Execept when you loose it, just like the internet streams. Repeated rebuffering and analog/digital switching back and forth have been often reported as some of the most annoying HD Radio deficiencies. So your statement is untrue.IBOCRocks said:SUPERCASTER said:HD Radio buffers too! :IBOCRocks said:
Only once though (upon tuning the station).
The more you know...
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How far will HD go?
- Thread starter jras20
- Start date
I
IBOCRocks
Guest
SUPERCASTER said:Execept when you loose it, just like the internet streams. Repeated rebuffering and analog/digital switching back and forth have been often reported as some of the most annoying HD Radio deficiencies. So your statement is untrue.IBOCRocks said:SUPERCASTER said:HD Radio buffers too! :IBOCRocks said:
Only once though (upon tuning the station).
The more you know...
No it's not untrue. The radio is not re-buffering, it's falling over to analog. If the system is set up correctly (as most are) it rolls to analog without any artifact. The timing is exact.
So the "most annoying" deficiency is simply a poor implementation.
So you're statement is untrue. Of course, since you don't work with any of this stuff, I can't expect you to know that.
SUPERCASTER said:
If you lose the HD stream, you get the analog signal. There is no change except the loss of quality, as the two signals are synchronized. The analog signal is buffered 8.1 seconds (under current implementation of firmware 2.2.5) to make up for the processing delay of 8.1 seconds in the digital HD signal.
So, you can go back and forth from analog to digital without losing the time reference... they are simultaneous at the receiver end. The buffering is to hold back the analog signal so it matches the digital, and it is 100% precise.
The highly promoted HD2, HD3, streams that offer the "content not available" on the main analog channel have no analog to roll back to, and must rebuffer. So your statements are still untrue and deceptive but that is no surprize from HD supporters. HD Radio has always been defective, and deceptively promoted.DavidEduardo said:
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SayNoToIBOC
Guest
David wrote: "So, you can go back and forth from analog to digital without losing the time reference... they are simultaneous at the receiver end. The buffering is to hold back the analog signal so it matches the digital, and it is 100% precise. "
Yea, that's why WCBS dumped IBOC:
DX LISTENING DIGEST 6-094, June 28, 2006
"U.S.A. WCBS DUMPS IBOC, RETURNS TO 'HIGH DEFINITION' AM"
After less than a week of transmitting the IBOC buzz, NYC's 880 WCBS
has returned to "High Definition" analog AM with crisp, clear 10 kHz
audio. A possible reason for this may be the numerous complaints they
received due to the 8-1/2 second delay the IBOC exciter added to their
audio, which made their Yankees play-by-play out of synch for people
listening at the game or while watching it on TV. I first noticed the
IBOC hash generator was off during a Yankees game today, but now
during normal "Newsradio" programming it is still off, and their audio
sounds a lot better too.
When they had the IBOC on, their analog audio was still pretty crisp
(they had it in 8 kHz bandwidth mode) but it had a strange kind of
clipping distortion which made the announcers sound like they were
holding their nose while they spoke, and for an all-news format that
can get rather annoying. There was also some rather obvious slack in
the AGC; when jumping from one programming element to the next, the
audio would often start out very quiet and gradually ramp up in level.
With their old processing (Optimod 9100?) now back in service, there
is still a little gain-riding in these instances but it is a lot
smoother and all of that nasty distortion is gone. And of course on a
wideband receiver there is no mistaking that beautiful full-bandwidth
audio! (Kevin Tekel, June 28, BC radiolist via Bill Harms, DXLD)
Yea, that's why WCBS dumped IBOC:
DX LISTENING DIGEST 6-094, June 28, 2006
"U.S.A. WCBS DUMPS IBOC, RETURNS TO 'HIGH DEFINITION' AM"
After less than a week of transmitting the IBOC buzz, NYC's 880 WCBS
has returned to "High Definition" analog AM with crisp, clear 10 kHz
audio. A possible reason for this may be the numerous complaints they
received due to the 8-1/2 second delay the IBOC exciter added to their
audio, which made their Yankees play-by-play out of synch for people
listening at the game or while watching it on TV. I first noticed the
IBOC hash generator was off during a Yankees game today, but now
during normal "Newsradio" programming it is still off, and their audio
sounds a lot better too.
