How did UHF's make it (if they did) before...

[mjlarochelle]

In Detroit, WXON (now WMYD) started on Channel 62 and later moved to 20.

 

[ixnay]

Thanks for the responses, people.

I grew up in the Philadelphia market. Based on pictures I've seen, the first TV our family had (when I was in diapers) was a VHF-only B&W Motorola (remember when Motorola made TV's, not cellphones or NFL coaches' headsets?). After my parents gave the Motorola to my grandparents (which is where I remember it from), they got a GE B&W (my father, who taught shop in middle school, built a cabinet to house it and our victrola). That's the first TV set I remember being in our house after I began "paying attention", as my mom likes to say. I don't know if that GE had UHF capability, but I remember seeing nothing but channels 3, 6, 10, and Wilmington's channel 12 (NET, now PBS. I liked NET's house-shaped logo, but that's for another thread.).

By the time my parents divorced in 1968, they had traded in that TV/victrola combo for a big Zenith color set and a Zenith FM stereo/victrola. And before you say "victrola???" with a emoticon, be advised that my mom always used "victrola" when referring to record players more advanced than the thingy that Nipper stares at. But I digress. That color Zenith, besides being our household's first color TV, gave me my first taste of channels 17, 29, and 48. When my parents divorced, my mom got custody of not only yours truly (I was 7) but those two Zenith gadgets.

fred flintstone, watching reruns of your namesake after school (and sometimes on Sunday mornings) on WKBS was a ritual that got me through my middle and high school years in the '70s. I even remembering watching reruns of "The Flintstones" (and "The Jetsons") on NBC(?) Saturday mornings during the '67-'68, before my folks divorced. I don't think I ever watched those shows during their prime time runs, certainly not "The Jetsons" in the '62-'63 season.

BTW I may have been subconsciously remembering the couple of times that Barney said "ixnay" to your namesake when registering my R-I handle. ;D

ixnay

 

[pqgeorge]

>>In Detroit, WXON (now WMYD) started on Channel 62 and later moved to 20.<<

I believe the original call-letters of WXON (now WMYD) were WJMY. The only thing they broadcast while on Channel 62 (in 1968) was a B&W legal ID slide. Channel 62 would be reactivated in 1975 as WGPR-TV, a black oriented independent station, co-owned with WGPR-FM (107.5).

Back to Lou Gordon for a moment...... I was a big fan of his "Lou Gordon Program" from 1968 until he died in 1977. We used to get the show on WKBG/WLVI (Channel 56, Cambridge-Boston, MA) twice a week on Saturday mornings and 10:00 PM on Sunday nights. A lot of friends of mine in high school also watched Lou's show as well. One show that really stuck in my mind was when he had "Joey The Hitman" as a guest. This was a guy who made the talk show circuit (even visited "The Mike Douglas Show" as well) wearing a ski-mask and had a pronounced Brooklyn accent. I think Lou was not impressed with this guy and he said so. Joey replied with a not-so-veiled "promise". (Thank God nothing ever came of it.)

I recall that Lou was off the show for several months in 1975 after undergoing open-heart surgery. His guest hosts included his wife Jackie (a regular co-host and a really nice lady) and Dave Diles (an ABC Sports announcer and a very close friend of Lou's). I wish I saw the famous Romney interview. Too bad the shows were not archived. It would have made a great DVD set. Lou was the man and I was glad I had a chance to see the man in action, every Sunday night!

 

[LKellerIII]

"...remember when Motorola made TV's, not cellphones or NFL coaches' headsets?"

Yes - though I believe Motorola was always a big name in 2-way communications, though not necessarily for consumers. In my memory, Motorola was a big supplier of 2 way radios to police, fire, taxis and so forth. I drove cab briefly in my youth (not a job I would recommend to anyone). The 2 way Motorola unit was a huge chrome job under the dashboard, and I remember that you couldn't EVER turn off the engine, or the Motorola would suck the battery dry in a matter of minutes. So you just left the car running for the entire 8 or 10 hour shift. Of course, gas was only 35 cents a gallon. Pardon my off subject digression...

 

[fred flintstone]

"...remember when Motorola made TV's, not cellphones or NFL coaches' headsets?"

