How far will HD go?

[jras20]

There is really only 3 or so shows I really watch on TV the rest of the time when I'm working I'm listening to the radio, I would really would hate to see Analog tv go away, because I have just baught one like 2 years ago, I dont think I want to buy a box yet they will half to be really cheap before I upgrade my tv. Radio would be more for me than TV.

 

[autopaint-1]

"TV is not nearly in the trouble, as terrestrial radio - people care a lot more about TV, than AM/FM radio ! Keep dreaming, it isn't going to happen"

What does this have t do with the point I made. People will have to spend thousands of dollars to replace their soon to be obsolete televisions. The FCC has mandated the closure of analogue tranmission. Terrstrial radio isn't in bad shape yet. It's trying to stay ahead so that it can compete as technology changes. I think my IBOC demo proves that it's a improvement and on another board the response has been very positive. People were knocked out by what IBOC did for WABC. Wait till they turn off the analogue (I know, it will never happen. OK this way you don't have to bore us with the same argument) AM will sound really great when they can increase the bit rate.

 

[calstymes]

autopaint-1 expunged:

People will have to spend thousands of dollars to replace their soon to be obsolete televisions. The FCC has mandated the closure of analogue tranmission.

And do you REALLY think this is going to happen "on schedule"? Gosh I hope not. There is going to be such an outcry by the public in 2009 (or whenever the heck the FCC thinks this is going to happen) that this sunset deadline WILL be extended (if not entirely eliminated). Imagine for a moment what will happen when the government tells the great unwashed population in America that three years from now all "non-digital" TV sets are going to stop working and that everyone is going to have to spend "thousands of dollars" on new TVs to be able to watch TV again. In the words of your own Dr. Phil: "Not gonna happen".

Terrstrial radio isn't in bad shape yet. It's trying to stay ahead so that it can compete as technology changes. I think my IBOC demo proves that it's a improvement and on another board the response has been very positive.

That is YOU. You are on the cutting edge (if you consider HDradio cutting edge) and you also happen to work in the industry in the #1 market in the country which means you earn a decent living and can afford to purchase new toys. The great unwashed public is only NOW beginning to become vaguely aware of HDradio (and also don't care about it), and when it comes to people's pocketbooks, sunset deadlines are VERY, VERY dangerous. If HD/IBOC does indeed become the standard (and I hope that won't happen either), then the government had better tread VERY lightly and let older analog equipment die a natural death rather than mandate its obsolescence. If you think broadcasters are in trouble now, wait until this government mandated sunset goes into effect. People WILL revolt. And I will be one of them.

People were knocked out by what IBOC did for WABC.

Really? How so? Were they also knocked out by what it did for WCBS, WFAN, WNYC and WOR (and anyone else in the consortium that is running it)? In other words, I guess what I am asking is, what is special about WABC's implementation of HD/IBOC that "knocked people out"?

 

[autopaint-1]

"And do you REALLY think this is going to happen "on schedule"? Gosh I hope not. There is going to be such an outcry by the public in 2009 (or whenever the heck the FCC thinks this is going to happen) that this sunset deadline WILL be extended (if not entirely eliminated). Imagine for a moment what will happen when the government tells the great unwashed population in America that three years from now all "non-digital" TV sets are going to stop working and that everyone is going to have to spend "thousands of dollars" on new TVs to be able to watch TV again. In the words of your own Dr. Phil: "Not gonna happen"."


Dr. Phil? Wrong network. Whether it happens in 2009 or 2019 it WILL happen and what will probbaly happen is that cable/satelites will offer analogue but the over the air transmitters will go silent. Most current cable ops get their feeds over fiber so what a station is transmitting over the air isn't all that important and of coure there will be convertor boxes for sale. It will happen, like it or not.



"That is YOU. You are on the cutting edge (if you consider HDradio cutting edge) and you also happen to work in the industry in the #1 market in the country which means you earn a decent living and can afford to purchase new toys. The great unwashed public is only NOW beginning to become vaguely aware of HDradio (and also don't care about it), and when it comes to people's pocketbooks, sunset deadlines are VERY, VERY dangerous. If HD/IBOC does indeed become the standard (and I hope that won't happen either), then the government had better tread VERY lightly and let older analog equipment die a natural death rather than mandate its obsolescence. If you think broadcasters are in trouble now, wait until this government mandated sunset goes into effect. People WILL revolt. And I will be one of them."

I think this will be the revolution that maybe 100 people attended. People will adjust and survive. It will take years for this to happen but the conversion must start somewhere. How about all those turntables (many more than radios) which are now in the junk yard?


"Really? How so? Were they also knocked out by what it did for WCBS, WFAN, WNYC and WOR (and anyone
else in the consortium that is running it)? In other words, I guess what I am asking is, what is special about WABC's implementation of HD/IBOC that "knocked people out"?"

