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How far do SF FMs go?

travisl5678 said:
Saw a similar thread on the LA Board, personally I picked up KQED once around Red Bluff
Click to expand...

This has come up before, so I'll repeat my comment about going east. Many Bay Area FMs come in as loud and clear in the Yosemite Valley as they do in the City. If you look at a map, Yosemite is almost straight due east from SF.
 
DavidKaye said:
radioguy39nj said:
Looks like KFRC-FM, which simulcasts All News KCBS, gets out far to the east of SF.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KFRC&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Some think it's a waste to simulcast a 50 kW blaster news outlet on a class B FM but I'm sure KCBS would disagree. :)
Click to expand...

KCBS ratings have improved since the FM addition. There are simply a lot of people who can't or won't tune into an AM station.
Click to expand...

Almost no one under age 55 could care less about AM radio. Major market 50 kW AM blasters will probably survive, but even in those markets I think you'll some migration of news, talk and sports to FM. :)
 
radioguy39nj said:
DavidKaye said:
radioguy39nj said:
Looks like KFRC-FM, which simulcasts All News KCBS, gets out far to the east of SF.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KFRC&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Some think it's a waste to simulcast a 50 kW blaster news outlet on a class B FM but I'm sure KCBS would disagree. :)
Click to expand...

KCBS ratings have improved since the FM addition. There are simply a lot of people who can't or won't tune into an AM station.
Click to expand...

Almost no one under age 55 could care less about AM radio. Major market 50 kW AM blasters will probably survive, but even in those markets I think you'll some migration of news, talk and sports to FM. :)
Click to expand...

Already happening. L.A. and San Francisco are a bit behind the curve on this.
 
michael hagerty said:
radioguy39nj said:
DavidKaye said:
radioguy39nj said:
Looks like KFRC-FM, which simulcasts All News KCBS, gets out far to the east of SF.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KFRC&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Some think it's a waste to simulcast a 50 kW blaster news outlet on a class B FM but I'm sure KCBS would disagree. :)
Click to expand...

KCBS ratings have improved since the FM addition. There are simply a lot of people who can't or won't tune into an AM station.
Click to expand...

Almost no one under age 55 could care less about AM radio. Major market 50 kW AM blasters will probably survive, but even in those markets I think you'll some migration of news, talk and sports to FM. :)
Click to expand...

Already happening. L.A. and San Francisco are a bit behind the curve on this.
Click to expand...

New York is even further behind this curve. The Giants and Jets are two of only four NFL teams without an FM flagship or co-flag, the others being the Bears and Broncos. :)
 
michael hagerty said:
From Donner Summit down to about Auburn on I-80, the line of sight is good enough to get most full-power SF FMs.
Click to expand...

Once you get over Donner Summit, on 106.9 KRNO Sunny 106.9 from Reno takes over, same with KFOG I assume with KDOT taking over at the summit.

Once I was stuck in Traffic on I-80 going over the bridge between West Sac and Sacramento, going up the bridge over into West Sac, Sunny 106.9 came in like a local, and once I reached the top of the bridge KCBS took over for the rest of the drive

When I was at Rollins Lake outside Colfax KFRC-FM and KQED-FM came in pretty well (KQED-FM Came in Better than KQEI-FM)

When I was at Camp Far West Lake 10 miles north of Lincoln, KFRC-FM came in like at local there to.

Isn't KIOI 120,000 watts? How far does it go?
 
travisl5678 said:
Isn't KIOI 120,000 watts? How far does it go?
Click to expand...

Don't be fooled by the ERP. 101.3 has a odd directional pattern that limits it's reach, compared to the non directionals. Plus it has to fight with KHYL/101.1 HD hash once you get out near Vacaville on I-80.
 
This is kind of an interesting phenomenon -- I don't live in Norcal, but have visited fairly often. When I travel east or northeast from the Bay Area, I lose the signal from most of the Bay Area stations somewhere in the central valley.

Farther north and east, climbing into the foothills of the Sierras, several of the SF stations become listenable again. I've heard Wild 94.9, Now 99.7, and KDFC 102.1 for sure, and probably others -- well into the Sierras. More than once, I picked up Wild around Lassen Peak in Northern California, 200+ miles from SF, and 99.7 in Nevada, south of Reno/Carson City and well east of the Sierras.

It's kind of interesting to a DX nerd from the East Coast, Norcal locals could probably fill in much more about this.
 
icybluelake said:
This is kind of an interesting phenomenon -- I don't live in Norcal, but have visited fairly often. When I travel east or northeast from the Bay Area, I lose the signal from most of the Bay Area stations somewhere in the central valley.