Yes - though I believe Motorola was always a big name in 2-way communications, though not necessarily for consumers. In my memory, Motorola was a big supplier of 2 way radios to police, fire, taxis and so forth. I drove cab briefly in my youth (not a job I would recommend to anyone). The 2 way Motorola unit was a huge chrome job under the dashboard, and I remember that you couldn't EVER turn off the engine, or the Motorola would suck the battery dry in a matter of minutes. So you just left the car running for the entire 8 or 10 hour shift. Of course, gas was only 35 cents a gallon. Pardon my off subject digression...

Motorola started out making car radios. In fact they made the first car radios (getting a radio that would work in car was not as easy at first as it now seems - various companies tried to do it). "Ola" was commonly used name for early consumer audio products (as in "Victrola" from Victor, later RCA Victor). "Motor" because it was used in motor cars.

 

[Tim L]

Through some backwards searching (still don't remember how I found it) I read about WICA-TV 15 in Ashtabula, Ohio. A very small market between Cleveland, Youngstown and Erie.The ownership couldnt afford to go with a network, so they tried to make do with live and whatever filmed programs they could find..It was tried twice..about 1953-55 and 1965-67..The market was so small and the station wasnt powerful enough to make an impact..

Peter, Your site was supposed to have a History of WICA-15 at some point, probably using the same articles I found..Old Ashtabula Star-Beacon articles..

 

[pqgeorge]

>>Peter, Your site was supposed to have a History of WICA-15 at some point, probably using the same articles I found..Old Ashtabula Star-Beacon articles..<<

Hi Tim:
Yes, I still have that article on WICA-TV, Channel 15 in a hard copy version. Unfortunately, the original copy (digital) was lost due to a hard drive crash. So, I'm still in the process of re-typing the article for the UHF Morgue. I'm hoping to post the article within a month or two. Sorry for the delay. Do you happen to have a digital copy of the original Ashtabula Star-Beacon articles? If you find them, could you possibly send them as an attachment to me at the e-mail address ([email protected]) and we could post it quickly. If not, we'll get it posted as soon as possible. Thanks!

73,
-Pete

 

[MaiTKwinn]

Tim & Peter,
Re Ashtabula's WICA Channel 15, I remember it quite well. I was living in Mentor, OH during the station's
last days in the late 60's. I had a 7 foot Channel Master parabolic UHF dish on a rotor with a Blonder-Tongue
UHF preamp that gave between 16-20 dB signal boost, but the station was so low in ERP, there was "snow"
on the picture. One of the shows they ran in their final days was the syndicated version of the original
Mickey Mouse Club. I visited the xmtr location sometime in 1968. It was part of the Rowley family's empire
that included WREO AM & FM along with the Star Beacon newspaper. I believe their old TV xmtr was a
Dumont. The antenna was mounted on top of the bigger, thicker tower at the studio/xmtr site in Plymouth
Township, south of Ashtabula city. When you get those articles finished, I'd love to read them. And Tim, keep
up the good work on your history research. It's great reading the old TV schedules and stories you've come
up with.

Chris "The Mighty" Quinn
(ex-DJ WIXY/WGAR/WMJI/WRMR and ex-V/O anncr WAKR 23/WCLQ 61 TV)

 

[bpatrick]

Tampa/St. Petersburg was originally designated all-UHF,
and the only sets that dealers could sell had UHF tuners.
The first station in the market, WSUN/38, signed on in
1953. But at some point (I don't know if it was during
the "freeze" of 1948-52 when the FCC rearranged a number
of channel allocations), VHF channels 3, 8, 10, and 13 were
assigned to the market. WFLA/8 and WTVT/13 both signed
on in 1955, taking NBC and CBS respectively; 3 was reserved
for noncommercial broadcasting; and 10 was the victim of a
battle among several potential licensees before Rahall Communications
finally got the license and put WLCY on the air in 1965.
From 1955-65 Channel 38 was the ABC affiliate; in '65 ABC
elected to go with a VHF, even though 10's transmitter had to
be placed north of the others' in order to avoid short-spacing
Miami's 10. 38 tried to make it as an independent but lost that
battle in the early '70s to WTOG/44 and went dark. It has since
come back as WTTA, if I'm not mistaken.