When they had the IBOC on, their analog audio was still pretty crisp
(they had it in 8 kHz bandwidth mode) but it had a strange kind of
clipping distortion which made the announcers sound like they were
holding their nose while they spoke, and for an all-news format that
can get rather annoying. There was also some rather obvious slack in
the AGC; when jumping from one programming element to the next, the
audio would often start out very quiet and gradually ramp up in level.
With their old processing (Optimod 9100?) now back in service, there
is still a little gain-riding in these instances but it is a lot
smoother and all of that nasty distortion is gone. And of course on a
wideband receiver there is no mistaking that beautiful full-bandwidth
audio! (Kevin Tekel, June 28, BC radiolist via Bill Harms, DXLD)
A
autopaint-1
Guest
WCBS AM is still running IBOC. They turn it off for Yankees baseball.
I know for a fact that both WCBS & WFAN turn off their IBOC exciters during Mets & Yankees baseball games. The reason? People turn down their TV audio and listen to the radio during the games and people carry their radios to the ballpark and listen to the radio while watching the game. When the game is over the IBOC switches back on. What the DXers don't understand is that their opinions carry no weight. Broadcasters don't care about pleasing DXers. The sooner they learn that the better off they'll be. Their numbers are less the .5 % of the total audience, if that and skywave is not protected. As far as dropping power on the larger stations, forget it. It won't happen. These stations are following the law. If you don't like a law try to change it. Until then these stations will operate in their normal legal manor. Unlike many smallewr stations these stations have a full time engineering staff and they make sure that these facilities meet every letter of the law.
I know for a fact that both WCBS & WFAN turn off their IBOC exciters during Mets & Yankees baseball games. The reason? People turn down their TV audio and listen to the radio during the games and people carry their radios to the ballpark and listen to the radio while watching the game. When the game is over the IBOC switches back on. What the DXers don't understand is that their opinions carry no weight. Broadcasters don't care about pleasing DXers. The sooner they learn that the better off they'll be. Their numbers are less the .5 % of the total audience, if that and skywave is not protected. As far as dropping power on the larger stations, forget it. It won't happen. These stations are following the law. If you don't like a law try to change it. Until then these stations will operate in their normal legal manor. Unlike many smallewr stations these stations have a full time engineering staff and they make sure that these facilities meet every letter of the law.
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
Well, da...
A
autopaint-1
Guest
"Well, da..."
It's this kind of foolish insulting off topic comment that gets you thrown off responsible message boards. Why don't you grow up and learn how to get along with others.
It's this kind of foolish insulting off topic comment that gets you thrown off responsible message boards. Why don't you grow up and learn how to get along with others.
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
Why, don't you stop posting idiotic comments ? And, what message boards have I been thrown off ? At least, I don't write laughable eulogies, like your buddy !
1
1q2w3e
Guest
autopaint-1 said:
Most other stations just eliminate the 8 second delay but keep the HD Signal up. But nowadays, with all of the satellite TV transmission and any other delay that the TV stations put in (like the "Janet Jackson filter") there has become quite a delay in the tv signal. If you are watching on Directtv it is even worse. So the 8 second delay is becoming less and less of an issue.
In regards to our LITTLE MINDED "friend"..... PLEASE PLEASE! Do not respond to it. Do not lower yourself to its level. He got booted at the other board (which I cannot name here -- and that in itself is childish) and if this board had a decent moderator this idiot would be booted here as well. But the moderator allows this type of childish behavior to happen here, lowering the standards of the web site. I find myself spending less and less time here and more time over "there" where there are porfessional discussions.
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autopaint-1
Guest
"I find myself spending less and less time here and more time over "there" where there are porfessional discussions."
I can't disagree with anything you said. The problem is that the level of activity there is so low. Maybe that's a good thing.
I can't disagree with anything you said. The problem is that the level of activity there is so low. Maybe that's a good thing.
