How far will HD go?

[jras20]

As I recommended earlier, buy a radio which you can return if it doesn't work at your location. If you can clearly hear the digital signal than there's no reason to believe it can't be decoded. Wait fort the second gen chip though.You are talking very deep fringe areas. On FM it's all about line of site.

Thanks for all the info & suggestions, I hope to buy one from Bestbuy here if they will get the secound gen. in, I think one of the things that really would help me out, is out there at the other place it is almost a straight shot from there to Houston, really no hills at all, all flat lands, Its so good out there I can even pull in Lake Charles nearly all the time, thats a 225 mile pickup! I'll be also intersted in seeing how sensitive those radios will be.

 

[autopaint-1]

You're very welcome. Sounds like a great spot for radio and I'm envious. I know that area. Drove from south texas to New Orleans once right through Lake Charles. You could see or miles. I remember going through Tyler and seeing quite a few Tornadoes in the distance in all directions. I think the whole point of generation two is the sensitivity issue. I guess we'll see soon enough. How do I explain the need for another new radio to my wife.

 

[vsa]

JRAS20 WROTE: "That wont really do me much good though out at my country place (IN TEXAS) where there is no high speed."

High speed Internet? The wireless broadband kind is already available in several areas of Texas. May I point you to Clearwire?

http://www.clearwire.com/index.html

It's only a matter of time before the whole country gets it from Clearwire and several competing companies.

 

[vsa]

JRAS20 WROTE: "I can even pull in Lake Charles nearly all the time, thats a 225 mile pickup!  I'll be also intersted in seeing how sensitive those radios will be."

I'm sorry. Listening to a radio station at 225 miles makes you a "DXer". HD Radio people hate DXers and think DXers are selfish sub-humans who should no longer be allowed to listen at those distances.

David Eduardo insists that everybody only listens to a signal that is so strong that all you really need is a toaster or properly-tuned dental fillings. He says Arbitron backs him up and is completely accurate. People who fill out those diaries always follow the instructions to-the-letter and never waiver. He also says nobody listens to radio at long distances, so perhaps you are making up all of this stuff about living out in the country. 

 

[autopaint-1]

"I'm sorry. Listening to a radio station at 225 miles makes you a "DXer". HD Radio people hate DXers and think DXers are selfish sub-humans who should no longer be allowed to listen at those distances."

Why do you sound so angry? No one in here implied that DXers are "sub human". Most of us are DXers too. The difference being that we realize that our need to DX is a luxury that is of no importance in the scheme of things. This gentleman is one of a very small handful of people who live a great distance from any broadcaster. Yes, his group is small in number but he's not listening to a station many miles away rather than his local fare for the challenge. The population density in his area apparently can't support a local station and so his only choice for FREE radio is to get his news & entertainment from deep fringe radio stations. You can DX all you want, even when HD stations become more numerous. No one is holding a gun to your head, but your "hobby" isn't more important than the livelyhood of the broadcast industry or improved sound & service for the vast majority of citizens who only want to listen to their local radio station. As far as Wi-Fi, lets be real here. It has a very promising future but there are a few issues you left out. Wi-Fi may or may not be free. It will take a major upgrade for these internet streamers to provide service for millions of simutanious listeners and just the construction of these systems so that they become seamless as you travel across the country will take many years. Just getting wireless into NYC will take many years. If you have ever followed a road construction project in this part of the country you'd realize that anytime government is involved things don't go as quickly as you might envision. These are the realities of life and even with the promise of Wi-Fi there are NO car radios being manufactured or any on the horizon. HD is here and will not go away. When your dream of Wi-Fi becomes a reality there will be NO stations to DX anyway. In the meantime broadcasters will do what they need to do to survive.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

> The difference being that we realize that our need to DX is a luxury that is of no importance in the scheme of things. This gentleman is one of a very small handful of
> people who live a great distance from any broadcaster.

Uh - when is the last time you looked at a map of the US? At least 20% of the population of the United States is rural - that works out to 60 million people. Hardly a "handful". For these people, it is DX or nothing!

> The population density in his area apparently can't support a local station and so his only choice for FREE radio is to get his news & entertainment from deep fringe
> radio stations.

Deep fringe which IBOC will soon make IMPOSSIBLE.

> but your "hobby" isn't more important than the livelyhood of the broadcast industry or improved sound & service for the vast majority of citizens who only want to listen
> to their local radio station.

So - lets let big city stations increase their profit margins by a tiny percent, while simultaneously eliminating free radio for 60 million Americans. Sounds fair to me - big city AM talkers have stereo musical beds and stereo commercials, all those 60 million rural listeners get jammed. 240 million people telling 60 million you can do without free radio. Sounds like a Democracy to me! Only one problem - we live in a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY. Only half of Congress is population based. Every one of those rural Western states has two Senators in the UPPER house of Congress. And those 60 million rural listeners are going to be mad as hell when their radios are jammed - they WILL complain and they WILL vote.