WNAO/28 Raleigh/Durham was the first station in the market,
in 1953; WTVD/11 came on in '54. These two were CBS and
NBC primary, respectively, divvying up ABC. They were the
only two commercial stations (WUNC/4 was, and is, noncommercial)
until WRAL/5 signed on in December 1956. Advertisers preferred
5's wider coverage area and shifted their commercials from 28 to 5,
signaling the end of 28 in 1958. 28 stayed dark until 1968, returning
as WRDU (now WRDC). Personal note: my parents bought a set with
a UHF tuner in 1957, when 28 was still on the air; after '58 we didn't use it
again until we moved to Norfolk, which had two UHFs at the time,
in 1966. And the picture quality left a LOT to be desired.

 

[ixnay]

"...remember when Motorola made TV's, not cellphones or NFL coaches' headsets?"

Yes - though I believe Motorola was always a big name in 2-way communications, though not necessarily for consumers. In my memory, Motorola was a big supplier of 2 way radios to police, fire, taxis and so forth. I drove cab briefly in my youth (not a job I would recommend to anyone). The 2 way Motorola unit was a huge chrome job under the dashboard, and I remember that you couldn't EVER turn off the engine, or the Motorola would suck the battery dry in a matter of minutes. So you just left the car running for the entire 8 or 10 hour shift. Of course, gas was only 35 cents a gallon. Pardon my off subject digression...

No problem, Lkeller.

IIRC Motorola developed the Quasar set (it was through Motorola's Quasar spots that I first learned the term "quasar"). The Motorola that my folks made was definitely not a Quasar. When did Motorola get out of the TV-making business?

ixnay

 

[Markxxx]

Does anyone know when the FCC required the tuners to be "clickable" to each channel for UHF?

I know in 1964 the FCC said all TV sold after that date must have a UHF tuner but for a long time the tuners were similar to radios, they didn't click on each channel. You just turned the dial to a point where a station came in.

Also Field Communications was broken up because the heirs the two Field sons were in a legal battle over how to divide the assets of the company up. So the companies were sold for cash and the money divided up. It was a pretty nast family fight in the courts.

By 1975 ten years, at least in Chicago UHF was able to compete with VHF. But not in all areas. I recall reading in the Chicago Tribune in old issues Sear would advertise UHF sets, "avail in NW Indiana stores only. I guess they were appealing to the people in NW Indiana that could pull in South Bend.

 

[dhett]

Re: Fresno wasn't always a UHF market

Several other commercial stations began life in the UHF band and moved to VHF. They're in Albany NY (35 to 13), Charleston/Huntington (23 to 11), Hampton Roads (15 to 13), Knoxville (26 to 8 ), Reno (21 to 11) and Salt Lake (20 to 13).

Not quite true with Salt Lake City. Those were two completely separate licenses which co-existed for a few months in 1987. See the KSTU article in Wikipedia.

 

[dhett]

Not only did the lack of a requirement to sell TV sets with a UHF tuner prior to 1964 doom individual UHF TV stations, it also helped cause the failure of the original fourth network, DuMont, which was forced to rely mostly on UHF stations for affiliates. See Wikipedia article on the DuMont Network.

 

[only1moore]

Re: Fresno wasn't always a UHF market

KFRE-TV signed on in 1956 on Channel 12. When the FCC made Fresno an all-UHF market in 1961 KFRE-TV moved to Channel 30. It became KFSN in 1971 and an ABC O&O in 1985.

Several other commercial stations began life in the UHF band and moved to VHF. They're in Albany NY (35 to 13), Charleston/Huntington (23 to 11), Hampton Roads (15 to 13), Knoxville (26 to 8 ), Reno (21 to 11) and Salt Lake (20 to 13).

I had to change that Knoxville one.

Here's another UHF to VHF convert: WSIL-Harrisburg, Ill (From 22 to 3 )

 

[KeithE4]

Does anyone know when the FCC required the tuners to be "clickable" to each channel for UHF?

In the early '70s, IIRC.

I know in 1964 the FCC said all TV sold after that date must have a UHF tuner but for a long time the tuners were similar to radios, they didn't click on each channel. You just turned the dial to a point where a station came in.

Well, maybe it came in. ;D

By 1975 ten years, at least in Chicago UHF was able to compete with VHF. But not in all areas. I recall reading in the Chicago Tribune in old issues Sear would advertise UHF sets, "avail in NW Indiana stores only. I guess they were appealing to the people in NW Indiana that could pull in South Bend.