Farther north and east, climbing into the foothills of the Sierras, several of the SF stations become listenable again. I've heard Wild 94.9, Now 99.7, and KDFC 102.1 for sure, and probably others -- well into the Sierras. More than once, I picked up Wild around Lassen Peak in Northern California, 200+ miles from SF, and 99.7 in Nevada, south of Reno/Carson City and well east of the Sierras.

It's kind of interesting to a DX nerd from the East Coast, Norcal locals could probably fill in much more about this.
Click to expand...

What you normally see as "FCC Contours" only accounts for terrain immediately surrounding the transmitter site.

To get a better idea of how the terrain in the Bay Area truly affects signals, go to this site:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80
and type in the call letters of any San Francisco TV station. Since TV and FM signals propagate very similarly, you will see an example of how an ACTUAL signal propagates over some peaks, and is shadowed out by others, thus affecting where you can hear the signal. You will also see how the signal shows up in some of the Sierras, since their altitudes put them above the line of sight horizon from most of the Bay Area sticks.
 
Domingo said:
icybluelake said:
This is kind of an interesting phenomenon -- I don't live in Norcal, but have visited fairly often. When I travel east or northeast from the Bay Area, I lose the signal from most of the Bay Area stations somewhere in the central valley.

Farther north and east, climbing into the foothills of the Sierras, several of the SF stations become listenable again. I've heard Wild 94.9, Now 99.7, and KDFC 102.1 for sure, and probably others -- well into the Sierras. More than once, I picked up Wild around Lassen Peak in Northern California, 200+ miles from SF, and 99.7 in Nevada, south of Reno/Carson City and well east of the Sierras.

It's kind of interesting to a DX nerd from the East Coast, Norcal locals could probably fill in much more about this.
Click to expand...

What you normally see as "FCC Contours" only accounts for terrain immediately surrounding the transmitter site.

To get a better idea of how the terrain in the Bay Area truly affects signals, go to this site:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80
and type in the call letters of any San Francisco TV station. Since TV and FM signals propagate very similarly, you will see an example of how an ACTUAL signal propagates over some peaks, and is shadowed out by others, thus affecting where you can hear the signal. You will also see how the signal shows up in some of the Sierras, since their altitudes put them above the line of sight horizon from most of the Bay Area sticks.
Click to expand...

This dosen't work for FM, only TV

I'm getting "ERROR: Your search returned zero results. Please try again." for FM Calls
 
MarioMania said:
To get a better idea of how the terrain in the Bay Area truly affects signals, go to this site:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80
and type in the call letters of any San Francisco TV station. Since TV and FM signals propagate very similarly, you will see an example of how an ACTUAL signal propagates over some peaks, and is shadowed out by others, thus affecting where you can hear the signal.
Click to expand...

This dosen't work for FM, only TV

I'm getting "ERROR: Your search returned zero results. Please try again." for FM Calls
[/quote]



Like I said, type in the calls of a TV station - FM and TV propagate very similarly and you will get an IDEA of how the FM signals cover the Bay Area. The site does NOT map FMs, but I can assure the TV maps look extremely similar to what an FM at the same location and height would look like.
 
"KPFA is quite powerful" Just to clear this up, it wasn't KPFA. It was somewhere in the noncom band and maybe 200 watts. It happened over 30 years ago. All I remember is being in those mountains and having that SF based "pea shooter" come in like gangbusters!
 
Most, if not all of the signals you can get up there, are coming from Sutro Tower, which sits on top of a small mountain.

If you're up in the Sierras, that's a straight shot (though far) to an elevated receiving antenna!

The Bay stations come in easier and more readily then the much closer Sac signals because of this.
 
For reference, you can enter channel 7 (KGO) in TV Fool for the Sutro stations (96.5, 98.9, 103.7, and 104.5) and you can use channel 11 (KNTV) to get approximate coverage of the San Bruno stations (88.5, 94.9, 95.7, 99.7, 101.3, 102.9, 105.3, 106.5, and 107.7).

Or, if you're totally energetic there's the Longley Rice prediction program at http://lrcov.crc.ca/main/ for really accurate info. Pretty much any full-power San Francisco station that isn't 1st adjacent to a Sacramento channel or covered up by a translator works all over the Sierra Foothills if you have a decent radio.

I used to even get KFJC (108 watts) from Foothill College before they put another K-Love on in Lodi.

Dave B.
 
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