I posted the demo in here too. Check it out. They said that WABC sounded great and you have to remember that they are only feeding the transmitter with 7.5 K audio. But they have a Saturday music show and although not perfect it's better than some of the satellite feeds, is much better quality than analogue and it is free.

 

[calstymes]

autopaint-1 painted:

Dr. Phil? Wrong network.

See? I don't even watch enough TV now to know what network he is on. What network IS he on? I thought it was CBS.

I think this will be the revolution that maybe 100 people attended. People will adjust and survive.

You think? Ah well, I guess they will. You can afford the toys and I'm a moron. You win. IBOC is here to stay (not if I can help it).

It will take years for this to happen but the conversion must start somewhere.

Fine. But don't mandate that I have to throw away perfectly good equipment that may only be a few years old just because some consortium convinced the government that this is what I MUST do.

How about all those turntables (many more than radios) which are now in the junk yard?

But there was no government-mandated SUNSET on their use! That's a LOT different than telling the public they won't be able to hear analog over-the-air broadcasting anymore because it has been replaced by "better" technology that you can't use until you purchase a new toy.

And haven't there been occasions over the past 10 years that you'd wished you hadn't thrown that old turntable away?

It's ok... you don't have to answer.

 

[autopaint-1]

"Fine. But don't mandate that I have to throw away perfectly good equipment that may only be a few years old just because some consortium convinced the government that this is what I MUST do."

THAT is the point of IBOC. It will be a slow process, unlike if they created a new band and just turned off analogue in a predetermined time. No one is forcing anyone to convert to digital. You own a station and want to stay analogue, go right ahead.

 

[autopaint-1]

"And haven't there been occasions over the past 10 years that you'd wished you hadn't thrown that old turntable away?"

I didn't. I have a Dennon DP60L with a sumiko blue point moving coil cartridge. the table ws 700$ back in the early 80's. I also own 2 cylinder machines and a Victrola 14. I also have a MCI Reel To Reel (10 inch reels) and assorted cart machines, yea I still use them for production) and 2 DAT machines (Both Tascam). I'm not talking me, the average person threw out their records and bought new equipment. It's just the way peole are, like it or not and the turn over time on equipment isn't all that long. I'd say less than 10 years.

 

[IBOCRocks]

Fine. But don't mandate that I have to throw away perfectly good equipment that may only be a few years old just because some consortium convinced the government that this is what I MUST do.

The point is that there IS NO MANDATE. I'm pretty certain there never will be, either. HDTV was mandated because the FCC needed the frequencies. IBOC is voluntary.

I am willing to bet that even in my children's lifetime there will be no sunset of analog radio. I can think of a bunch of reasons why...

 

[jras20]

I have never heard HD radio or how strong it is, so I really dont know about how it is. But Sat. radio is very spotty in my house, I can get XM radio in some spots in my room, Sirius I might could get it in one spot for a very short time, then it wont get a signal. I'm hoping HD radio will be a little better than that. I just wouldnt pay for service that I can only get it in spots.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

There is really only 3 or so shows I really watch on TV the rest of the time when I'm working I'm listening to the radio, I would really would hate to see Analog tv go away, because I have just baught one like 2 years ago, I dont think I want to buy a box yet they will half to be really cheap before I upgrade my tv. Radio would be more for me than TV.

Try the Acoustic Energy internet radio. It gets HD Radio streams, XM streams, and thousands of other NEW internet streaming stations anwhere in the world there is a wireless internet connection. They are selling so fast stores can hardly keep them in stock.
Here is a link to just one reputable supplier. Others may have it cheaper.
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/internet-radios/acoustic-energy-wi-fi-internet-radio.aspx

 

[jras20]

That wont really do me much good though out at my country place where there is no high speed.

 

[autopaint-1]

Jras May I suggest you give a listen to the HD demos I have posted to give you an idea of what the systems sounds like;

AM Sample; http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5347EBD848B6C5EE

FM (HD 2) Sample; http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6F1C4B332440C1CE

These are wav files and relatively large but they are examples of HD audio. I also have a HD 320 Kbps MP3 demo. It will give you an idea of what HD sounds like but in reality HD sounds a bit better than it does here due to recompression of a previously compressed file;

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6542486655A55851

How far are you from your local stations and if you could tell us which HD stations you wish to listen to. That information would be helpful. Of course you can always connect your radio to an outside TV antenna if you have one and that would almost insure reception of your local HD FM stations. Only FM HD stations contain HD 1, 2 & 3 capability.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

That wont really do me much good though out at my country place where there is no high speed.

Many HD Radio owners report coverage problems outside the station's primary area. Perhaps you should check first to see if there are any local HD stations with coverage at your "country place". You can also check out the HD Radio webstreams provided on most HD stations websites to see if they have any HD streams that you are interested in hearing. The bitrate is so low since they have begun adding HD2, and HD3 to the same bandwidth, that the internet stream, even over dialup is probably just as good for most people, and you get the added bonus of thousands of other NEW stations and streams you can't get on your analog or HD radio!