There was also a PBS station in St. John, IN (20 miles or so south of Hammond) at the time - WCAE Ch. 50 - that was viewable with a decent signal only in NW Indiana and the southern Chicago suburbs. I was just barely able to pick it up with an indoor UHF antenna when I lived near O'Hare Airport.

I doubt that too many folks in "The Region" put up a UHF antenna pointed towards South Bend - I know my family members in that area didn't, although if you lived in Porter or LaPorte Counties, the South Bend stations came in just fine on a UHF loop or bow-tie on the back of the set.

 

[ercjncpr]

clickable UHF was 1973

 

[w9wi]

I doubt that too many folks in "The Region" put up a UHF antenna pointed towards South Bend - I know my family members in that area didn't, although if you lived in Porter or LaPorte Counties, the South Bend stations came in just fine on a UHF loop or bow-tie on the back of the set.

Not even to bust the blackout?

I grew up in Milwaukee, where towers and large antennas were not particularly unusual, especially on bars. There were plenty of well-run stations in Milwaukee, but none of them could air the Packers game if it wasn't sold out far enough in advance. The towers were used to receive the Chicago station that would still carry the game.

I would have thought a few people (and especially bars) south of Chicago would have put up antennas for South Bend to beat the blackout on Bears games. (I'm sure those north of Chicago would have used Milwaukee)

 

[KeithE4]

Not even to bust the blackout?

I'd forgotten about the Bears' blackouts. That would have been the only reason to point an antenna toward South Bend. But since almost every Bear game has been televised since Walter Payton joined the team in '75 (with a few exceptions early-on, but I can't think of any blackouts since maybe 1981), it's been a moot point.

I grew up in Milwaukee, where towers and large antennas were not particularly unusual, especially on bars. There were plenty of well-run stations in Milwaukee, but none of them could air the Packers game if it wasn't sold out far enough in advance. The towers were used to receive the Chicago station that would still carry the game.

I would have thought a few people (and especially bars) south of Chicago would have put up antennas for South Bend to beat the blackout on Bears games. (I'm sure those north of Chicago would have used Milwaukee)

Northside/north- & west-suburban bars' antennas were pointed toward Rockford from what I remember.

 

[rwells2265]

Re: Fresno wasn't always a UHF market

Here's another UHF to VHF convert: WSIL-Harrisburg, Ill (From 22 to 3 )

And another: WTVM/Columbus, Ga. -- moved from 28 to 9 in roughly 1961.

-RW

 

[EnbyCee]

Not even to bust the blackout?

I'd forgotten about the Bears' blackouts. That would have been the only reason to point an antenna toward South Bend. But since almost every Bear game has been televised since Walter Payton joined the team in '75 (with a few exceptions early-on, but I can't think of any blackouts since maybe 1981), it's been a moot point.

I grew up in Milwaukee, where towers and large antennas were not particularly unusual, especially on bars. There were plenty of well-run stations in Milwaukee, but none of them could air the Packers game if it wasn't sold out far enough in advance. The towers were used to receive the Chicago station that would still carry the game.

I would have thought a few people (and especially bars) south of Chicago would have put up antennas for South Bend to beat the blackout on Bears games. (I'm sure those north of Chicago would have used Milwaukee)

Northside/north- & west-suburban bars' antennas were pointed toward Rockford from what I remember.

WITI, Channel 6 from Milwaukee (the CBS affiliate at the time, now it's Fox) has always been a tougher catch in Chicagoland than other Milwaukee channels thanks to being sandwiched between locals on 5 and 7. Though I'd imagine people in most of Lake County, IL had better luck with Milwaukee than Rockford.

Milwaukee, Rockford and South Bend stations were used to get around blackouts for not only the Bears, but also Black Hawks games in their Bobby Hull/Stan Mikita halcyon days. I once read the Tribune sports section for the day of game 7 of the 1971 Stanley Cup finals and they urged fans who couldn't see the game in person or on closed-circuit at a handful of movie theaters scattered through the area to try their luck with those stations. The game was televised nationally on CBS, but owner Arthur Wirtz (who was even more opposed to televising home games than his son Bill, but at least provided a better on-ice product) would not allow WBBM in Chicago to carry it.