I
IBOCRocks
Guest
SayNoToIBOC said:
Tsk, tsk, temper temper! Looks like we hurt your feelings. Is this what they teach you at the "CIA". When losing an argument, swear and call people names?
It's funny, I was watching a show on Discovery yesterday about a prison. The inmates came off as more mature as you. But I guess when you're desparate, you'll do anything, like:
*Swear
*Threaten
*Call Names
*Lie
*Manipulate consumer reviews
My, what a BIG man you are!
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
Yea, the pro-IBOC biased moderators will protect you over "there" ! You are truly amusing !
autopaint-1 said:
That's an ingenious quick fix for the delay problem, but what happens long term? That is assuming that IBOC becomes the standard and analog goes away as many of you have predicted. You'll still have the 8+ second processing delay, won't you?
I somehow doubt that the TV networks will delay the video 8 seconds to accommodate, unless they happen to be owned by the same folks doing the radio broadcast.
A
autopaint-1
Guest
Radio stations can't be programed to follow television feeds. What these stations are trying to achieve is beyond me. As others have said with the advent of Directv and other carriers radio audio and video never sync up anyway. This is a holdover from a bygone era.
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
There is NO way analog radio is going away, in the foreseeable future - "traditional analog radio, even with advances aligned with High Definition technology, may sustain popular use - especially among older listeners. This, of course, relies on quality of the programming." There are 1 billion analog radios in the US and broadcasters, especially with a declining audience, cannot afford to cut every one off. If they do, then people will not spend $200 on digital radios, but will turn to other sources of entertainment, as they have been doing, at an accelerated pace. This is an interest snippet, from the "other" site:
"Yesterday I went to the local Radio Shack and asked if they had HD radios. They said that they won't get them until at least the holidays! Then I asked which stations in the area have HD radio. [EDIT]
The future does not look good if we don't see HD radios in stores soon. If the broadcasters promote HD radio more (besides burying it in the legal ID), then more people would know. Right now, the way I find out if a station recently got HD is when I hear IBOC trash that was not there before."
Well, the HD Radio Cartel has this saleman snowed, that HD stands for "High Definition". And with this comment off Amazon:
[EDIT]
HD Radio is in real trouble, especially with all the technical issues/problems (costs to broadcasters, issues with the FCC, RIAA, etc.) and from the many comments from blogs, that people are wise to this nonsense. Any HD Radio demo in stores, is going to be a complete joke, especially with poor structure penetration and average audio. There will be nothing to demo. No one is interested in table-top AM/FM radios with dipole antennas, especially with the recommendation that they be mounted high and outside. As the Amazon snippet confirmed, people use AM/FM radio for alarm clocks, not for every day table-top listening, and the AM/FM boom-boxes sounded and looked much better than the Receptor HD. Plus, people don't buy AM/FM boom-boxes, unless they have CD players, or the like, with something extra. I heard a Satellite Radio boom-box in Radio Shack, and it sounded great, and looked a lot more appealing than that junky looking Receptor HD radio in Best Buy. Boy, HD Radio has really missed the mark on this one ! Portablility, asthestics, and full featured boom-boxes will always outsell table-top models, by far. I bet any portable HD radio, will be too much of a battery hog, much more so than even a PLL radio.
This snippet, off the "other" site, just confirms my experience at Best Buy:
"I went to Tweeter today and sampled the Boston Acoustics radio. My thoughts are that HD Radio is nifty, however I had some issues. [EDIT] "
[EDIT-paragraphs truncated because of unauthorized use of copyrighted content]
"Yesterday I went to the local Radio Shack and asked if they had HD radios. They said that they won't get them until at least the holidays! Then I asked which stations in the area have HD radio. [EDIT]
The future does not look good if we don't see HD radios in stores soon. If the broadcasters promote HD radio more (besides burying it in the legal ID), then more people would know. Right now, the way I find out if a station recently got HD is when I hear IBOC trash that was not there before."