> HD is here and will not go away.

It will go away, just like AM stereo did. The FCC won't force it to be in radios like they did text for the deaf in TVs, people will buy cheaper radios without it, and stations broadcasting it will be left with an orphan technology, just like C-Quam. Yeah - there will be adopters for HD-2 formats, but my local station put up a sample of what their HD-2 stream would sound like, and it was in MONO. Sorry - I'm not buying a radio that costs hundreds of dollars for low bit rate mono.

And given the fact that most people throw away FM dipoles or at best leave them crumpled on the floor - they will NEVER even hear HD. They will think they are because they bought the radio, the HD will never click in because the dipole isn't used properly, they will not be able to access the HD-2 and 3 channels and won't have a clue why - after all its an HD radio, right? Oh wait - you have to become a - DX'er - imagine that - you have to learn about FM dipoles and medium fringe reception. So - IBOC advocates really want EVERYBODY to become DX'ers in a sense so they can recover the signal. Right?!

 

[jras20]

I didnt want this thread to go in this direction, I gues I should of just emailed someone unstead of posting. Sorry.

 

[autopaint-1]

"I didnt want this thread to go in this direction, I gues I should of just emailed someone unstead of posting. Sorry."

No reason to apologize. You did nothing wrong. This is the correct forum for these type of disussions. I hope I've been helpfull in answering some of your questions in this area. There will always be people intent on belittling this technology for their own benefit. Hopefully we can answer honest questions for those people who truly are interested in making the proper decision for their own circumstances.

 

[IBOCRocks]

I didnt want this thread to go in this direction, I gues I should of just emailed someone unstead of posting. Sorry.

I concur with Autopaint. No need to apologize...there are some people who forget what a discussion forum is about and instead use this as a bully pulpit to shout their message.

 

[jras20]

I didnt want this thread to go in this direction, I gues I should of just emailed someone unstead of posting. Sorry.

I concur with Autopaint. No need to apologize...there are some people who forget what a discussion forum is about and instead use this as a bully pulpit to shout their message.

Yes and thank you both for great infomation it helped me out a lot!

 

[davideduardo]

Uh - when is the last time you looked at a map of the US? At least 20% of the population of the United States is rural - that works out to 60 million people. Hardly a "handful". For these people, it is DX or nothing!

The falacy of this argument is that you are liekly talking about AM.

I think this because the listening to FM, even in more rural areas, is not likely to be impeded. The station density is low, and if one is far from any local, the signals that are listenable anyway will not be covered by HD sideband digital noise.

So, if I assume correctly, you are adressing AM.

News flash: younger people, rural or urban, don't listen. They don't listen in droves. Even looking at rural counties not part of metros, the don't listen. Like the bigger cities, less than 10% of listening to the radio is to AM in under-45 (12-45). And listening to AM at night is lower than in the daytime, probably because so few Ameerican AMs have decent night signals.

Most of these AM arguments are based on night skywave. Wonderful. People just to not listen to a lot of AM at night, and even less listen to skywave. I suspect that some want to make AM into the electronic equvalent of the snail darter... but the fact that stations have to attract listeners to sell advertising means that unless AM finds a new way to get some under-55 listeners, it will be dead in less than a decade.

 

[pullitin]

JRAS20 WROTE: "I can even pull in Lake Charles nearly all the time, thats a 225 mile pickup! I'll be also intersted in seeing how sensitive those radios will be."

I'm sorry. Listening to a radio station at 225 miles makes you a "DXer". HD Radio people hate DXers and think DXers are selfish sub-humans who should no longer be allowed to listen at those distances.

David Eduardo insists that everybody only listens to a signal that is so strong that all you really need is a toaster or properly-tuned dental fillings. He says Arbitron backs him up and is completely accurate. People who fill out those diaries always follow the instructions to-the-letter and never waiver. He also says nobody listens to radio at long distances, so perhaps you are making up all of this stuff about living out in the country.

HAHAHA DUDE, I ALMOST FELL OVER MY CHAIR WHEN I READ THIS, THIS MEANS THAT RADIOSHACK MUST BE BRAKING THE LAW THEN? HAHA, DUDE, THAT IS FUNNY AS SH**!!!

 

[IBOCRocks]

JRAS20 WROTE: "I can even pull in Lake Charles nearly all the time, thats a 225 mile pickup! I'll be also intersted in seeing how sensitive those radios will be."

I'm sorry. Listening to a radio station at 225 miles makes you a "DXer". HD Radio people hate DXers and think DXers are selfish sub-humans who should no longer be allowed to listen at those distances.