 

[autopaint-1]

The bitrate is so low since they have begun adding HD2, and HD3 to the same bandwidth, that the internet stream, even over dialup is probably just as good for most people, and you get the added bonus of thousands of other NEW stations and streams you can't get on your analog or HD radio!

Although HD uses a relatively low bit rate this is missinformation. Ibiquity is no longer using the AT&T/Lucent algorithm they nearly went with. The new codec is superb and my demos back up that claim.

 

[jras20]

Jras May I suggest you give a listen to the HD demos I have posted to give you an idea of what the systems sounds like;

AM Sample; http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5347EBD848B6C5EE

FM (HD 2) Sample; http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6F1C4B332440C1CE

These are wav files and relatively large but they are examples of HD audio. I also have a HD 320 Kbps MP3 demo. It will give you an idea of what HD sounds like but in reality HD sounds a bit better than it does here due to recompression of a previously compressed file;

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=6542486655A55851

How far are you from your local stations and if you could tell us which HD stations you wish to listen to. That information would be helpful. Of course you can always connect your radio to an outside TV antenna if you have one and that would almost insure reception of your local HD FM stations. Only FM HD stations contain HD 1, 2 & 3 capability.

Thanks, I listened to them, sounded really good, I live probably 60 miles from a San antonio & about 32 miles from Austin, I have a outdoor antenna about 24 or so feet up, I use to have it higher, but lightling got it so I pulled it down. I also have my TV antenna up on the same pole. I know I can recieve the digital sideband noise on the FM channels from San antonio, durring the summer months though I get skips, that would probably effect my reception? but the wierd thing is durring those skips, I can still hear the digital noise sidebands.

 

[autopaint-1]

I would suggest waitning a few months for the new Tivoli 2nd generation HD radio. While the Boston Acoustic radio might work for you, the new chip specifically was designed to overcome the short comings of the first generation chip. Of course over time there will be improvements. I'd also suggest that you purchase a radio with the priviso that you can return it if it doesn't work up to your expectations considering your unusual circumstances. If your antennas are on rotors and you can get a decent TV picture from either of those cities, I think you'll be OK with HD radio. Of course a mast mounted pre-amp isn't a bad thing to have either. Good luck!!

 

[jras20]

I would suggest waitning a few months for the new Tivoli 2nd generation HD radio. While the Boston Acoustic radio might work for you, the new chip specifically was designed to overcome the short comings of the first generation chip. Of course over time there will be improvements. I'd also suggest that you purchase a radio with the priviso that you can return it if it doesn't work up to your expectations considering your unusual circumstances. If your antennas are on rotors and you can get a decent TV picture from either of those cities, I think you'll be OK with HD radio. Of course a mast mounted pre-amp isn't a bad thing to have either. Good luck!!

I have another place about 86 miles from Houston, I have the same antenna up about 20' up in the air, I know it can pull in all the Houston digital signals, I can hear the sidebands very good, I just wonder how well it would workin my truck, its very fringy area out there. It may not work very good for the car out there.

 

[autopaint-1]

You are talking very deep fringe areas. If you can hear the sidebands I assume you are talking AM stations. I stand by my comment. Wair for the soon to be released 2nd generation radios. In the part of the country you have first adjacent 50 KW radio stations under 100 miles apart (KYW & WEPN). No one listens to stations at that distance in the North east but your part of the country is a different matter. Without the receiver desense issues we face here you might be alright. For instance on a am walkman years ago I couldn't receive WHO due to the much stronger WHN (1050). I flew with a friend to the Poconoes in Eastern Pa. and using the same radio WHO came in like a local and that was only by going 70 miles or so west from NYC.

 

[jras20]

You are talking very deep fringe areas. If you can hear the sidebands I assume you are talking AM stations. I stand by my comment. Wair for the soon to be released 2nd generation radios. In the part of the country you have first adjacent 50 KW radio stations under 100 miles apart (KYW & WEPN). No one listens to stations at that distance in the North east but your part of the country is a different matter. Without the receiver desense issues we face here you might be alright. For instance on a am walkman years ago I couldn't receive WHO due to the much stronger WHN (1050). I flew with a friend to the Poconoes in Eastern Pa. and using the same radio WHO came in like a local and that was only by going 70 miles or so west from NYC.

I can hear the noise in the FM bands, if you listen to them on a analog radio you can hear a diffrents in the sidebands between the ones that is broadcasting in digital & in analog, same with am. I am not sure if any am stations are yet in HD in Houston, these on the transmitter are 97 kw stations.

 

[autopaint-1]

As I recommended earlier, buy a radio which you can return if it doesn't work at your location. If you can clearly hear the digital signal than there's no reason to believe it can't be decoded. Wait fort the second gen chip though.You are talking very deep fringe areas. On FM it's all about line of site.