budgets have been mapped out, and they determine what is to be paid to each member of the team. I found out that i wasn't as special as I thought, and that the "company" didn;t love me as much I thought they should.

The same gentleman told me one night at a company Christmas party while rather "faced":

"It's great to love what you do..but don't love where you do it..it won't love you back..unless you work for yourself"

So I quit.
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Ya i was told once, "life isn't about making money it's about being happy", of course the person who told me this owns 2 radio stations AND 2 houses. its easy to not worry about money when you have a ton of it.
 
You only need to worry about making more money up to the point that you pay the bills. Many people don't, and thereby have to worry about money.
 
I must take issue with several points put forth here.

1. What we do IS important. No, it's not saving lives directly. But what we do helps small businesses grow and big businesses stay thrive. They, in turn, keep their employees paid, those employees' families fed, and so on. There is a noble purpose here.

2. Everyone says that sales is the driving engine of this business. Maybe, but my department (which is me, really) is the wheels that allow that engine to get somewhere.

3. I'm very proud of the fact that I came from a radio trade school. I learned a lot in the nine months at Specs Howard. Of course, you learn more in the real world, but that can be said of any schooling.

As far as the pay goes, it does suck. Every radio station/cluster I've been to said they paid a stipend on every spec spot sold. Every one of them LIED. To those who think that salespeople are more important to this business than creative folk: There was programming and imaging BEFORE there was sales. And, I have 15 salespeople to deal with. If one of them walks, no big deal. If *I* walk, they're up the creek. Without me, salespeople can only offer their clients empty air. *I* fill it.
 
Maybe we should organize a nationwide Day Without Production Directors. I suggest a Friday before a holiday weekend.
 
BenTehelenbach said:
Maybe we should organize a nationwide Day Without Production Directors. I suggest a Friday before a holiday weekend.
Click to expand...

Now that's just downright CRUEL! ;D
 
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