Well, the HD Radio Cartel has this saleman snowed, that HD stands for "High Definition". And with this comment off Amazon:
[EDIT]
HD Radio is in real trouble, especially with all the technical issues/problems (costs to broadcasters, issues with the FCC, RIAA, etc.) and from the many comments from blogs, that people are wise to this nonsense. Any HD Radio demo in stores, is going to be a complete joke, especially with poor structure penetration and average audio. There will be nothing to demo. No one is interested in table-top AM/FM radios with dipole antennas, especially with the recommendation that they be mounted high and outside. As the Amazon snippet confirmed, people use AM/FM radio for alarm clocks, not for every day table-top listening, and the AM/FM boom-boxes sounded and looked much better than the Receptor HD. Plus, people don't buy AM/FM boom-boxes, unless they have CD players, or the like, with something extra. I heard a Satellite Radio boom-box in Radio Shack, and it sounded great, and looked a lot more appealing than that junky looking Receptor HD radio in Best Buy. Boy, HD Radio has really missed the mark on this one ! Portablility, asthestics, and full featured boom-boxes will always outsell table-top models, by far. I bet any portable HD radio, will be too much of a battery hog, much more so than even a PLL radio.
This snippet, off the "other" site, just confirms my experience at Best Buy:
"I went to Tweeter today and sampled the Boston Acoustics radio. My thoughts are that HD Radio is nifty, however I had some issues. [EDIT] "
[EDIT-paragraphs truncated because of unauthorized use of copyrighted content]
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
And, this snippet, off the "other" site, referring to the I-Sonic HD radio:
"If you've got $599.00 lying around, you can get a HD Radio with a CD Player and XM Capabilities(you have to have a XM Plug and Play Attenna or the reciever thing.) Otherwise, ya, I say wait, I'll betcha the I-Sonic will be marked down at least $200 by the end of the year. "
Two points:
1) So, it MAY come down to $399, like anyone is going to pay that kind of price - people aren't even willing to spend $299, or $199, on HD radios - HD radio wll need to come down to $60 to be competitive, like that really nice looking, excellent sounding Satellite Radio boom-box in Radio Shack (plus, it had a real nice display area, and there were no HD radios).
2) Looks like this radio needs to have an XM capability, in order to sell - what does that say !
"If you've got $599.00 lying around, you can get a HD Radio with a CD Player and XM Capabilities(you have to have a XM Plug and Play Attenna or the reciever thing.) Otherwise, ya, I say wait, I'll betcha the I-Sonic will be marked down at least $200 by the end of the year. "
Two points:
1) So, it MAY come down to $399, like anyone is going to pay that kind of price - people aren't even willing to spend $299, or $199, on HD radios - HD radio wll need to come down to $60 to be competitive, like that really nice looking, excellent sounding Satellite Radio boom-box in Radio Shack (plus, it had a real nice display area, and there were no HD radios).
2) Looks like this radio needs to have an XM capability, in order to sell - what does that say !
A
autopaint-1
Guest
"There is NO way analog radio is going away, in the foreseeable future - "traditional analog radio, even with advances aligned with High Definition technology, may sustain popular use - especially among older listeners"
What about analogue TV? It's going away and televisions are far more expensive than radios. Such is life.
What about analogue TV? It's going away and televisions are far more expensive than radios. Such is life.
SayNoToIBOC said:
I acually had that same problem! No one knew what the hell HD-radio was, I went into 5 diffrent stores really wanting to hear it, ONE person knew what HD radio was, but he showed me the radio that had it, I would of had to buy a seperate tuner on top of the 229$ radio! I'd love to hear it if I ever could find a place with one!
S
SayNoToIBOC
Guest
Best Buy had on Receptor HD radio, but I had to get them to plug it in - no wonder, I could only get 2 FM stations, while the analog boom-boxes got all stations.
autopaint-1 wrote : "What about analogue TV? It's going away and televisions are far more expensive than radios. Such is life."
TV is not nearly in the trouble, as terrestrial radio - people care a lot more about TV, than AM/FM radio ! Keep dreaming, it isn't going to happen !
autopaint-1 wrote : "What about analogue TV? It's going away and televisions are far more expensive than radios. Such is life."
TV is not nearly in the trouble, as terrestrial radio - people care a lot more about TV, than AM/FM radio ! Keep dreaming, it isn't going to happen !
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