David Eduardo insists that everybody only listens to a signal that is so strong that all you really need is a toaster or properly-tuned dental fillings. He says Arbitron backs him up and is completely accurate. People who fill out those diaries always follow the instructions to-the-letter and never waiver. He also says nobody listens to radio at long distances, so perhaps you are making up all of this stuff about living out in the country.

HAHAHA DUDE, I ALMOST FELL OVER MY CHAIR WHEN I READ THIS, THIS MEANS THAT RADIOSHACK MUST BE BRAKING THE LAW THEN? HAHA, DUDE, THAT IS FUNNY AS SH**!!!

Dude. Can I have some of whatever you're on??

;D

 

[pullitin]

OK I AM A DXER HINTS THE NAME PULL IT IN, I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A LONG TIME. AND FUNNY AS SH*T!! TELL SAYNO AND THE REST WHEN THEY GET OUT OF SCHOOL, DONT START WITH ME, BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER WIN!!

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

pullitout wrote: "OK I AM A DXER HINTS THE NAME PULL IT IN, I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A LONG TIME. AND FUNNY AS SH*T!! TELL SAYNO AND THE REST WHEN THEY GET OUT OF SCHOOL, DONT START WITH ME, BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER WIN!!"

Remember Seinfeld - "he took it out !"

 

[pullitin]

pullitout wrote: "OK I AM A DXER HINTS THE NAME PULL IT IN, I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR A LONG TIME. AND FUNNY AS SH*T!! TELL SAYNO AND THE REST WHEN THEY GET OUT OF SCHOOL, DONT START WITH ME, BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER WIN!!"

Remember Seinfeld - "he took it out !"

DUDE YOU ARE FUNNY!!!!! :

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

David wrote: "News flash: younger people, rural or urban, don't listen. They don't listen in droves. Even looking at rural counties not part of metros, the don't listen. Like the bigger cities, less than 10% of listening to the radio is to AM in under-45 (12-45). And listening to AM at night is lower than in the daytime, probably because so few Ameerican AMs have decent night signals.

Most of these AM arguments are based on night skywave. Wonderful. People just to not listen to a lot of AM at night, and even less listen to skywave. I suspect that some want to make AM into the electronic equvalent of the snail darter... but the fact that stations have to attract listeners to sell advertising means that unless AM finds a new way to get some under-55 listeners, it will be dead in less than a decade. "

No, I have read that there are many nighttime AM listeners - this is the same lame argument that the iBiquity CEO has been quoted saying. This is all to the effect of promoting IBOC, with its poor propagation properties, so nighttime listerners are just discounted - garbage !

 

[davideduardo]

No, I have read that there are many nighttime AM listeners - this is the same lame argument that the iBiquity CEO has been quoted saying. This is all to the effect of promoting IBOC, with its poor propagation properties, so nighttime listerners are just discounted - garbage !

You have read?

I averaged ratings data over several books and several markets (all top 10). Out of 100 shares at night, 7 to midnight, in persons 12 to 44, AM has just under a 9 share, and FM just over 91 shares. The real issue is that AM is almost irrelevant under 45, and even less at night. All radio has less than 30% of the listening at night than they do 6 AM to 7 PM. Very little revenue comes from nights.

 

[SayNoToIBOC]

This is the same dribble, as used by the iBiquity CEO, to justify poor IBOC coverage. Yea, and most listeners would be over 45, but you didn't put it that way - smart !

 

[Chuck]

I averaged ratings data over several books and several markets (all top 10). Out of 100 shares at night, 7 to midnight, in persons 12 to 44, AM has just under a 9 share, and FM just over 91 shares. The real issue is that AM is almost irrelevant under 45, and even less at night. All radio has less than 30% of the listening at night than they do 6 AM to 7 PM. Very little revenue comes from nights.

At least, percentage wise, very few people listen to radio at night. As far as I can tell, that is a fact. It is also true that AM stations, for the most part, score very low in most ratings reports, even during daytime hours. There are some major exceptions, but they are more unusual than not.

Recently, NAB petitioned the FCC to allow small AM stations to use translators on the FM band to supplement their coverage. My experience is a 1000 watt AM station has roughly the same coverage as a 250 watt FM translator. The fact that NAB is behind this, says a lot. Funny, they are the same guys who convinced Congress that 100 watt LPFM stations would cause "unacceptable interference." A 250 watt translator doesn’t? Well, I guess that’s for another discussion.

I think this is an attempt to cover two bases. First, I think that it is an admission that AM is pretty well dead, at least for small stations. Secondly, I think it is an admission that IBOC will not save it, and that it is unlikely that IBOC will even work at night on AM. Why else would they be working hard to move small AMs to the FM band?

I suspect this casual observation should get some discussion going....